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Smith hopeful over 42 days vote Smith hopeful over 42 days vote
(about 2 hours later)
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is hopeful the government will win its bid to extend detention of terror suspects without charge from 28 days to 42 days.Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is hopeful the government will win its bid to extend detention of terror suspects without charge from 28 days to 42 days.
"I hope we've moved to a set of proposals people feel able to support," she told the BBC."I hope we've moved to a set of proposals people feel able to support," she told the BBC.
But it is unclear if the 50 Labour MPs unhappy with the plan have been won over by the concessions offered.But it is unclear if the 50 Labour MPs unhappy with the plan have been won over by the concessions offered.
John Grogan and David Winnick told the BBC they had not. Tory leader David Cameron also questioned the plans. The Conservatives said the concessions were "a deception" while the Lib Dems described one as a "con".
MPs are now studying proposed amendments to the government's Counter Terrorism Bill, which have been published by the Home Office ahead of next week's crucial Commons vote.MPs are now studying proposed amendments to the government's Counter Terrorism Bill, which have been published by the Home Office ahead of next week's crucial Commons vote.
The amendments confirm the three main concessions being offered to opponents in a bid to win them over:The amendments confirm the three main concessions being offered to opponents in a bid to win them over:
  • MPs must vote on whether to grant police the new powers within seven days of an application rather than 30
  • MPs must vote on whether to grant police the new powers within seven days of an application rather than 30
  • The 42 day limit can only be made available in the event of a grave exceptional threat
  • The 42 day limit can only be made available in the event of a grave exceptional threat
  • The time the higher limit is available is reduced from 60 days to 30 days.
  • The time the higher limit is available is reduced from 60 days to 30 days.
    • Police minister Tony McNulty described the amendments as a "stronger, more focused package" than that contained in the original proposals. Police minister Tony McNulty described the amendments as a "stronger, more focused package" that, he was confident, would win over MPs from all sides.
    And he told the BBC News Channel he was confident it would win over MPs from all sides. We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan Labour MP class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/7432563.stm">Labour rebel watch class="" href="/1/hi/uk_politics/7193910.stm">Q&A: Preventing extremism class="" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/">Nick Robinson's blog
    We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan Labour MP Labour rebel watchQ&A: Preventing extremism
    He rejected suggestions the government's main aim was to save Prime Minister Gordon Brown from a humiliating Commons defeat, saying it was "trying to get good law in this very delicate and serious area."He rejected suggestions the government's main aim was to save Prime Minister Gordon Brown from a humiliating Commons defeat, saying it was "trying to get good law in this very delicate and serious area."
    But Downing Street played down talk that the government was heading for victory.But Downing Street played down talk that the government was heading for victory.
    The prime minister's spokesman said it was "certainly not the case that this vote is in the bag and there is more to do over the days ahead".The prime minister's spokesman said it was "certainly not the case that this vote is in the bag and there is more to do over the days ahead".
    Independent advice
    Ms Smith addressed doubters in a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday evening and in a string of media interviews.Ms Smith addressed doubters in a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday evening and in a string of media interviews.
    She insisted safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in "grave and exceptional" circumstances.She insisted safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in "grave and exceptional" circumstances.
    She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We believe that it is right now to bring into place this reserve power, which won't mean anybody being held longer, but will give us the ability to go and make a case to the judge about a given individual. She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Any home secretary using these powers will want to think very, very carefully about how they are going to explain it to Parliament, whether or not they are going to get parliamentary approval."
    "Any home secretary using these powers will want to think very, very carefully about how they are going to explain it to Parliament, whether or not they are going to get parliamentary approval," she said.
    Independent advice
    MPs will also be given "independent legal advice" about the home secretary's decision "to help to inform that debate".MPs will also be given "independent legal advice" about the home secretary's decision "to help to inform that debate".
    After Labour's meeting all were agreed that the home secretary had put in the performance of her life Nick RobinsonBBC Political Editor Nick Robinson's blog
    Ms Smith said some MPs, understood to be members of the Intelligence and Security Committee, will get confidential briefings on a "privy council basis" about individual cases before the debate takes place.Ms Smith said some MPs, understood to be members of the Intelligence and Security Committee, will get confidential briefings on a "privy council basis" about individual cases before the debate takes place.
    'Attempt to deceive'
    "What I'm concerned about is that we do the right thing for the UK, the right thing for people's rights, and that is that we avoid a terrorist attack as well as the rights that we completely and importantly have to afford to defendants," she said."What I'm concerned about is that we do the right thing for the UK, the right thing for people's rights, and that is that we avoid a terrorist attack as well as the rights that we completely and importantly have to afford to defendants," she said.
    "Finding that balance is a difficult job: that's why we've been talking about it for so long.""Finding that balance is a difficult job: that's why we've been talking about it for so long."
    Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran had planned to vote against the government, but said he had now changed his mind. But the Liberal Democrats' Chris Huhne said his party would continue to oppose the plans "tooth and nail".
    He said the "ground is shifting" and although a hard-core of rebels would not be moved, "those in the middle who have had doubts will have heard a lot [from Jacqui Smith] that will have satisfied them". He said: "Jacqui Smith's so-called key concession is a con. All she has to do is to tell Parliament that there is a grave and exceptional terrorist threat, and she will be entitled under the proposed amendment to go ahead without even considering whether the proposals are proportionate to the problem."
    'Reluctant support' And shadow home secretary David Davis said the amendments were "a politically driven attempt to deceive Parliament".
    But Labour MP John Grogan said while Ms Smith had made a "powerful speech", he was still not convinced she had made the case on security grounds for extending the 28-day limit. He said: "These amendments are a deception. The home secretary's power to extend the period of detention without charge to 42 days remains as wide as before - and is certainly not confined to a state of emergency."
    He told the BBC: "We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish. Reluctantly, I still can't support the government." Speaking after Monday's meeting, Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran, who had planned to vote against the government, said believed the ground was "shifting" among potential Labour rebels.
    Mr Winnick, said: "I haven't changed my views in anyway whatsoever. I don't believe there's any evidence to go beyond 28 days." But Labour MPs John Grogan and David Winnick were still not convinced the case had been made to extend the 28-day limit.
    Mr Cameron said: "One minute the prime minister says he is standing firm and he's sticking to his guns and the next minute it's headlong retreat and concessions.
    "It's quite hard to work out what the government is doing. If the government really came to us with evidence ... we would engage with them."
    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "The hard politics is very simple: are Labour MPs prepared to defend British civil liberties even if it's at the cost of their own party leader?"
    The vote may hinge on smaller parties such as the DUP, which voted against the government on 90 days but has yet to decide on 42 days and the new package of amendments.The vote may hinge on smaller parties such as the DUP, which voted against the government on 90 days but has yet to decide on 42 days and the new package of amendments.