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Peers to battle over 42-day plan Falconer criticises 42-day plan
(40 minutes later)
Tony Blair's former attorney general and Lord Chancellor are set to lead the charge against plans to extend the time terror suspects can be held to 42 days. A former lord chancellor is leading the charge against plans to extend the time terror suspects can be held to 42 days.
Lord Goldsmith and Lord Falconer are expected to attack the proposals during a debate on the Counter Terrorism Bill, which peers have begun. Lord Falconer told peers there was "absolutely no advantage" in the plan, part of the Counter Terrorism Bill.
The House of Lords is widely expected to block the plan, which passed through the Commons by just nine votes in June.The House of Lords is widely expected to block the plan, which passed through the Commons by just nine votes in June.
A rebellion by Labour MPs meant it passed only thanks to DUP MPs' backing. Former attorney general Lord Goldsmith and former security chief Dame Mannigham-Buller are also expected to speak out against the plan.
The government wants to extend the maximum period a terror suspect can be detained without charge from 28 to 42 days. The government wants to extend the maximum period a terror suspect can be detained without charge from 28 to 42 days - it says this is needed to deal with increasingly complex plots.
It says this is needed to deal with increasingly complex plots. 'Ridiculous'
But a rebellion by Labour MPs in the Commons meant the measure was passed only thanks to DUP MPs' backing.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown's plan looks set to face an even tougher battle in the Lords, where the combined total of Tory and Lib Dem peers heavily outnumber Labour members.Prime Minister Gordon Brown's plan looks set to face an even tougher battle in the Lords, where the combined total of Tory and Lib Dem peers heavily outnumber Labour members.
'More ruthless' We face an unprecedented terrorist threat Security Minister Lord West
Opening the debate, Security Minister Lord West said: "We face an unprecedented terrorist threat... There's a clear and present danger to our population." Lord Falconer said he would oppose the plans "root and branch".
He told peers: "I'm absolutely clear that there's no advantage for fighting terrorism that will be obtained from extending detentions to 42 days."
He added that the extra 14 days available to question suspects and gather evidence would "make no difference" to the police, and that to say so was a "ridiculous assertion".
'Fundamental rights'
For the government, Security Minister Lord West said: "We face an unprecedented terrorist threat... There's a clear and present danger to our population."
He added: "The terrorists we face are more ruthless than those we faced in the past."He added: "The terrorists we face are more ruthless than those we faced in the past."
But shadow security minister Dame Neville-Jones said of the 42-days plan: "It represents yet another attack, on the part of the government, without justification, on fundamental democratic rights and freedoms that have underpinned our society for centuries."But shadow security minister Dame Neville-Jones said of the 42-days plan: "It represents yet another attack, on the part of the government, without justification, on fundamental democratic rights and freedoms that have underpinned our society for centuries."
The crunch debate comes before Thursday's Haltemprice and Howden by-election which was sparked by ex-shadow home secretary David Davis's resignation after the government won the terror detentions vote in the Commons. The debate comes before Thursday's Haltemprice and Howden by-election which was sparked by ex-shadow home secretary David Davis's resignation after the government won the terror detentions vote in the Commons.
Mr Davis said he wanted to stand for re-election on a civil liberties platform.Mr Davis said he wanted to stand for re-election on a civil liberties platform.
This draconian proposal will be defeated in the House of Lords Lord ThomasLiberal DemocratsThis draconian proposal will be defeated in the House of Lords Lord ThomasLiberal Democrats
But neither Labour nor the Liberal Democrats have entered candidates for the contest.But neither Labour nor the Liberal Democrats have entered candidates for the contest.
The Conservatives and Lib Dems say they will try to defeat the 42-day measure when the bill reaches its detailed parliamentary stages, possibly after the long summer recess.The Conservatives and Lib Dems say they will try to defeat the 42-day measure when the bill reaches its detailed parliamentary stages, possibly after the long summer recess.
Lord Goldsmith, who was the legal adviser to Tony Blair's government after the terror attacks on London and in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, is due to speak in the debate and has made no secret of his opposition to the plans.Lord Goldsmith, who was the legal adviser to Tony Blair's government after the terror attacks on London and in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, is due to speak in the debate and has made no secret of his opposition to the plans.
He has said "the case has not been made" to extend the limit on holding terror suspects, and he could not support it.He has said "the case has not been made" to extend the limit on holding terror suspects, and he could not support it.
He also argued that extending the pre-charge limit to 42 days would send a message to Muslims "that we are down on them".He also argued that extending the pre-charge limit to 42 days would send a message to Muslims "that we are down on them".
'Discredited policy''Discredited policy'
Lord Thomas, who speaks on attorney general issues for the Lib Dems, said: "Holding someone without charge for 42 days adds nothing of value to the investigation, prosecution or conviction of terrorists.Lord Thomas, who speaks on attorney general issues for the Lib Dems, said: "Holding someone without charge for 42 days adds nothing of value to the investigation, prosecution or conviction of terrorists.
"The government's proposals do not have serious support amongst senior police officers, ex-government law officers, the director of public prosecutions, the legal profession or, indeed, anyone who knows anything about the criminal justice process."The government's proposals do not have serious support amongst senior police officers, ex-government law officers, the director of public prosecutions, the legal profession or, indeed, anyone who knows anything about the criminal justice process.
"Gordon Brown's clinging to the shreds of his discredited policy in the hope that he can pass off this ineffective and unprincipled stance as somehow 'tough' on terror."Gordon Brown's clinging to the shreds of his discredited policy in the hope that he can pass off this ineffective and unprincipled stance as somehow 'tough' on terror.
"This draconian proposal will be defeated in the House of Lords.""This draconian proposal will be defeated in the House of Lords."
Attempts to extend the terror detention limit to 90 days in 2005 ended in Mr Blair's first Commons defeat as prime minister.Attempts to extend the terror detention limit to 90 days in 2005 ended in Mr Blair's first Commons defeat as prime minister.