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Smith hopeful over 42 days vote Smith hopeful over 42 days vote
(40 minutes later)
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is hopeful the government will win its bid to extend detention of terror suspects without charge from 28 days to 42 days.Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says she is hopeful the government will win its bid to extend detention of terror suspects without charge from 28 days to 42 days.
"I hope we've moved to a set of proposals people feel able to support," she told the BBC."I hope we've moved to a set of proposals people feel able to support," she told the BBC.
But it is unclear if the 50 Labour MPs unhappy with the plan have been won over by the concessions offered.But it is unclear if the 50 Labour MPs unhappy with the plan have been won over by the concessions offered.
John Grogan and David Winnick told the BBC they had not. Tory leader David Cameron also questioned the proposals. John Grogan and David Winnick told the BBC they had not. Tory leader David Cameron also questioned the plans.
MPs are now studying proposed amendments to the government's Counter Terrorism Bill, which have been published by the Home Office ahead of next week's crucial Commons vote.
The amendments confirm the three main concessions being offered to opponents in a bid to win them over:
  • MPs must vote on whether to grant police the new powers within seven days of an application rather than 30
  • The 42 day limit can only be made available in the event of a grave exceptional threat
  • The time the higher limit is available is reduced from 60 days to 30 days.
    • Police minister Tony McNulty described the amendments as a "stronger, more focused package" than that contained in the original proposals.
    And he told the BBC News Channel he was confident it would win over MPs from all sides.
    We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan Labour MP Labour rebel watchQ&A: Preventing extremism
    He rejected suggestions the government's main aim was to save Prime Minister Gordon Brown from a humiliating Commons defeat, saying it was "trying to get good law in this very delicate and serious area."
    But Downing Street played down talk that the government was heading for victory.
    The prime minister's spokesman said it was "certainly not the case that this vote is in the bag and there is more to do over the days ahead".The prime minister's spokesman said it was "certainly not the case that this vote is in the bag and there is more to do over the days ahead".
    He added that the government was "confident of its arguments", but that some reports about winning over MPs were "ahead of the game".
    'Exceptional'
    Ms Smith addressed doubters in a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday evening and in a string of media interviews.Ms Smith addressed doubters in a meeting of Labour MPs on Monday evening and in a string of media interviews.
    She insisted safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in "grave and exceptional" circumstances.She insisted safeguards would ensure the proposed 42-day limit would be used only in "grave and exceptional" circumstances.
    She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We believe that it is right now to bring into place this reserve power, which won't mean anybody being held longer, but will give us the ability to go and make a case to the judge about a given individual.She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We believe that it is right now to bring into place this reserve power, which won't mean anybody being held longer, but will give us the ability to go and make a case to the judge about a given individual.
    We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish John Grogan Labour MP Labour rebel watchQ&A: Preventing extremism
    "Any home secretary using these powers will want to think very, very carefully about how they are going to explain it to Parliament, whether or not they are going to get parliamentary approval," she said."Any home secretary using these powers will want to think very, very carefully about how they are going to explain it to Parliament, whether or not they are going to get parliamentary approval," she said.
    MPs may also be given "independent legal advice" about the home secretary's decision "to help to inform that debate". Independent advice
    She said some MPs, understood to be members of the Intelligence and Security Committee, will get confidential briefings on a "privy council basis" about individual cases before the debate takes place. MPs will also be given "independent legal advice" about the home secretary's decision "to help to inform that debate".
    After Labour's meeting all were agreed that the home secretary had put in the performance of her life Nick RobinsonBBC Political Editor Nick Robinson's blog
    Ms Smith said some MPs, understood to be members of the Intelligence and Security Committee, will get confidential briefings on a "privy council basis" about individual cases before the debate takes place.
    "What I'm concerned about is that we do the right thing for the UK, the right thing for people's rights, and that is that we avoid a terrorist attack as well as the rights that we completely and importantly have to afford to defendants," she said."What I'm concerned about is that we do the right thing for the UK, the right thing for people's rights, and that is that we avoid a terrorist attack as well as the rights that we completely and importantly have to afford to defendants," she said.
    'Lot of work to do'
    "Finding that balance is a difficult job: that's why we've been talking about it for so long.""Finding that balance is a difficult job: that's why we've been talking about it for so long."
    After Labour's meeting all were agreed that the home secretary had put in the performance of her life Nick RobinsonBBC Political Editor Nick Robinson's blog
    A number of Conservatives, Lib Dems and dozens of Labour MPs remain opposed to the plans.
    But police minister Tony McNulty said he now believed a vote in the Commons next week could be won in the wake of Ms Smith's pledges.
    Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran had planned to vote against the government, but said he had now changed his mind.Aberdeen North MP Frank Doran had planned to vote against the government, but said he had now changed his mind.
    He said the "ground is shifting" and although a hard-core of rebels would not be moved, "those in the middle who have had doubts will have heard a lot [from Jacqui Smith] that will have satisfied them".He said the "ground is shifting" and although a hard-core of rebels would not be moved, "those in the middle who have had doubts will have heard a lot [from Jacqui Smith] that will have satisfied them".
    'Reluctant support'
    But Labour MP John Grogan said while Ms Smith had made a "powerful speech", he was still not convinced she had made the case on security grounds for extending the 28-day limit.But Labour MP John Grogan said while Ms Smith had made a "powerful speech", he was still not convinced she had made the case on security grounds for extending the 28-day limit.
    He told the BBC: "We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish. Reluctantly, I still can't support the government."He told the BBC: "We should not give up lightly liberties which have taken centuries to establish. Reluctantly, I still can't support the government."
    Mr Winnick, said: "I haven't changed my views in anyway whatsoever. I don't believe there's any evidence to go beyond 28 days."Mr Winnick, said: "I haven't changed my views in anyway whatsoever. I don't believe there's any evidence to go beyond 28 days."
    Other concessions are likely to include an earlier Parliamentary vote on any decision to allow a terror suspect to be held for 42 days, a shorter period in which the powers could be used, and a tight definition of the circumstances in which they could be implemented. Mr Cameron said: "One minute the prime minister says he is standing firm and he's sticking to his guns and the next minute it's headlong retreat and concessions.
    Currently terrorist suspects can be held for up to 28 days before they have to be charged or released without charge. "It's quite hard to work out what the government is doing. If the government really came to us with evidence ... we would engage with them."
    The concessions are expected to be outlined in the form of amendments to the Counter-Terrorism Bill. MPs are to vote on the proposals next week.
    Writing in Tuesday's Daily Telegraph, Former Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Peter Clarke, said the 28-day limit would "undoubtedly" soon be insufficient and criticised the politicisation of the debate over the issue.
    For the Conservatives, leader David Cameron said: "One minute the prime minister says he is standing firm and he's sticking to his guns and the next minute it's headlong retreat and concessions.
    "It's quite hard to work out what the government is doing. If the Government really came to us with evidence ... we would engage with them."
    He told BBC Radio 4's The World At One that he was not playing politics with the issue and the Opposition would "always do what is right".
    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "The hard politics is very simple: are Labour MPs prepared to defend British civil liberties even if it's at the cost of their own party leader?"Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "The hard politics is very simple: are Labour MPs prepared to defend British civil liberties even if it's at the cost of their own party leader?"
    The vote may hinge on smaller parties such as the DUP, which voted against the government on 90 days but has yet to decide on 42 days and the new package of amendments.