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Democratic debate: Sanders and Clinton take the gloves off in Brooklyn – live Democratic debate: Clinton and Sanders take the gloves off in Brooklyn – live
(35 minutes later)
4.19am BST
04:19
Here’s a point of agreement among observers reviewing the night: naming states they have won is not an effective tactic for the candidates.
Can't believe all of this towel snapping on both sides about who has won what impresses many people watching.#demdebate
DONT LIST STATES pic.twitter.com/jVkjxofgvH
And some folks just appreciate a broad Brooklyn accent:
"Yunguh". Bernie makes me laugh.
"We got muhduhed dere," Sanders says of the deep south.
4.08am BST
04:08
Closing statements
Sanders: I grew up in Brooklyn, the son of a penniless immigrant, a proud American. This country gave opportunity. This country has enormous potential if we have the guts to take on Big Money. I disagree with Clinton that you can take money from Wall Street and Super Pacs and then turn around and do what has to be done. If we stand together and not let Trumps of the world divide us we can provide health care, education, clean energy, financial hygiene, fair taxation. Stand up, fight back! Political revolution. Clap clap clap cheer cheer cheer. Bernie! Bernie! chant.
Clinton: I’m grateful I was NY senator. “You took a chance on me and reelected me.” We worked closely together. We took on the challenges of 9/11. We got the money to rebuild New York. Aided first responders construction workers and others who endangered their own health. We created jobs despite George W Bush. We stood up to powerful interests. I’m asking for your support to continue that work together. Knock down the barriers. Not just economic barriers. Racial, gender, homophobic, disability. I am humbly asking for your support. We won’t just make promises, we’ll deliver results! Cheer cheer, clap clap clap. No chanting though.
That’s a wrap. Let’s hear it!
4.03am BST
04:03
Mona Chalabi
The number of Americans who do not identify as Republican or Democrat is at an all-time high – which might explain why the crowd erupted in cheers when Sanders mentioned independents. In January 2016, polling from Gallup showed 42% of respondents identify as independents, 29% as Democrats and 26% as Republicans.
4.00am BST
04:00
Continuing on the electability question: Sanders says young people support him because he’s clearly not beholden to special interests.
And Wolf Blitzer cuts them off.
Final pitches are next.
Last commercial break.
Who won it? Who said it best? Who showed the most New York values up there?
3.57am BST
03:57
Sanders: 'we got murdered' in the deep South
Clinton makes a case for her electability. She says she has 2.3m more votes than senator Sanders and 1.4m more votes than Donald Trump. She says she has a broad-based inclusive coalition across the country and across every race. She says she can “defeat whoever the Republicans end up nominating.”
She says she’s glad young people are involved in politics. “But let me also say... it’s going to be important that we unify the Democratic party when the nomination process has been completed.” She says she knows all about it, referring to 2008.
Dana Bash fights for the mic.
There are three months till the convention. Will you take the fight to the floor if no one has a majority of pledged delegates?
“I think we’re going to win this nomination, to tell you the truth,” Sanders says.
“Senator Clinton cleaned our clock in the deep south. We got murdered there... but you know what, we’re out of the deep South now.... I believe that we’re gonna win this nomination, and I believe that we’re going to obliterate Donald Trump or whoever the nominee is.”
Again folks, the reason Sanders lost in the south is because Clinton does well among black voters. It's not about conservatism.
Clinton says that she has a lead in pledged delegates too, wider than Obama’s over her was. Then she names eight states outside the south she won. “We are very confident and optimistic,” she says, but she’s not taking anything for granted. “I’m going to work.” she names the next six states.
Updated
at 4.05am BST
3.52am BST
03:52
Breaking: NY Post endorses Donald Trump
The Daily New endorsed Clinton. Now the Post endorses Trump:
The Post endorses Donald Trump https://t.co/bGIxG1DnZO pic.twitter.com/1lC8E4Xi89
What’s their reasoning? We haven’t had time to read it.
3.50am BST
03:50
Sanders says he has a 100% pro-choice voting record. He says he’ll take on GOP governors trying to restrict a woman’s right to choose and who are discriminating against the LGBT community. He says he would expand funding for Planned Parenthood.
Now the narrators claw back the discussion to questions they want to ask.
One for Sanders: Are you a Democrat?
“Why would I be running for the Democratic nomination for president?” He says. Then he says he runs better nationally against Trump than Clinton. “There are a whole lot of independents in this country.” He says he can reach them.
3.48am BST
03:48
Clinton is asked about the Merrick Garland nomination to the Supreme Court. She says that the Senate needs to respond.
“It really is an outrage,” Sanders agrees. He talks about 7.5 years of “unbelievable obstructionism” from Republicans.
If elected president, Sanders says, Obama should withdraw the nomination, because we need a justice who will make it crystalclear that he or she will vote to overturn Citizens United.
Big applause.
Clinton says the only people she’d appoint are people who believe that Roe v Wade is settled law and Citizen’s United is overturned.
On that topic...
Clinton says they’ve had eight debates and there has not been one question about a women’s right to choose.
Then she answers the question that has not been asked. She hits Donald Trump by name. “Our rights, our autonomy.”
3.45am BST
03:45
Mona Chalabi
Bernie’s comments expressing criticism of Israeli defense policy may prove politically costly. Although the crowd in New York expressed cheers, national opinion polling suggests that more Americans sympathize with Israel than the Palestinians, writes Mona Chalabi.
In March 2015, a Pew Research Center study found that 31% of US respondents sympathized with Israel a lot in its dispute with the Palestinians while just 11% sympathize a great deal with the Palestinians.
Those attitudes look very different however depending on an individual’s political identification. Sanders is no doubt resonating with the more left of center strand of Democrat supporters given that 68% of liberal Democrats have at least some sympathy for the Palestinians compared to just 45% of individuals who describe themselves as conservative or moderate Democrats.
Updated
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3.45am BST
03:45
Around in circles on Social Security
Clinton is asked whether she would lift the cap on taxable income that pays into social security, as a way of expanding the social program.
I am going to make the wealthy pay more into social security, she says. But the exact method is unstipulated. Maybe it’s a tax on passive income.
Interesting concept but you didn’t answer the question, Sanders says.
I did! Clinton says. “I did answer the question!”
“Your answer has been the same year after year,” Sanders says. Why not say whether you’ll lift the cap on taxable income?
“We are in vigorous agreement here, senator,” Clinton. Then she says Republicans regard social security as a Ponzi scheme.
“So you are finally in favor of lifting the cap on taxable income and extending and expanding social security?” Sanders says. “IF that is the case, welcome onboard. I am glad you are here.”
“I’ve said the same thing for years. I didn’t say anything different tonight,” she says.
Sanders says, so I’m confused: would you lift the cap? Yes or no?
“I have said yes,” Clinton said. “We are going to extend the trust fund, we’ve got some good ideas.” She’s noncommital.
Updated
at 3.46am BST
3.39am BST3.39am BST
03:3903:39
Sanders says that Clinton is saying the country does not have the courage to stand up to big money.Sanders says that Clinton is saying the country does not have the courage to stand up to big money.
“How is it that every other major country manages to guarantee health care?” he says. I live 50 miles from Canada. It’s not some kind of communist authoritarian country. They’re doing OK, he says. “How is it that every other major country manages to guarantee health care?” he says. “I live 50 miles from Canada. It’s not some kind of communist authoritarian country. They’re doing OK,” he says.
Clinton says they have the same goal. “I am so much in favor of supporting president Obama’s signature achievement,” Obamacare, she says – instead of “starting over” as Sanders would.Clinton says they have the same goal. “I am so much in favor of supporting president Obama’s signature achievement,” Obamacare, she says – instead of “starting over” as Sanders would.
Updated
at 3.46am BST
3.39am BST3.39am BST
03:3903:39
Lois BeckettLois Beckett
The daughter of the school principal murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, tweeted out a response to Bernie Sanders who, when asked if he owed her and other family members of victims an apology, said he didn’t think he did, writes Lois Beckett.The daughter of the school principal murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, tweeted out a response to Bernie Sanders who, when asked if he owed her and other family members of victims an apology, said he didn’t think he did, writes Lois Beckett.
.@BernieSanders YOU DO OWE AN APOLOGY! Your round about answer was just not good enough!.@BernieSanders YOU DO OWE AN APOLOGY! Your round about answer was just not good enough!
She also criticized the language Sanders used in talking about her mother’s death.She also criticized the language Sanders used in talking about her mother’s death.
Dear @BernieSanders - my mother was NOT cattle - she was NOT "slaughtered". Maybe be a bit more sensitive with you language. <3 #DawnsKidDear @BernieSanders - my mother was NOT cattle - she was NOT "slaughtered". Maybe be a bit more sensitive with you language. <3 #DawnsKid
Sanders defended his support of a federal shield law that makes it more difficult to sue gun manufacturers and dealers over criminal misuse of their guns.Sanders defended his support of a federal shield law that makes it more difficult to sue gun manufacturers and dealers over criminal misuse of their guns.
He noted that some of the families had won a victory in court today in their lawsuit against gun companies who made and sold the gun used in the 2012 school shooting. The victory was a very small and technical one. A Connecticut judge ruled the lawsuit can continue, but the families “still have a very tough road ahead of them” one legal expert said. “They’re still a long way from trial.”He noted that some of the families had won a victory in court today in their lawsuit against gun companies who made and sold the gun used in the 2012 school shooting. The victory was a very small and technical one. A Connecticut judge ruled the lawsuit can continue, but the families “still have a very tough road ahead of them” one legal expert said. “They’re still a long way from trial.”
3.37am BST3.37am BST
03:3703:37
They’re back! Sanders is challenged that his education and health care proposals would be too expensive and bust the budget.They’re back! Sanders is challenged that his education and health care proposals would be too expensive and bust the budget.
He says the last 30 years have seen a massive transfer of wealth. “I am determined to transfer that money back to the working families of this country.”He says the last 30 years have seen a massive transfer of wealth. “I am determined to transfer that money back to the working families of this country.”
Clinton: “I absolutely agree with the diagnosis.” We need to do more to get universal health coverage. We have to make college affordable. But... Sanders’ plan for health care and free college would cost the wrong people too much, she says.Clinton: “I absolutely agree with the diagnosis.” We need to do more to get universal health coverage. We have to make college affordable. But... Sanders’ plan for health care and free college would cost the wrong people too much, she says.
Sanders can’t wait to reply.Sanders can’t wait to reply.
3.32am BST3.32am BST
03:3203:32
Mona ChalabiMona Chalabi
Last year, European members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) contributed $234 billion, writes Mona Chalabi.Last year, European members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) contributed $234 billion, writes Mona Chalabi.
That same year, the US alone contributed $650 billion. Claims that the burden on the US alone are disproportionate clearly have some basis, even if you view contributions as a share of GDP or on a per capita basis.That same year, the US alone contributed $650 billion. Claims that the burden on the US alone are disproportionate clearly have some basis, even if you view contributions as a share of GDP or on a per capita basis.
3.32am BST3.32am BST
03:3203:32
Here’s something to watch during the commercial: Video of Clinton trying to escape the question about her Goldman Sachs transcripts.Here’s something to watch during the commercial: Video of Clinton trying to escape the question about her Goldman Sachs transcripts.
3.31am BST3.31am BST
03:3103:31
Second commercial break. How did that section go? Did Clinton handle the Libya challenge well? Sanders had more room to maneuver on Israel than she did. Neither got much into the Syria question.Second commercial break. How did that section go? Did Clinton handle the Libya challenge well? Sanders had more room to maneuver on Israel than she did. Neither got much into the Syria question.
3.30am BST3.30am BST
03:3003:30
Sanders is just needling Clinton on Israel, exposing her unwillingness to go one inch out onto the limb of anything that might be taken as criticism of Israel.Sanders is just needling Clinton on Israel, exposing her unwillingness to go one inch out onto the limb of anything that might be taken as criticism of Israel.
“There comes a time if we are going to pursue justice and peace that we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time,” Sanders says.“There comes a time if we are going to pursue justice and peace that we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time,” Sanders says.
She replies in the most general of terms: “Nobody is saying that any individual leader is always right but it is a difficult position.”She replies in the most general of terms: “Nobody is saying that any individual leader is always right but it is a difficult position.”
3.26am BST
03:26
Clinton takes the question. She says she negotiated the 2012 ceasefire with Hamas and Israel, Egypt, the Palestinian leadership and Arab league.
Israel does not seek this kind of constant attack, she says. “After they had taken these assaults... I don’t know how you run a country when you are under constant threat. Terrorist attack, rockets... you have a right to defend yourself.”
That does not mean that we should not continue to do everything we can to work toward a two-state solution.
She says Yassir Arafat blew a chance at a Palestinian state in negotiations under president Clinton with Ehud Barak. She says there could have been a Palestinian state for 15 years.
Sanders challenges her to answer the “disproportionate” question. She says yes she’ll answer: Hamas dresses like civilians and Gaza is “a terrorist haven that is getting more and more rockets shipped in.”
Sanders said that Clinton’s speech to Aipac did not mention the needs of the Palestinian people. He says there will never peace without an evenhanded role by the United States.
Most substantive debate on Israel/Palestine of the election cycle so far.
3.21am BST
03:21
Sanders; 'treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity'
On to Israel. Sanders has called the Israeli response in the 2014 war in Gaza “disproportionate.”
Does he stand by that?
He does.
“Of course Israel has a right not only to defend themselves but to live in peace and security,” he says, as someone who’s lived there.
“I do believe that. Israel... has every right to destroy terrorism. But in Gaza there were 10,000 wounded civilians and 1,500 killed. Was that a disproportionate attack? The answer is I believe it was. As somebody who is 100% pro-Israel. In the long run, if we are ever going to bring peace... we are going to have to treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity.”
Updated
at 3.21am BST
3.19am BST
03:19
Clinton stands by her support for a no-fly zone in Syria and accurately says she supported arming the Syria opposition when Obama opposed it.
Sanders is asked about participation in Nato. He says that France provides health care and education and so does England. “I do believe that the countries of Europe should pick up more of a burden for their defense.”
“You gotta ask Trump. All I can tell you is with a huge deficit... yeah, I do think... European countries [who are doin pretty well}.. you know what, you take your own share of the defense burden.”
Clinton ages. Nato allies are required to pay more and they should, she says. But the bigger picture is the durability and importance of the alliance. It must be modernized, she says. In part to face terrorism. Yes make them pay more but that doesn’t mean we leave if they don’t.
If they don’t pay, “I will stay in Nato,” Clinton says, and look for solutions. Nato was in Afghanistan after 9/11, she says. That meant a lot. “Let’s not forget what’s really happening, with Russia being more aggressive... think of how much it would cost if Russia’s aggression were not deterred because Nato is not there on the front lines.”
3.16am BST
03:16
Lois Beckett
It’s become normal for the two Democratic candidates to battle over guns in each debate, writes Lois Beckett.
Sanders, who Clinton paints as more pro-gun, has repeatedly touted his low rating from the NRA. But the idea that a Democratic candidate might benefit from focusing on guns is a huge transformation in the American political landscape – especially for Clinton.
For more than a decade, most Democrats on Capitol Hill treated gun policy as the third rail of American politics. Nobody wanted to touch it
President Bill Clinton blamed backlash against the 1994 assault weapons ban for Democrats losing their majority in Congress in the midterm elections. (Whether that is accurate or not is still a matter of debate.)
Today, Obama, whose chief of staff once told his attorney general to “shut the f--- up” about guns, has used his bully pulpit to highlight the goals of the gun control advocacy groups.
And Clinton clearly sees attacks on the gun industry as a winning political strategy.
3.12am BST
03:12
On to national security and foreign affairs. Question for Clinton: Obama recently said not thinking through Libya was a major mistake of his presidency. Is that on you too?
“I think we did a great deal to help the Libyan people after Ghadafi’s demise,” she says, naming two elections and helping set up the government.
But, Clinton says, we did not provide for sufficient security afterwards.
“We can’t walk away from that. We need to be working with European and Arab partners.”
Sanders says that Clinton “led the effort” for regime change in Libya and “this is the same type of thinking” that led us into Iraq.
“We didn’t think thoroughly about what happens the day after... regime change often has unintended consequences.”
Clinton responds, trying to tie Sanders to Obama’s Libya policy: There was a vote in Senate on question of whether to approach UN security council on Libya question, and Sanders voted for it.
Sanders says Clinton made the charge before “and just repeating it doesn’t make it true.” Sanders says the vote in question was a unanimous consent “do you support Libya moving toward democracy?” Of course he did, but that’s not comparable, he says, to her role.
Clinton kind of hangs Libya policy on the president. “At the end of the day, those are the decisions that are made by the president.”
The Bern's inside reaction to the Libya answer .. pic.twitter.com/RR9SyiJtdg
Updated
at 3.13am BST
3.07am BST
03:07
Sanders yells something about what you “don’t do” and “what you do do” and it draws some titters in the hall.
don't say "do do" Bernie
3.05am BST
03:05
Mona Chalabi
American attitudes to climate change contrast with global opinion, as polling data from Pew Research Center shows:
% who say Earth warming due to human activity70 Latino56 Black44 Whitehttps://t.co/GcH5vPl6rE #DemDebate pic.twitter.com/8YOSGM8Yax
3.05am BST
03:05
Former Maryland governor and presidential candidate Martin O’Malley joins the call for Clinton to release her Goldman speech transcripts:
Said this in 2012 about @MittRomney's tax returns, I'll say it today: @HillaryClinton should release the Wall Street transcripts #DemDebate
3.04am BST
03:04
“Here is a real difference,” Sanders says. He accuses Clinton of “incrementalism.” “Those little steps are not enough,” Sanders says. “Not right now, not on climate change.”
He asks her whether she’s in favor of a tax on carbon.
Clinton takes a breath. “I have laid out a set of actions,” she says, and quickly ends up talking about the need for a new supreme court justice.
I don’t take a backseat to your legislation that you’ve introduced that you haven’t been able to get passed.
She says her solution would get the country there faster “without tying us up into political knots.”
3.02am BST
03:02
Mona Chalabi
Speaking about “systemic racism” in the criminal justice system, Hillary Clinton has recognized the role that the 1994 crime bill might have played in worsening the issue, writes Mona Chalabi.
The bill she mentioned is part of her husband, President Bill Clinton’s, political legacy.
We fact-checked its effects last week and concluded that the black incarceration rate had been steadily climbing since 1980, as successive presidents and Congresses passed laws related to the “war on drugs”. But there is no doubt that the 1994 crime bill made a bad situation, worse. Today, for every 100 black women who are not in jail, there are only 83 black men.