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| Bill Shorten faces a second day at the trade union royal commission – politics live | Bill Shorten faces a second day at the trade union royal commission – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 11.22am AEST02:22 | |
| Stoljar is moving on to ACI Glass – another enterprise agreement. | |
| Shorten thinks he might like to track back to a discussion a couple of moments ago about paid education leave. Commissioner Heydon suggests to Shorten that may not be in his interests at this point in time. Shorten says he will move on. | |
| 11.16am AEST02:16 | |
| Stoljar wants to know whether the CFMEU had a comparable agreement to the AWU’s agreement with the joint venture. Shorten doesn’t know. | |
| Stoljar asks Shorten whether he accepts that he has to work in the best interest of employees and whether a side deal involving payments to the union would be a serious conflict of interest? | |
| Shorten says he knows the AWU was supplying specific services to the project. This was normal practice, he says. | |
| Stoljar says why wasn’t the arrangement in the EBA? Aren’t EBA’s catch all agreements? Shorten says not always. | |
| Stoljar asks whether Shorten had a pattern of seeking contributions from employers negotiating EBAs – contributions directly to the AWU? | |
| Shorten says the union routinely sought contributions for training, or for ads in the journals and for education on site. | |
| 11.09am AEST02:09 | |
| Stoljar is persisting on Shorten’s specific knowledge of the agreement with the AWU. | |
| I would not have just said that the company should just pay the union. | |
| Stoljar: | |
| Are you evading my question? | |
| Commissioner Heydon then chides Shorten for being non-responsive. He says Shorten is here at the royal commission to rebut some of the criticism that has been made about him in recent weeks. Heydon says he’s concerned about his credibility as a witness, and his self-interest. He says it’s in Shorten’s interest to curb his extraneous answers. Heydon says it is partly Shorten’s fault that we are proceeding slowly through the material. He says you are here to clear this up, so please proceed. | |
| So chided, Stoljar asks the question again. | |
| Shorten says I would have had discussions about the EBA and about how the AWU would organise after the EBA to deliver services at the site. | |
| Stoljar asks is it a coincidence that the joint venture then started paying the amounts up to $100,000 to the AWU? | |
| Shorten: | |
| I don’t recall and don’t believe I would have said a specific amount. | |
| 10.59am AEST01:59 | |
| "I don't remember that" | |
| Stoljar wants to know whether Shorten spoke to “Mr Rzesniowiecki” (I will need to check this spelling when possible) or “Mr Sass” about Thiess paying in instalments. Shorten acknowledges in general terms he spoke about matters pertaining to the agreement. | |
| Stoljar moves on to the provision of red card training. Shorten says this was a legitimate purpose provided. Stoljar points to company correspondence saying John Holland ran red card training on the project (meaning the AWU didn’t have to provide the service because it was already being delivered by the employers.) | |
| Shorten says the company didn’t have to pay for things like ads in the union journal, or a ball for the workers, but it did it to build good relations with the union and the workers. | |
| The Labor leader then repeats his earlier formulations. He didn’t have a line of sight on all these invoices. But the relationships underpinning the invoices are actually the important thing to understand from his perspective. | |
| Stoljar goes back to Mr Sass and other joint venture executives. Did he have discussions about the agreement to pay the AWU $100,000 in instalments? | |
| Shorten: | |
| I don’t remember that. | |
| Stoljar repeats the question. | |
| Shorten: | |
| I don’t particularly remember having discussions on what you’ve just put to me. | |
| 10.46am AEST01:46 | 10.46am AEST01:46 |
| Stoljar is persisting with the invoices. He says they suggest that Thiess was making good payments up to the amount previously agreed with the AWU. Stoljar quotes joint venture correspondence stating “if we don’t reach the agreed sum we can address at the end of the year.” | Stoljar is persisting with the invoices. He says they suggest that Thiess was making good payments up to the amount previously agreed with the AWU. Stoljar quotes joint venture correspondence stating “if we don’t reach the agreed sum we can address at the end of the year.” |
| Jeremy Stoljar: | Jeremy Stoljar: |
| It’s clear that what they are talking about is getting it up to $110, 000. | It’s clear that what they are talking about is getting it up to $110, 000. |
| Shorten goes back to the agreement with the joint venture. He says his expectation is if AWU invoices went out it was for services provided. He says the East Link project saw value in the agreement with the AWU. | Shorten goes back to the agreement with the joint venture. He says his expectation is if AWU invoices went out it was for services provided. He says the East Link project saw value in the agreement with the AWU. |
| 10.38am AEST01:38 | 10.38am AEST01:38 |
| This is the summary of Thiess John Holland payments that #TURC is exploring, page 3 of 3. @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/Mc7n6twmEj | This is the summary of Thiess John Holland payments that #TURC is exploring, page 3 of 3. @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/Mc7n6twmEj |
| 10.37am AEST01:37 | 10.37am AEST01:37 |
| Shorten’s point is Stoljar’s questions should be directed to Cesar Melhem, then secretary of the Victorian branch. | Shorten’s point is Stoljar’s questions should be directed to Cesar Melhem, then secretary of the Victorian branch. |
| I was not administering the day to day matters of the Victorian branch. | I was not administering the day to day matters of the Victorian branch. |
| Stoljar says hang on, weren’t you meeting with him regularly? Shorten says he was, but he wasn’t on site. His contact with Melhem was about national matters. | Stoljar says hang on, weren’t you meeting with him regularly? Shorten says he was, but he wasn’t on site. His contact with Melhem was about national matters. |
| 10.34am AEST01:34 | 10.34am AEST01:34 |
| Shorten continues. | Shorten continues. |
| I cannot speak to invoices specifically issued after my time. | I cannot speak to invoices specifically issued after my time. |
| He says he can’t speak to invoices from the Victorian branch. He didn’t have a line of sight on those invoices. I didn’t inspect every invoice that went out. | He says he can’t speak to invoices from the Victorian branch. He didn’t have a line of sight on those invoices. I didn’t inspect every invoice that went out. |
| Shorten repeats that he would not agree to employers paying the union for services that weren’t delivered. | Shorten repeats that he would not agree to employers paying the union for services that weren’t delivered. |
| 10.31am AEST01:31 | 10.31am AEST01:31 |
| Stoljar is moving on to advertising in the AWU’s journal, the Australian Worker magazine. Stoljar wants to know why the Victorian branch is charging for advertising when the national office actually produces the publication. Shorten says that shouldn’t have happened. | Stoljar is moving on to advertising in the AWU’s journal, the Australian Worker magazine. Stoljar wants to know why the Victorian branch is charging for advertising when the national office actually produces the publication. Shorten says that shouldn’t have happened. |
| Stoljar says invoices were being issued to make up the $100,000 payments per year under the agreement with the East Link joint venture – with no regard to whether or not the services were actually provided. | Stoljar says invoices were being issued to make up the $100,000 payments per year under the agreement with the East Link joint venture – with no regard to whether or not the services were actually provided. |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| In my case, completely untrue. | In my case, completely untrue. |
| 10.25am AEST01:25 | 10.25am AEST01:25 |
| Stoljar is asking about an invoice for HSR training of $38,750. What is Shorten’s knowledge of this? Counsel wants a yes or no answer. | Stoljar is asking about an invoice for HSR training of $38,750. What is Shorten’s knowledge of this? Counsel wants a yes or no answer. |
| Shorten isn’t inclined to give him one. | Shorten isn’t inclined to give him one. |
| Mr Stoljar, in the interests of getting to the bottom of matters, some answers take longer than one word. | Mr Stoljar, in the interests of getting to the bottom of matters, some answers take longer than one word. |
| 10.22am AEST01:22 | 10.22am AEST01:22 |
| Stoljar is asking whether the joint venture agreed to pay the AWU $100,000 a year for the life of the agreement. | Stoljar is asking whether the joint venture agreed to pay the AWU $100,000 a year for the life of the agreement. |
| Bill Shorten keeps defaulting to the substance of the enterprise agreement between the AWU and the East Link joint venture. He says he was determined to strike the best deal possible, and get the best job security possible. Then we get to site organisation. Shorten says it is quite usual for companies to pay for various services on site. | Bill Shorten keeps defaulting to the substance of the enterprise agreement between the AWU and the East Link joint venture. He says he was determined to strike the best deal possible, and get the best job security possible. Then we get to site organisation. Shorten says it is quite usual for companies to pay for various services on site. |
| Stoljar repeats the question. Was there an agreement to pay $100,000 a year? | Stoljar repeats the question. Was there an agreement to pay $100,000 a year? |
| Shorten says that is not his recollection. He says the services the union provided while he was at the AWU could always be explained by training delivered. | Shorten says that is not his recollection. He says the services the union provided while he was at the AWU could always be explained by training delivered. |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| This is entirely sensible workplace relations. | This is entirely sensible workplace relations. |
| 10.14am AEST01:14 | 10.14am AEST01:14 |
| Daniel Hurst | Daniel Hurst |
| Just for clarity, the $300,000 is total payments from Thiess John Holland to AWU Victoria and the national office between 2005 and 2008. | Just for clarity, the $300,000 is total payments from Thiess John Holland to AWU Victoria and the national office between 2005 and 2008. |
| Updated at 10.15am AEST | Updated at 10.15am AEST |
| 10.09am AEST01:09 | 10.09am AEST01:09 |
| Shorten begins his evidence | Shorten begins his evidence |
| Counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar is opening his line of questioning on the joint venture between Thiess and John Holland. This is the East Link project. A bundle of documents has just been dropped. | Counsel assisting Jeremy Stoljar is opening his line of questioning on the joint venture between Thiess and John Holland. This is the East Link project. A bundle of documents has just been dropped. |
| Stoljar is asking Shorten about a $300,000 payment to the AWU in Victoria. Stoljar is asking whether the AWU in Victoria did research into back strain in the period leading up to 18 January 2006. The witness doesn’t recall this specific piece of work. | Stoljar is asking Shorten about a $300,000 payment to the AWU in Victoria. Stoljar is asking whether the AWU in Victoria did research into back strain in the period leading up to 18 January 2006. The witness doesn’t recall this specific piece of work. |
| Shorten notes back strain is a big issue in civil construction. Stoljar doesn’t doubt it but he wants to know about these specific invoices. | Shorten notes back strain is a big issue in civil construction. Stoljar doesn’t doubt it but he wants to know about these specific invoices. |
| Q: Is this a bogus invoice claiming for work never done? | Q: Is this a bogus invoice claiming for work never done? |
| Bill Shorten: | Bill Shorten: |
| I would never be party to issuing bogus invoices, full stop. | I would never be party to issuing bogus invoices, full stop. |
| 9.57am AEST00:57 | 9.57am AEST00:57 |
| Having worked through the substance of yesterday, and shared various reflections on it, just a thought about tactics before we blast into rapid fire element of the day. | Having worked through the substance of yesterday, and shared various reflections on it, just a thought about tactics before we blast into rapid fire element of the day. |
| Shorten’s approach to the commission has been to play the whole process in a low key fashion, cooperating with the Stoljar questioning, biting back only when provoked and then in low key fashion. | Shorten’s approach to the commission has been to play the whole process in a low key fashion, cooperating with the Stoljar questioning, biting back only when provoked and then in low key fashion. |
| Outside the commission, Labor has been attacking the process as stacked against the opposition, a witch-hunt and all the rest. One option Shorten would have is to bring some of that critique inside the proceedings today rather than maintaining the current separation between the way he’s presenting and the political attack going on outside. | Outside the commission, Labor has been attacking the process as stacked against the opposition, a witch-hunt and all the rest. One option Shorten would have is to bring some of that critique inside the proceedings today rather than maintaining the current separation between the way he’s presenting and the political attack going on outside. |
| It’s a more risky way to go, and I make no predictions about it whatsoever. I’m just noting there are different ways you could approach the proceedings. | It’s a more risky way to go, and I make no predictions about it whatsoever. I’m just noting there are different ways you could approach the proceedings. |
| Underway in a minute now. Refresh your beverages. | Underway in a minute now. Refresh your beverages. |
| Updated at 10.30am AEST | Updated at 10.30am AEST |
| 9.37am AEST00:37 | 9.37am AEST00:37 |
| Let me point you in the direction of a couple of good analytical pieces besides the one posted by Gay Alcorn covering Wednesday’s hearing. | Let me point you in the direction of a couple of good analytical pieces besides the one posted by Gay Alcorn covering Wednesday’s hearing. |
| The gentleman of Australian political journalism, Age political editor Michael Gordon, says Bill Shorten held up well in the morning onslaught but the exhausting nature of the grilling took its toll in the afternoon. Gordon also highlights an almost surreal edge to the #turc inquisition – a process set up by a Coalition government (who deregulated the industrial relations system and campaigned against union militancy) now taking a moderate union official to task. | The gentleman of Australian political journalism, Age political editor Michael Gordon, says Bill Shorten held up well in the morning onslaught but the exhausting nature of the grilling took its toll in the afternoon. Gordon also highlights an almost surreal edge to the #turc inquisition – a process set up by a Coalition government (who deregulated the industrial relations system and campaigned against union militancy) now taking a moderate union official to task. |
| The more substantial question is whether Mr Shorten acted in the best interests of his members when he led the Australian Workers Union and, while it is premature to draw conclusions, there is an almost surreal edge to this inquisition. Here is the party that wanted to abolish the no-disadvantage test for enterprise agreements taking Mr Shorten to task for allegedly failing to uphold it in one instance. | The more substantial question is whether Mr Shorten acted in the best interests of his members when he led the Australian Workers Union and, while it is premature to draw conclusions, there is an almost surreal edge to this inquisition. Here is the party that wanted to abolish the no-disadvantage test for enterprise agreements taking Mr Shorten to task for allegedly failing to uphold it in one instance. |
| John Lyons at the Australian notes that whether or not the royal commission is a witch-hunt, it remains Shorten’s big test. Lyons thinks the Unibuilt donation knocked Shorten about in the witness box. | John Lyons at the Australian notes that whether or not the royal commission is a witch-hunt, it remains Shorten’s big test. Lyons thinks the Unibuilt donation knocked Shorten about in the witness box. |
| [Shorten’s] former ministerial colleague Greg Combet looked on anxiously as an often defensive Shorten sought to explain away the many unsavoury elements of the Unibilt deal. Was it not a breathtaking conflict of interest that Unibilt was paying for Shorten’s campaign director at a time when Unibilt was about to begin negotiations with the AWU for a new enterprise bargaining agreement? Cue a nervous reach for a glass of water, before Shorten admitted that he had not initially revealed this donation-in-kind in his declaration to the Australian Electoral Commission, only rectifying this days before he was about to appear before the commission. | [Shorten’s] former ministerial colleague Greg Combet looked on anxiously as an often defensive Shorten sought to explain away the many unsavoury elements of the Unibilt deal. Was it not a breathtaking conflict of interest that Unibilt was paying for Shorten’s campaign director at a time when Unibilt was about to begin negotiations with the AWU for a new enterprise bargaining agreement? Cue a nervous reach for a glass of water, before Shorten admitted that he had not initially revealed this donation-in-kind in his declaration to the Australian Electoral Commission, only rectifying this days before he was about to appear before the commission. |
| It was the most damaging moment for Shorten in what was a day-long, bruising battle with Stoljar. | It was the most damaging moment for Shorten in what was a day-long, bruising battle with Stoljar. |
| Updated at 9.47am AEST | Updated at 9.47am AEST |
| 9.20am AEST00:20 | 9.20am AEST00:20 |
| Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of Bill Shorten’s second day in the witness box at the trade union royal commission. Shorten is giving evidence about the period he was secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union Victorian branch – from 1998 to 2006. Shorten also served as the union’s national secretary from 2001 until he entered federal parliament in 2007. | Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of Bill Shorten’s second day in the witness box at the trade union royal commission. Shorten is giving evidence about the period he was secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union Victorian branch – from 1998 to 2006. Shorten also served as the union’s national secretary from 2001 until he entered federal parliament in 2007. |
| Before we launch into #turc day two, let’s recap the highlights from day one. | Before we launch into #turc day two, let’s recap the highlights from day one. |
| So that was Wednesday in the witness box. A couple of additional resources to help you prepare for today. | So that was Wednesday in the witness box. A couple of additional resources to help you prepare for today. |
| If you need to walk back a couple of steps from the specifics of Wednesday, and read up on what this inquisition is all about, you can find a very useful primer by my colleague Daniel Hurst here. Still in primer territory, I linked to this yesterday and will again today. Our colleagues at Fairfax have produced a list of questions Shorten needs to answer. | If you need to walk back a couple of steps from the specifics of Wednesday, and read up on what this inquisition is all about, you can find a very useful primer by my colleague Daniel Hurst here. Still in primer territory, I linked to this yesterday and will again today. Our colleagues at Fairfax have produced a list of questions Shorten needs to answer. |
| If you would like to try and decode Wednesday a little further and contemplate some bigger systemic issues about fundraising and political culture highlighted by Shorten’s testimony at the royal commission, another colleague, Gay Alcorn, has written a terrific analysis which you can find here. | If you would like to try and decode Wednesday a little further and contemplate some bigger systemic issues about fundraising and political culture highlighted by Shorten’s testimony at the royal commission, another colleague, Gay Alcorn, has written a terrific analysis which you can find here. |
| If you’d just like some comic relief, you can find First Dog on The Moon’s depiction of the opposition leader, Stiff Breezington, in the #turc witness box, here. | If you’d just like some comic relief, you can find First Dog on The Moon’s depiction of the opposition leader, Stiff Breezington, in the #turc witness box, here. |
| Shorten is due to take the stand at 10am. | Shorten is due to take the stand at 10am. |
| We’ll continue to read in gently until he appears. The Politics Live comments thread is now open for your business, and you can find me, today, and most days, and some evenings and weekends, depending on how much my family wants to talk to me, on the Twits @murpharoo | We’ll continue to read in gently until he appears. The Politics Live comments thread is now open for your business, and you can find me, today, and most days, and some evenings and weekends, depending on how much my family wants to talk to me, on the Twits @murpharoo |
| Buckle in young #turcs. Here comes B-Day 2.0 | Buckle in young #turcs. Here comes B-Day 2.0 |
| Updated at 9.49am AEST | Updated at 9.49am AEST |