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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
|---|---|
| Extended terror limits proposed | Extended terror limits proposed |
| (9 minutes later) | |
| New proposals to extend the period that terror suspects can be detained without charge are being planned by ministers. | New proposals to extend the period that terror suspects can be detained without charge are being planned by ministers. |
| They would allow detention for up to 58 days - but with a range of safeguards designed to win over critics. | They would allow detention for up to 58 days - but with a range of safeguards designed to win over critics. |
| These safeguards include time-limiting the powers, and giving MPs and judges enhanced scrutiny over their use. | These safeguards include time-limiting the powers, and giving MPs and judges enhanced scrutiny over their use. |
| David Davis, for the Tories, said there was "not an ounce" of evidence for a plan which amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency". | David Davis, for the Tories, said there was "not an ounce" of evidence for a plan which amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency". |
| Stepped up | Stepped up |
| Terror suspects can currently be detained by police without charge for 28 days, but ministers and the government's overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, say the complexity of plots mean longer may be needed in future. | Terror suspects can currently be detained by police without charge for 28 days, but ministers and the government's overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, say the complexity of plots mean longer may be needed in future. |
| Ministers hope to move the debate on from the issue of the number of days BBC political editor Nick Robinson class="" href="http://blogs.bbc.co.uk/nickrobinson/2007/11/extended_detent.html">Read Nick's thoughts in full But opposition parties, some Labour MPs and civil liberty groups say they have yet to see evidence that the 28 day limit - brought in two years ago - is not long enough. | |
| Mr Brown has said he wants consensus on terror law changes - and the idea of allowing post-charge questioning and the use of intercept evidence in terror cases has gained opposition support. | Mr Brown has said he wants consensus on terror law changes - and the idea of allowing post-charge questioning and the use of intercept evidence in terror cases has gained opposition support. |
| Mr Davis, for the Conservatives, said those changes would make any extension to the 28 day limit even less necessary. | Mr Davis, for the Conservatives, said those changes would make any extension to the 28 day limit even less necessary. |
| He also said there were already powers to call a state of emergency, which would allow people to be detained without charge for 30 days on top of the 28 days. | He also said there were already powers to call a state of emergency, which would allow people to be detained without charge for 30 days on top of the 28 days. |
| 'Permanent' emergency | 'Permanent' emergency |
| But it appears that Mr Brown's plan is to bring in similar emergency powers but without having to declare a state of emergency. | But it appears that Mr Brown's plan is to bring in similar emergency powers but without having to declare a state of emergency. |
| Ministers are hoping to win over opponents by arguing that as the emergency power already exists to extend detention to 58 days, they are merely proposing safeguards to allow it to be done without needing a full emergency to be declared. | Ministers are hoping to win over opponents by arguing that as the emergency power already exists to extend detention to 58 days, they are merely proposing safeguards to allow it to be done without needing a full emergency to be declared. |
| But Mr Davis rejected the proposals, saying the Conservatives could not support what amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency". | But Mr Davis rejected the proposals, saying the Conservatives could not support what amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency". |
| If there were exceptional circumstances, such as a large number of simultaneous terror plots being probed by police, the Conservatives would back the use of temporary emergency powers under civil contingency laws to detain suspects. | If there were exceptional circumstances, such as a large number of simultaneous terror plots being probed by police, the Conservatives would back the use of temporary emergency powers under civil contingency laws to detain suspects. |
| 'Evidence' | 'Evidence' |
| He also criticised security minister Lord West, who appeared to change his mind on extending detention after a meeting with Gordon Brown on Wednesday. | He also criticised security minister Lord West, who appeared to change his mind on extending detention after a meeting with Gordon Brown on Wednesday. |
| Mr Davis said the peer's "grovelling retraction" showed the issue was about political considerations rather than genuine security needs. | Mr Davis said the peer's "grovelling retraction" showed the issue was about political considerations rather than genuine security needs. |
| Lord West's apparent change of stance - he said he had merely got his words wrong initially - was called "Keystone Cop" politics by the Lib Dems. | Lord West's apparent change of stance - he said he had merely got his words wrong initially - was called "Keystone Cop" politics by the Lib Dems. |
| And David Winnick, a Labour MP opposed to any extension, told Today that he had not been persuaded to back the proposals, despite the outlined safeguards. | And David Winnick, a Labour MP opposed to any extension, told Today that he had not been persuaded to back the proposals, despite the outlined safeguards. |
| Ministers and the government appointed overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, have all said they believe the 28 day limit will need to be extended because of the growing complexity of cases being investigated. | Ministers and the government appointed overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, have all said they believe the 28 day limit will need to be extended because of the growing complexity of cases being investigated. |
| The issue of how long terror suspects can be detained without charge led to Tony Blair's first Commons defeat as prime minister, when he sought to increase the limit to 90 days. | The issue of how long terror suspects can be detained without charge led to Tony Blair's first Commons defeat as prime minister, when he sought to increase the limit to 90 days. |