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Extended terror limits proposed Extended terror limits proposed
(about 1 hour later)
New proposals to extend the period that terrorist suspects can be detained without charge are to be unveiled by ministers, the BBC has learned. New proposals to extend the period that terror suspects can be detained without charge are being planned by ministers.
They would permit detainees to be held for a maximum 58 days - 28 as now, plus 30 extra under emergency powers laws. They would allow detention for up to 58 days - but with a range of safeguards designed to win over critics.
Tories, Lib Dems and some Labour MPs are expected to oppose the plans. These safeguards include time-limiting the powers, and giving MPs and judges enhanced scrutiny over their use.
Shadow home secretary David Davis said there was "not an ounce" of evidence for a plan which seemed to be driven by political rather than security needs. David Davis, for the Tories, said there was "not an ounce" of evidence for a plan which amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency".
BBC political editor Nick Robinson said the government would offer safeguards as they seek to win over opponents.
These would include time-limiting the powers so that they might only last a matter of months, rather than years.
Stepped upStepped up
They would also be subject to both judicial and Parliamentary review. Terror suspects can currently be detained by police without charge for 28 days, but ministers and the government's overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, say the complexity of plots mean longer may be needed in future.
Although current emergency powers already allowed for a 30-day extension, the government wants the ability to lengthen detention in certain cases without having to declare a state of emergency, it is understood. But opposition parties, some Labour MPs and civil liberty groups say they have yet to see evidence that the 28 day limit - brought in two years ago - is not long enough.
The issue of how long terror suspects can be detained without charge was one which led to Tony Blair's first defeat as prime minister, when he sought to increase the limit to 90 days. Mr Brown has said he wants consensus on terror law changes - and the idea of allowing post-charge questioning and the use of intercept evidence in terror cases has gained opposition support.
And it appears that the caveats being proposed are intended to find a formula where Gordon Brown could avoid defeat if increasing the 28 day limit was put to a vote in the Commons. Mr Davis, for the Conservatives, said those changes would make any extension to the 28 day limit even less necessary.
Mr Davis told BBC Radio 4's Today that the Conservatives had been "bending over backwards" to reach agreement on terror detention and that there was "no evidence whatsoever" for extending it beyond 28 days. He also said there were already powers to call a state of emergency, which would allow people to be detained without charge for 30 days on top of the 28 days.
He said if there were exceptional circumstances, such as a large number of simultaneous plots being probed, his party would back the government using temporary emergency powers under civil contingency laws to detain people. 'Permanent' emergency
Instead, he said, the government was wanting powers which amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency". But it appears that Mr Brown's plan is to bring in similar emergency powers but without having to declare a state of emergency.
Ministers are hoping to win over opponents by arguing that as the emergency power already exists to extend detention to 58 days, they are merely proposing safeguards to allow it to be done without needing a full emergency to be declared.
But Mr Davis rejected the proposals, saying the Conservatives could not support what amounted to a "permanent undeclared state of emergency".
If there were exceptional circumstances, such as a large number of simultaneous terror plots being probed by police, the Conservatives would back the use of temporary emergency powers under civil contingency laws to detain suspects.
'Evidence''Evidence'
And he said security minister Lord West's "grovelling retraction" on extending the terror detention limit on Wednesday morning, after a meeting with Gordon Brown, showed the issue was about political considerations rather than genuine security needs. He also criticised security minister Lord West, who appeared to change his mind on extending detention after a meeting with Gordon Brown on Wednesday.
Lord West's apparent change of mind - he said he had merely got his words wrong initially - was called "Keystone Cop" politics by the Lib Dems. Mr Davis said the peer's "grovelling retraction" showed the issue was about political considerations rather than genuine security needs.
Lord West's apparent change of stance - he said he had merely got his words wrong initially - was called "Keystone Cop" politics by the Lib Dems.
And David Winnick, a Labour MP opposed to any extension, told Today that he had not been persuaded to back the proposals, despite the outlined safeguards.And David Winnick, a Labour MP opposed to any extension, told Today that he had not been persuaded to back the proposals, despite the outlined safeguards.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he is determined to build a consensus on extending the limit beyond the current maximum of 28 days.
Ministers and the government appointed overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, have all said they believe the 28 day limit will need to be extended because of the growing complexity of cases being investigated.Ministers and the government appointed overseer of terror laws, Lord Carlile, have all said they believe the 28 day limit will need to be extended because of the growing complexity of cases being investigated.
The issue of how long terror suspects can be detained without charge led to Tony Blair's first Commons defeat as prime minister, when he sought to increase the limit to 90 days.