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| Bill Shorten faces a second day at the trade union royal commission – politics live | Bill Shorten faces a second day at the trade union royal commission – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 1.01pm AEST04:01 | |
| Stoljar is back to conflict of interest. Was Shorten looking after the interests of the workers at Chiquita or the interests of the AWU? | |
| Q: The problem is where you’re negotiating an EBA which contemplates drastic reductions of the numbers of workers and other changes to those workers, do you accept that there is a major conflict of interest when the union at the same time negotiates a secret deal pursuant to which payments will be made to the union? | |
| Shorten doesn’t accept that. | |
| The commission has broken for lunch. | |
| I’ll be back shortly with a summary of what we’ve seen and learned over the morning session. | |
| 12.58pm AEST03:58 | |
| Shorten says the tough element of the negotiation with Chiquita was changing the piece rates system. (This is where workers are paid by the piece.) | |
| Stoljar is back to paid education. He says there are more invoices. What does Shorten know about those? Not much, he says, but someone at the AWU would have known about it. | |
| I would assume so if the company’s paying paid education leave, someone from the union might have raised that with them, yes. | |
| Was there another oral agreement, Stoljar wonders, like the ACI oral agreement? | |
| Shorten says he’s said previously in evidence to this commission that he doesn’t recall having a conversation about it. He thinks there may have been a written report at some stage recording that paid education leave had been secured. | |
| Stoljar wonders whether or not Chiquita was paying $4,000 a month to avoid disruption to production through the use of independent contractors? | |
| Shorten: | |
| I certainly wouldn’t trigger a payment in that context. | |
| Shorten says the company was looking to labour hire options – the company was shopping around looking for options to decrease their workers comp premium. | |
| What I suspect reading this information you provided was that the company was looking to use labour hire companies who would automatically have a lower workers comp premium so that way it would decrease the on-costs of employing people. | |
| For me the issue was how do you safely remunerate people and ensure their job security? | |
| Some of these other matters are going to a level of detail which I simply wasn’t engaged in. | |
| Stoljar doesn’t think that secure employment happens when employees got shifted over to labour hire firms. | |
| Shorten: | |
| Well, one of the problems is that if Chiquita’s workers comp bill continued on the astronomic levels it was this company would be out of business, then there’s no-one employed. | |
| I wish no-one ever had to go to a labour hire company if they didn’t want to, but if what you’re implying is somehow the union’s got a magic wand and can stop workplace change or structural change ... I don’t know how you can say that. | |
| Stoljar says here’s merely pointing to the diminution in the situation of some of these Chiquita workers, do you understand that? | |
| Shorten says he would rather have someone working at a certain set of rates even if it’s for labour hire than for no-one to have any job at all. | |
| I didn’t invent the problem of$6.5m workers comp premiums on a payroll of $13m. | |
| I could bury my head in the sand and say ‘change is too hard, no way, out the gate, we’ll fight the bosses’ – brilliant! | |
| And maybe that is, in fact, what you are suggesting I should do? | |
| 12.38pm AEST03:38 | |
| Daniel Hurst | |
| Back to normal transmission. The inquiry is hearing that work cover premiums for Chiquita Mushrooms went from $1.2m at time of the last EBA to $6.2m at time of subsequent negotiations. | |
| 12.37pm AEST03:37 | |
| Daniel Hurst tells me Commissioner Heydon smiled. I’ll take that as confirmation. | |
| 12.36pm AEST03:36 | |
| Shorten has perked up with the mushrooms. | |
| What was happening is that you have pickers in their mushroom sheds. I don’t know if you want me to just briefly describe a mushroom shed? It just goes to the relevant ... | |
| There is laughter in the hearing room for the first time in a day and a half. | |
| Shorten takes that as his cue and ploughs on. | |
| There are six trays of mushrooms, sort of like a greenhouse sheds ... | |
| 12.33pm AEST03:33 | 12.33pm AEST03:33 |
| From glass to mushrooms. | From glass to mushrooms. |
| Chiquita Mushrooms coming up now. | Chiquita Mushrooms coming up now. |
| 12.33pm AEST03:33 | 12.33pm AEST03:33 |
| Shorten wants to expand. Stoljar says sure, go ahead. | Shorten wants to expand. Stoljar says sure, go ahead. |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| You talk about conflict of interest. I want to go to the general principle and a couple of the specifics you’ve said. Why is it some people assume that negotiating with a union in terms of improving the union’s ability to deliver services that there is a conflict of interest? | You talk about conflict of interest. I want to go to the general principle and a couple of the specifics you’ve said. Why is it some people assume that negotiating with a union in terms of improving the union’s ability to deliver services that there is a conflict of interest? |
| The truth of the matter is I don’t start my negotiations with a company assuming that we have diverse irreconcilable differences. My interest is in making sure members do well. | The truth of the matter is I don’t start my negotiations with a company assuming that we have diverse irreconcilable differences. My interest is in making sure members do well. |
| He says Stoljar’s characterisation of the agreements being secretive is not right. | He says Stoljar’s characterisation of the agreements being secretive is not right. |
| Nothing’s secret, it’s all in the books. You make the point it’s untoward. I’m not saying I or members used to go to the ledgers, but it’s listed in the ledgers as paid education income. | Nothing’s secret, it’s all in the books. You make the point it’s untoward. I’m not saying I or members used to go to the ledgers, but it’s listed in the ledgers as paid education income. |
| It’s not what it isn’t, it’s exactly what it is. | It’s not what it isn’t, it’s exactly what it is. |
| (I’m not sure what Shorten means by this. I suspect he means it’s in the books, not hidden – but I confess I’m not 100% sure.) | (I’m not sure what Shorten means by this. I suspect he means it’s in the books, not hidden – but I confess I’m not 100% sure.) |
| 12.28pm AEST03:28 | 12.28pm AEST03:28 |
| Stoljar yanks his head out of the weeds. Does Shorten believe that when it comes to enterprise bargaining, his job is to go in as hard as he can for the members? | Stoljar yanks his head out of the weeds. Does Shorten believe that when it comes to enterprise bargaining, his job is to go in as hard as he can for the members? |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| Always have, always will. | Always have, always will. |
| Q: And your position is fundamentally weakened if at the same time you’re negotiating a secret deal whereby $500,000 gets paid direct to the union, do you agree with that? | Q: And your position is fundamentally weakened if at the same time you’re negotiating a secret deal whereby $500,000 gets paid direct to the union, do you agree with that? |
| Not at all. I don’t agree with your characterisation over the past minute and a half. | Not at all. I don’t agree with your characterisation over the past minute and a half. |
| 12.22pm AEST03:22 | 12.22pm AEST03:22 |
| Stoljar is suggesting now that the ledgers in the AWU accounts are somewhat opaque for a glass worker. Shorten insisting the information is in the ledgers. Stoljar isn’t disagreeing with the broad point. He’s now querying the figures in the ledgers. Stoljar wonders if the AWU’s income from education went into consolidated revenue and was expended by the union however it saw fit. | Stoljar is suggesting now that the ledgers in the AWU accounts are somewhat opaque for a glass worker. Shorten insisting the information is in the ledgers. Stoljar isn’t disagreeing with the broad point. He’s now querying the figures in the ledgers. Stoljar wonders if the AWU’s income from education went into consolidated revenue and was expended by the union however it saw fit. |
| Shorten said while he was at the AWU he diversified the union’s income streams so it could focus on education and training. | Shorten said while he was at the AWU he diversified the union’s income streams so it could focus on education and training. |
| 12.11pm AEST03:11 | 12.11pm AEST03:11 |
| Was it Mr Gilhome from ACI? Stoljar wonders who was the party to the oral agreement at ACI. | |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| Yes, I thought I’d answered that. | Yes, I thought I’d answered that. |
| Stoljar wants to know whether the parties considered recording it in the EBA? Shorten says these arrangements were part of the common claims the AWU were making at that time. Counsel assisting repeats his earlier question: how exactly would the members find out about it if it wasn’t in the EBA? | Stoljar wants to know whether the parties considered recording it in the EBA? Shorten says these arrangements were part of the common claims the AWU were making at that time. Counsel assisting repeats his earlier question: how exactly would the members find out about it if it wasn’t in the EBA? |
| Shorten says the levy amounted to 10 cents per member per hour worked. He says the AWU had a known commitment to paid education and the specifics were in the AWU’s annual accounts. | |
| Stoljar has just cracked open the AWU accounts. He suggests it would be pretty hard for a glass worker at the Spotswood plant to get the detail from the AWU accounts, given paid education is represented simply as a line item of income. | Stoljar has just cracked open the AWU accounts. He suggests it would be pretty hard for a glass worker at the Spotswood plant to get the detail from the AWU accounts, given paid education is represented simply as a line item of income. |
| Shorten says there are supporting documents. What supporting documents, Stoljar wonders? Ledgers, Shorten says. | Shorten says there are supporting documents. What supporting documents, Stoljar wonders? Ledgers, Shorten says. |
| Updated at 1.04pm AEST | |
| 12.00pm AEST03:00 | 12.00pm AEST03:00 |
| Stoljar is back on invoices. We are still with ACI Glass. Stoljar is confused why ACI GLass is paying the union amounts adding up to about $500,000 without any legal obligation to do so. | Stoljar is back on invoices. We are still with ACI Glass. Stoljar is confused why ACI GLass is paying the union amounts adding up to about $500,000 without any legal obligation to do so. |
| Where’s the contract, Stoljar wonders? I don’t know, says Shorten, it was possibly an oral agreement. Who were the parties to the oral agreement, Stoljar wonders? | Where’s the contract, Stoljar wonders? I don’t know, says Shorten, it was possibly an oral agreement. Who were the parties to the oral agreement, Stoljar wonders? |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| ACI and the union. | ACI and the union. |
| To the extent that I recall it would have been Mr Melhem, supported by myself. | To the extent that I recall it would have been Mr Melhem, supported by myself. |
| Stoljar says so you were a party to it then? Shorten says in general terms. He didn’t know about specifics. Not ins and outs. | |
| Updated at 12.51pm AEST | |
| 11.54am AEST02:54 | 11.54am AEST02:54 |
| My kingdom for this transcript. | My kingdom for this transcript. |
| Let’s keep calm and carry on. | Let’s keep calm and carry on. |
| Updated at 12.52pm AEST | |
| 11.52am AEST02:52 | 11.52am AEST02:52 |
| I’ll wait for the proper lunch break to post an explanatory summary but in case you are a bit lost in the weeds of this morning’s evidence, here’s the short version. | I’ll wait for the proper lunch break to post an explanatory summary but in case you are a bit lost in the weeds of this morning’s evidence, here’s the short version. |
| That’s it, in a nutshell. | That’s it, in a nutshell. |
| And here they are, back. | And here they are, back. |
| Updated at 1.03pm AEST | |
| 11.42am AEST02:42 | 11.42am AEST02:42 |
| Daniel Hurst | Daniel Hurst |
| As the commission takes a very short recess, I can post this contribution from Daniel Hurst, who is hunkered down in the hearing room. I’ve asked him to send me the odd update about dynamics and atmospherics in the hearing room. | As the commission takes a very short recess, I can post this contribution from Daniel Hurst, who is hunkered down in the hearing room. I’ve asked him to send me the odd update about dynamics and atmospherics in the hearing room. |
| Bill Shorten has appears to have taken on a more sombre mood in answering questions after the commissioner, Dyson Heydon, warned him twice against giving lengthy answers. The Labor leader seemed relatively chipper in the first hour of questioning today, appearing to be firm in his belief that the enterprise agreement with Thiess John Holland for the East Link road project was a good deal for workers. He said he didn’t recall specific amounts of payments from the joint venture builder to the AWU being discussed during negotiations - and seemed frustrated when counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar insisted on direct ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. | Bill Shorten has appears to have taken on a more sombre mood in answering questions after the commissioner, Dyson Heydon, warned him twice against giving lengthy answers. The Labor leader seemed relatively chipper in the first hour of questioning today, appearing to be firm in his belief that the enterprise agreement with Thiess John Holland for the East Link road project was a good deal for workers. He said he didn’t recall specific amounts of payments from the joint venture builder to the AWU being discussed during negotiations - and seemed frustrated when counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar insisted on direct ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. |
| Heydon’s first intervention (for which the whole room was silent) obviously influenced Shorten’s subsequent answering style. A couple of time, Shorten seemed like he wanted to say more but he specifically referenced how he was “mindful of the commissioner’s suggestion”. | Heydon’s first intervention (for which the whole room was silent) obviously influenced Shorten’s subsequent answering style. A couple of time, Shorten seemed like he wanted to say more but he specifically referenced how he was “mindful of the commissioner’s suggestion”. |
| When Shorten said he wanted to explain the “chronology” of paid education leave, the commissioner warned him it would be “at your peril” if it turned out to be irrelevant. Shorten grinned and told the hearing: “I’ll take your gentle guidance and wait,” | When Shorten said he wanted to explain the “chronology” of paid education leave, the commissioner warned him it would be “at your peril” if it turned out to be irrelevant. Shorten grinned and told the hearing: “I’ll take your gentle guidance and wait,” |
| There are fewer observers in the public gallery today than there were yesterday for Shorten’s first day of questioning. Like yesterday, former ACTU leader and cabinet minister Greg Combet is quietly watching the evidence while sitting with Shorten’s legal team at the desk. | There are fewer observers in the public gallery today than there were yesterday for Shorten’s first day of questioning. Like yesterday, former ACTU leader and cabinet minister Greg Combet is quietly watching the evidence while sitting with Shorten’s legal team at the desk. |
| 11.38am AEST02:38 | 11.38am AEST02:38 |
| Shorten says the agreement at ACI Glass was Cesar Melhem’s primary responsibility, reporting to him. He confirms the main negotiator at ACI was a Mr Gilhome. Shorten confirms “Mr Gilhome” was someone he knew well. | |
| Stoljar wants to know if he spoke at Mr Gilhome’s farewell party? Shorten can’t remember. It’s possible. | |
| We are heading back to paid education leave. Stoljar wants to know whether Shorten spoke to Gilhome about paid education leave and the concept of paying an employer levy. Quite possibly, he thinks. | |
| Stoljar is asking about an AWU invoice worth $79,750 made out to Gilhome. What did he know about it? Shorten says Cesar Melhem would have said something to him along the following lines: Good news Bill, we’ve got a company willing to back your concept of an education levy. | |
| Stoljar says there’s a second invoice. But he says paid education leave is not reflected specifically in the ACI enterprise agreement. What’s going on there? | Stoljar says there’s a second invoice. But he says paid education leave is not reflected specifically in the ACI enterprise agreement. What’s going on there? |
| Shorten says he wasn’t involved in the clause by clause negotiation. | Shorten says he wasn’t involved in the clause by clause negotiation. |
| Stoljar wants to know why the company is paying the AWU this money if paid education leave is not reflected in their workplace agreement. And did the members know they had an entitlement if it wasn’t reflected in their agreement? | Stoljar wants to know why the company is paying the AWU this money if paid education leave is not reflected in their workplace agreement. And did the members know they had an entitlement if it wasn’t reflected in their agreement? |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| I believe there’s a number of ways members would have known. | I believe there’s a number of ways members would have known. |
| Stoljar is back to conflict of interest and side deals. | Stoljar is back to conflict of interest and side deals. |
| Do you accept this is a conflict of interest? | Do you accept this is a conflict of interest? |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| No. | No. |
| Updated at 1.05pm AEST | |
| 11.22am AEST02:22 | 11.22am AEST02:22 |
| Stoljar is moving on to ACI Glass – another enterprise agreement. | Stoljar is moving on to ACI Glass – another enterprise agreement. |
| Shorten thinks he might like to track back to a discussion a couple of moments ago about paid education leave. Commissioner Heydon suggests to Shorten that may not be in his interests at this point in time. Shorten says he will move on. | Shorten thinks he might like to track back to a discussion a couple of moments ago about paid education leave. Commissioner Heydon suggests to Shorten that may not be in his interests at this point in time. Shorten says he will move on. |
| 11.16am AEST02:16 | 11.16am AEST02:16 |
| Stoljar wants to know whether the CFMEU had a comparable agreement to the AWU’s agreement with the joint venture. Shorten doesn’t know. | Stoljar wants to know whether the CFMEU had a comparable agreement to the AWU’s agreement with the joint venture. Shorten doesn’t know. |
| Stoljar asks Shorten whether he accepts that he has to work in the best interest of employees and whether a side deal involving payments to the union would be a serious conflict of interest? | Stoljar asks Shorten whether he accepts that he has to work in the best interest of employees and whether a side deal involving payments to the union would be a serious conflict of interest? |
| Shorten says he knows the AWU was supplying specific services to the project. This was normal practice, he says. | Shorten says he knows the AWU was supplying specific services to the project. This was normal practice, he says. |
| Stoljar says why wasn’t the arrangement in the EBA? Aren’t EBA’s catch all agreements? Shorten says not always. | Stoljar says why wasn’t the arrangement in the EBA? Aren’t EBA’s catch all agreements? Shorten says not always. |
| Stoljar asks whether Shorten had a pattern of seeking contributions from employers negotiating EBAs – contributions directly to the AWU? | Stoljar asks whether Shorten had a pattern of seeking contributions from employers negotiating EBAs – contributions directly to the AWU? |
| Shorten says the union routinely sought contributions for training, or for ads in the journals and for education on site. | Shorten says the union routinely sought contributions for training, or for ads in the journals and for education on site. |
| 11.09am AEST02:09 | 11.09am AEST02:09 |
| Stoljar is persisting on Shorten’s specific knowledge of the agreement with the AWU. | Stoljar is persisting on Shorten’s specific knowledge of the agreement with the AWU. |
| I would not have just said that the company should just pay the union. | I would not have just said that the company should just pay the union. |
| Stoljar: | Stoljar: |
| Are you evading my question? | Are you evading my question? |
| Commissioner Heydon then chides Shorten for being non-responsive. He says Shorten is here at the royal commission to rebut some of the criticism that has been made about him in recent weeks. Heydon says he’s concerned about his credibility as a witness, and his self-interest. He says it’s in Shorten’s interest to curb his extraneous answers. Heydon says it is partly Shorten’s fault that we are proceeding slowly through the material. He says you are here to clear this up, so please proceed. | Commissioner Heydon then chides Shorten for being non-responsive. He says Shorten is here at the royal commission to rebut some of the criticism that has been made about him in recent weeks. Heydon says he’s concerned about his credibility as a witness, and his self-interest. He says it’s in Shorten’s interest to curb his extraneous answers. Heydon says it is partly Shorten’s fault that we are proceeding slowly through the material. He says you are here to clear this up, so please proceed. |
| So chided, Stoljar asks the question again. | So chided, Stoljar asks the question again. |
| Shorten says I would have had discussions about the EBA and about how the AWU would organise after the EBA to deliver services at the site. | Shorten says I would have had discussions about the EBA and about how the AWU would organise after the EBA to deliver services at the site. |
| Stoljar asks is it a coincidence that the joint venture then started paying the amounts up to $100,000 to the AWU? | Stoljar asks is it a coincidence that the joint venture then started paying the amounts up to $100,000 to the AWU? |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| I don’t recall and don’t believe I would have said a specific amount. | I don’t recall and don’t believe I would have said a specific amount. |
| 10.59am AEST01:59 | 10.59am AEST01:59 |
| "I don't remember that" | "I don't remember that" |
| Stoljar wants to know whether Shorten spoke to “Mr Rzesniowiecki” (I will need to check this spelling when possible) or “Mr Sasse” about Thiess paying in instalments. Shorten acknowledges in general terms he spoke about matters pertaining to the agreement. | Stoljar wants to know whether Shorten spoke to “Mr Rzesniowiecki” (I will need to check this spelling when possible) or “Mr Sasse” about Thiess paying in instalments. Shorten acknowledges in general terms he spoke about matters pertaining to the agreement. |
| Stoljar moves on to the provision of red card training. Shorten says this was a legitimate purpose provided. Stoljar points to company correspondence saying John Holland ran red card training on the project (meaning the AWU didn’t have to provide the service because it was already being delivered by the employers.) | Stoljar moves on to the provision of red card training. Shorten says this was a legitimate purpose provided. Stoljar points to company correspondence saying John Holland ran red card training on the project (meaning the AWU didn’t have to provide the service because it was already being delivered by the employers.) |
| Shorten says the company didn’t have to pay for things like ads in the union journal, or a ball for the workers, but it did it to build good relations with the union and the workers. | Shorten says the company didn’t have to pay for things like ads in the union journal, or a ball for the workers, but it did it to build good relations with the union and the workers. |
| The Labor leader then repeats his earlier formulations. He didn’t have a line of sight on all these invoices. But the relationships underpinning the invoices are actually the important thing to understand from his perspective. | The Labor leader then repeats his earlier formulations. He didn’t have a line of sight on all these invoices. But the relationships underpinning the invoices are actually the important thing to understand from his perspective. |
| Stoljar goes back to Mr Sasse and other joint venture executives. Did he have discussions about the agreement to pay the AWU $100,000 in instalments? | Stoljar goes back to Mr Sasse and other joint venture executives. Did he have discussions about the agreement to pay the AWU $100,000 in instalments? |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| I don’t remember that. | I don’t remember that. |
| Stoljar repeats the question. | Stoljar repeats the question. |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| I don’t particularly remember having discussions on what you’ve just put to me. | I don’t particularly remember having discussions on what you’ve just put to me. |
| Updated at 11.44am AEST | Updated at 11.44am AEST |
| 10.46am AEST01:46 | 10.46am AEST01:46 |
| Stoljar is persisting with the invoices. He says they suggest that Thiess was making good payments up to the amount previously agreed with the AWU. Stoljar quotes joint venture correspondence stating “if we don’t reach the agreed sum we can address at the end of the year.” | Stoljar is persisting with the invoices. He says they suggest that Thiess was making good payments up to the amount previously agreed with the AWU. Stoljar quotes joint venture correspondence stating “if we don’t reach the agreed sum we can address at the end of the year.” |
| Jeremy Stoljar: | Jeremy Stoljar: |
| It’s clear that what they are talking about is getting it up to $110, 000. | It’s clear that what they are talking about is getting it up to $110, 000. |
| Shorten goes back to the agreement with the joint venture. He says his expectation is if AWU invoices went out it was for services provided. He says the East Link project saw value in the agreement with the AWU. | Shorten goes back to the agreement with the joint venture. He says his expectation is if AWU invoices went out it was for services provided. He says the East Link project saw value in the agreement with the AWU. |
| 10.38am AEST01:38 | 10.38am AEST01:38 |
| This is the summary of Thiess John Holland payments that #TURC is exploring, page 3 of 3. @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/Mc7n6twmEj | This is the summary of Thiess John Holland payments that #TURC is exploring, page 3 of 3. @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/Mc7n6twmEj |
| 10.37am AEST01:37 | 10.37am AEST01:37 |
| Shorten’s point is Stoljar’s questions should be directed to Cesar Melhem, then secretary of the Victorian branch. | Shorten’s point is Stoljar’s questions should be directed to Cesar Melhem, then secretary of the Victorian branch. |
| I was not administering the day to day matters of the Victorian branch. | I was not administering the day to day matters of the Victorian branch. |
| Stoljar says hang on, weren’t you meeting with him regularly? Shorten says he was, but he wasn’t on site. His contact with Melhem was about national matters. | Stoljar says hang on, weren’t you meeting with him regularly? Shorten says he was, but he wasn’t on site. His contact with Melhem was about national matters. |
| 10.34am AEST01:34 | 10.34am AEST01:34 |
| Shorten continues. | Shorten continues. |
| I cannot speak to invoices specifically issued after my time. | I cannot speak to invoices specifically issued after my time. |
| He says he can’t speak to invoices from the Victorian branch. He didn’t have a line of sight on those invoices. I didn’t inspect every invoice that went out. | He says he can’t speak to invoices from the Victorian branch. He didn’t have a line of sight on those invoices. I didn’t inspect every invoice that went out. |
| Shorten repeats that he would not agree to employers paying the union for services that weren’t delivered. | Shorten repeats that he would not agree to employers paying the union for services that weren’t delivered. |
| 10.31am AEST01:31 | 10.31am AEST01:31 |
| Stoljar is moving on to advertising in the AWU’s journal, the Australian Worker magazine. Stoljar wants to know why the Victorian branch is charging for advertising when the national office actually produces the publication. Shorten says that shouldn’t have happened. | Stoljar is moving on to advertising in the AWU’s journal, the Australian Worker magazine. Stoljar wants to know why the Victorian branch is charging for advertising when the national office actually produces the publication. Shorten says that shouldn’t have happened. |
| Stoljar says invoices were being issued to make up the $100,000 payments per year under the agreement with the East Link joint venture – with no regard to whether or not the services were actually provided. | Stoljar says invoices were being issued to make up the $100,000 payments per year under the agreement with the East Link joint venture – with no regard to whether or not the services were actually provided. |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| In my case, completely untrue. | In my case, completely untrue. |
| 10.25am AEST01:25 | 10.25am AEST01:25 |
| Stoljar is asking about an invoice for HSR training of $38,750. What is Shorten’s knowledge of this? Counsel wants a yes or no answer. | Stoljar is asking about an invoice for HSR training of $38,750. What is Shorten’s knowledge of this? Counsel wants a yes or no answer. |
| Shorten isn’t inclined to give him one. | Shorten isn’t inclined to give him one. |
| Mr Stoljar, in the interests of getting to the bottom of matters, some answers take longer than one word. | Mr Stoljar, in the interests of getting to the bottom of matters, some answers take longer than one word. |
| 10.22am AEST01:22 | 10.22am AEST01:22 |
| Stoljar is asking whether the joint venture agreed to pay the AWU $100,000 a year for the life of the agreement. | Stoljar is asking whether the joint venture agreed to pay the AWU $100,000 a year for the life of the agreement. |
| Bill Shorten keeps defaulting to the substance of the enterprise agreement between the AWU and the East Link joint venture. He says he was determined to strike the best deal possible, and get the best job security possible. Then we get to site organisation. Shorten says it is quite usual for companies to pay for various services on site. | Bill Shorten keeps defaulting to the substance of the enterprise agreement between the AWU and the East Link joint venture. He says he was determined to strike the best deal possible, and get the best job security possible. Then we get to site organisation. Shorten says it is quite usual for companies to pay for various services on site. |
| Stoljar repeats the question. Was there an agreement to pay $100,000 a year? | Stoljar repeats the question. Was there an agreement to pay $100,000 a year? |
| Shorten says that is not his recollection. He says the services the union provided while he was at the AWU could always be explained by training delivered. | Shorten says that is not his recollection. He says the services the union provided while he was at the AWU could always be explained by training delivered. |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| This is entirely sensible workplace relations. | This is entirely sensible workplace relations. |
| 10.14am AEST01:14 | 10.14am AEST01:14 |
| Daniel Hurst | Daniel Hurst |
| Just for clarity, the $300,000 is total payments from Thiess John Holland to AWU Victoria and the national office between 2005 and 2008. | Just for clarity, the $300,000 is total payments from Thiess John Holland to AWU Victoria and the national office between 2005 and 2008. |
| Updated at 10.15am AEST | Updated at 10.15am AEST |
| 10.09am AEST01:09 | 10.09am AEST01:09 |
| Shorten begins his evidence | Shorten begins his evidence |
| Counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar is opening his line of questioning on the joint venture between Thiess and John Holland. This is the East Link project. A bundle of documents has just been dropped. | Counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar is opening his line of questioning on the joint venture between Thiess and John Holland. This is the East Link project. A bundle of documents has just been dropped. |
| Stoljar is asking Shorten about a $300,000 payment to the AWU in Victoria. Stoljar is asking whether the AWU in Victoria did research into back strain in the period leading up to 18 January 2006. The witness doesn’t recall this specific piece of work. | Stoljar is asking Shorten about a $300,000 payment to the AWU in Victoria. Stoljar is asking whether the AWU in Victoria did research into back strain in the period leading up to 18 January 2006. The witness doesn’t recall this specific piece of work. |
| Shorten notes back strain is a big issue in civil construction. Stoljar doesn’t doubt it but he wants to know about these specific invoices. | Shorten notes back strain is a big issue in civil construction. Stoljar doesn’t doubt it but he wants to know about these specific invoices. |
| Q: Is this a bogus invoice claiming for work never done? | Q: Is this a bogus invoice claiming for work never done? |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| I would never be party to issuing bogus invoices, full stop. | I would never be party to issuing bogus invoices, full stop. |
| 9.57am AEST00:57 | 9.57am AEST00:57 |
| Having worked through the substance of yesterday, and shared various reflections on it, just a thought about tactics before we blast into rapid fire element of the day. | Having worked through the substance of yesterday, and shared various reflections on it, just a thought about tactics before we blast into rapid fire element of the day. |
| Shorten’s approach to the commission has been to play the whole process in a low key fashion, cooperating with the Stoljar questioning, biting back only when provoked and then in low key fashion. | Shorten’s approach to the commission has been to play the whole process in a low key fashion, cooperating with the Stoljar questioning, biting back only when provoked and then in low key fashion. |
| Outside the commission, Labor has been attacking the process as stacked against the opposition, a witch-hunt and all the rest. One option Shorten would have is to bring some of that critique inside the proceedings today rather than maintaining the current separation between the way he’s presenting and the political attack going on outside. | Outside the commission, Labor has been attacking the process as stacked against the opposition, a witch-hunt and all the rest. One option Shorten would have is to bring some of that critique inside the proceedings today rather than maintaining the current separation between the way he’s presenting and the political attack going on outside. |
| It’s a more risky way to go, and I make no predictions about it whatsoever. I’m just noting there are different ways you could approach the proceedings. | It’s a more risky way to go, and I make no predictions about it whatsoever. I’m just noting there are different ways you could approach the proceedings. |
| Underway in a minute now. Refresh your beverages. | Underway in a minute now. Refresh your beverages. |
| Updated at 10.30am AEST | Updated at 10.30am AEST |
| 9.37am AEST00:37 | 9.37am AEST00:37 |
| Let me point you in the direction of a couple of good analytical pieces besides the one posted by Gay Alcorn covering Wednesday’s hearing. | Let me point you in the direction of a couple of good analytical pieces besides the one posted by Gay Alcorn covering Wednesday’s hearing. |
| The gentleman of Australian political journalism, Age political editor Michael Gordon, says Bill Shorten held up well in the morning onslaught but the exhausting nature of the grilling took its toll in the afternoon. Gordon also highlights an almost surreal edge to the #turc inquisition – a process set up by a Coalition government (who deregulated the industrial relations system and campaigned against union militancy) now taking a moderate union official to task. | The gentleman of Australian political journalism, Age political editor Michael Gordon, says Bill Shorten held up well in the morning onslaught but the exhausting nature of the grilling took its toll in the afternoon. Gordon also highlights an almost surreal edge to the #turc inquisition – a process set up by a Coalition government (who deregulated the industrial relations system and campaigned against union militancy) now taking a moderate union official to task. |
| The more substantial question is whether Mr Shorten acted in the best interests of his members when he led the Australian Workers Union and, while it is premature to draw conclusions, there is an almost surreal edge to this inquisition. Here is the party that wanted to abolish the no-disadvantage test for enterprise agreements taking Mr Shorten to task for allegedly failing to uphold it in one instance. | The more substantial question is whether Mr Shorten acted in the best interests of his members when he led the Australian Workers Union and, while it is premature to draw conclusions, there is an almost surreal edge to this inquisition. Here is the party that wanted to abolish the no-disadvantage test for enterprise agreements taking Mr Shorten to task for allegedly failing to uphold it in one instance. |
| John Lyons at the Australian notes that whether or not the royal commission is a witch-hunt, it remains Shorten’s big test. Lyons thinks the Unibuilt donation knocked Shorten about in the witness box. | John Lyons at the Australian notes that whether or not the royal commission is a witch-hunt, it remains Shorten’s big test. Lyons thinks the Unibuilt donation knocked Shorten about in the witness box. |
| [Shorten’s] former ministerial colleague Greg Combet looked on anxiously as an often defensive Shorten sought to explain away the many unsavoury elements of the Unibilt deal. Was it not a breathtaking conflict of interest that Unibilt was paying for Shorten’s campaign director at a time when Unibilt was about to begin negotiations with the AWU for a new enterprise bargaining agreement? Cue a nervous reach for a glass of water, before Shorten admitted that he had not initially revealed this donation-in-kind in his declaration to the Australian Electoral Commission, only rectifying this days before he was about to appear before the commission. | [Shorten’s] former ministerial colleague Greg Combet looked on anxiously as an often defensive Shorten sought to explain away the many unsavoury elements of the Unibilt deal. Was it not a breathtaking conflict of interest that Unibilt was paying for Shorten’s campaign director at a time when Unibilt was about to begin negotiations with the AWU for a new enterprise bargaining agreement? Cue a nervous reach for a glass of water, before Shorten admitted that he had not initially revealed this donation-in-kind in his declaration to the Australian Electoral Commission, only rectifying this days before he was about to appear before the commission. |
| It was the most damaging moment for Shorten in what was a day-long, bruising battle with Stoljar. | It was the most damaging moment for Shorten in what was a day-long, bruising battle with Stoljar. |
| Updated at 9.47am AEST | Updated at 9.47am AEST |
| 9.20am AEST00:20 | 9.20am AEST00:20 |
| Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of Bill Shorten’s second day in the witness box at the trade union royal commission. Shorten is giving evidence about the period he was secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union Victorian branch – from 1998 to 2006. Shorten also served as the union’s national secretary from 2001 until he entered federal parliament in 2007. | Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of Bill Shorten’s second day in the witness box at the trade union royal commission. Shorten is giving evidence about the period he was secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union Victorian branch – from 1998 to 2006. Shorten also served as the union’s national secretary from 2001 until he entered federal parliament in 2007. |
| Before we launch into #turc day two, let’s recap the highlights from day one. | Before we launch into #turc day two, let’s recap the highlights from day one. |
| So that was Wednesday in the witness box. A couple of additional resources to help you prepare for today. | So that was Wednesday in the witness box. A couple of additional resources to help you prepare for today. |
| If you need to walk back a couple of steps from the specifics of Wednesday, and read up on what this inquisition is all about, you can find a very useful primer by my colleague Daniel Hurst here. Still in primer territory, I linked to this yesterday and will again today. Our colleagues at Fairfax have produced a list of questions Shorten needs to answer. | If you need to walk back a couple of steps from the specifics of Wednesday, and read up on what this inquisition is all about, you can find a very useful primer by my colleague Daniel Hurst here. Still in primer territory, I linked to this yesterday and will again today. Our colleagues at Fairfax have produced a list of questions Shorten needs to answer. |
| If you would like to try and decode Wednesday a little further and contemplate some bigger systemic issues about fundraising and political culture highlighted by Shorten’s testimony at the royal commission, another colleague, Gay Alcorn, has written a terrific analysis which you can find here. | If you would like to try and decode Wednesday a little further and contemplate some bigger systemic issues about fundraising and political culture highlighted by Shorten’s testimony at the royal commission, another colleague, Gay Alcorn, has written a terrific analysis which you can find here. |
| If you’d just like some comic relief, you can find First Dog on The Moon’s depiction of the opposition leader, Stiff Breezington, in the #turc witness box, here. | If you’d just like some comic relief, you can find First Dog on The Moon’s depiction of the opposition leader, Stiff Breezington, in the #turc witness box, here. |
| Shorten is due to take the stand at 10am. | Shorten is due to take the stand at 10am. |
| We’ll continue to read in gently until he appears. The Politics Live comments thread is now open for your business, and you can find me, today, and most days, and some evenings and weekends, depending on how much my family wants to talk to me, on the Twits @murpharoo | We’ll continue to read in gently until he appears. The Politics Live comments thread is now open for your business, and you can find me, today, and most days, and some evenings and weekends, depending on how much my family wants to talk to me, on the Twits @murpharoo |
| Buckle in young #turcs. Here comes B-Day 2.0 | Buckle in young #turcs. Here comes B-Day 2.0 |
| Updated at 9.49am AEST | Updated at 9.49am AEST |