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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
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| Ministers concerned citizenship laws won't return to cabinet – politics live | Ministers concerned citizenship laws won't return to cabinet – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 9.46am AEST00:46 | |
| Just a mild passing observation about the current cabinet dynamic. I noted in the first post Tony Abbott would be brave to drive the citizenship proposal through without showing the full cabinet a small gesture of respect. | |
| Presumably the prime minister feels he can do this because he knows the public is fully on side with citizenship revocations. He’s got the wind at his back, so screw the niceities. | |
| Except decisions like that are ultimately pyrrhic. You win the battle right in front of you, but you lose the war. | |
| Governments, to work, need to be collegiate. People do need to work together and talk and coordinate. It’s always a funny dynamic in politics, given self interest and ambition is the life blood of the artform, putting a premium on cooperation – but cabinet government does matter, and tending the whole does matter. Anyone watching the Killing Season at the moment can see what happens when a government breaks up into warring tribal camps. It’s not good. | |
| John Howard performed the balancing act between fostering competition and collegiality exceptionally well as prime minister. Keeping the whole together was in actual fact, the bedrock of his authority as prime minister. | |
| Abbott is a different character. | |
| 9.22am AEST00:22 | |
| PDuddy. Keeping us safe from lawyer’s fantasy lands. | |
| 9.16am AEST00:16 | |
| Go figure | |
| The immigration minister Peter Dutton has jumped on to Sky News in order to punch Mark Dreyfus. Dreyfus, in making the argument this morning for citizenship revocations requiring a proper judicial process, says alleged jihadists should be brought back to face trials. | |
| You get them back here. | |
| Dutton thinks this is the maddest thing he’s ever heard. He thinks Mark Dreyfus inhabits a lawyer’s fantasy land. | |
| How could Labor contemplate letting these people back into the country? | |
| Having landed his political attack point, Dutton then proceeds to contradict himself. He says the government’s citizenship proposal will contain judicial involvement. He says this is a given. But then in the next sentence he says we are not going to adopt that soft approach of accepting that people need to be tried. So if we follow the logic of that argument, Dutton is not talking about judicial review at all, he’s talking about box ticking. But again, we don’t actually know, because there is still no legislation to look at. | |
| There’s also a bizarre sub-element of this dicussion for those of us who were here last year for the policy discussion about the foreign fighters legislation. Folks with sharp memories will remember the government told us at the time that legislation was necessary to nab bad folks who’d been fighting in no-go zones in the Middle East and throw them in the slammer. Much was made of stopping these people at airports. That ring a bell? | |
| Now, this new legislation that was urgently required to solve a pressing national security problem apparently doesn’t do anything. Dutton says this morning you can’t gather evidence in places overseas and even if you could, it wouldn’t be admissible. (Seriously, what was all the chest beating about last year then? You really cannot have this issue both ways.) | |
| Dutton is asked about the cabinet process, or more precisely, the lack of it. | |
| He says one cabinet minister, a learned colleague, has expressed concerns to him about the citizenship proposal. | |
| He won’t name the learned friend but he says he respects his judgment very much. | |
| I’m speculating here, I want to make that clear, but a learned friend sounds awfully like a lawyer, doesn’t it? Shall we open a book on the concerned lawyer’s name? | |
| Updated at 9.17am AEST | |
| 8.52am AEST23:52 | 8.52am AEST23:52 |
| We’ve .. come too faaaar ... to give upppp ... who we are ... | We’ve .. come too faaaar ... to give upppp ... who we are ... |
| Defying the randomly generated security zone, here’s #BrickPeta Credlin, busting some Top Secret ball moves last night. With a couple of friends. | Defying the randomly generated security zone, here’s #BrickPeta Credlin, busting some Top Secret ball moves last night. With a couple of friends. |
| 8.40am AEST23:40 | 8.40am AEST23:40 |
| The Labor leader Bill Shorten is under some pressure courtesy of the trade union royal commission. Late yesterday The Age published a story saying that one of Australia’s biggest builders paid Shorten’s union nearly $300,000 “after he struck a workplace deal that cut conditions and saved the company as much as $100 million on a major Melbourne road project.” Shorten has already agreed to front the royal commission, he says he’s happy to defend his record as a union offical – but that appearance is not expected until later in the year. The government is unsurprisingly keen to make hay while the sun shines, particularly given Shorten’s other difficulties – the airing of The Killing Season, and Labor’s looming national conference. | The Labor leader Bill Shorten is under some pressure courtesy of the trade union royal commission. Late yesterday The Age published a story saying that one of Australia’s biggest builders paid Shorten’s union nearly $300,000 “after he struck a workplace deal that cut conditions and saved the company as much as $100 million on a major Melbourne road project.” Shorten has already agreed to front the royal commission, he says he’s happy to defend his record as a union offical – but that appearance is not expected until later in the year. The government is unsurprisingly keen to make hay while the sun shines, particularly given Shorten’s other difficulties – the airing of The Killing Season, and Labor’s looming national conference. |
| 8.31am AEST23:31 | 8.31am AEST23:31 |
| Alleged payments to people smugglers is still a big issue. Overnight in London, the former prime minister Julia Gillard has confirmed on the BBC overnight her government never paid people smugglers to turn back boats. | Alleged payments to people smugglers is still a big issue. Overnight in London, the former prime minister Julia Gillard has confirmed on the BBC overnight her government never paid people smugglers to turn back boats. |
| We didn’t have the policy of turning the boats around, so no, Labor did not operate the policy it is now asserted. | We didn’t have the policy of turning the boats around, so no, Labor did not operate the policy it is now asserted. |
| But she doesn’t want to get into other disruption activities that might have happened to our north. | But she doesn’t want to get into other disruption activities that might have happened to our north. |
| Labor is back on the who/what/where/when case, after having a little rest on Tuesday. Accountability is a tiring business I know. | Labor is back on the who/what/where/when case, after having a little rest on Tuesday. Accountability is a tiring business I know. |
| After the government snubbed the Greens return to order in the Senate on Wednesday, the Greens will introduce a motion in the Senate today withholding the introduction of any bills from the immigration minister, Peter Dutton. | After the government snubbed the Greens return to order in the Senate on Wednesday, the Greens will introduce a motion in the Senate today withholding the introduction of any bills from the immigration minister, Peter Dutton. |
| The Greens are also pushing for an inquiry into this (alleged) incident. | The Greens are also pushing for an inquiry into this (alleged) incident. |
| 8.15am AEST23:15 | 8.15am AEST23:15 |
| Shalailah Medhora | Shalailah Medhora |
| While Katharine and Mike have been lifting the lid on the Mid Winter Ball, the finance minister Mathias Cormann has been speaking to reporters downstairs. He’s asked whether the citizenship laws will return to the full cabinet. He suggests not, they will go to the National Security Committee – a small sub-committee of cabinet. | While Katharine and Mike have been lifting the lid on the Mid Winter Ball, the finance minister Mathias Cormann has been speaking to reporters downstairs. He’s asked whether the citizenship laws will return to the full cabinet. He suggests not, they will go to the National Security Committee – a small sub-committee of cabinet. |
| Cormann: | Cormann: |
| These changes have gone and will continue to go through all of the proper internal processes. They’ve already been endorsed by the cabinet. They’ve already been endorsed by the party room. These are matters that the cabinet, as a matter of course, delegates to the national security committee of cabinet and so clearly, this is now a matter for the National Security Committee to deal with, before the matter no doubt will be considered by the party room again. | These changes have gone and will continue to go through all of the proper internal processes. They’ve already been endorsed by the cabinet. They’ve already been endorsed by the party room. These are matters that the cabinet, as a matter of course, delegates to the national security committee of cabinet and so clearly, this is now a matter for the National Security Committee to deal with, before the matter no doubt will be considered by the party room again. |
| 8.09am AEST23:09 | 8.09am AEST23:09 |
| Top Secret | Top Secret |
| Regular readers of Politics Live know Mikearoo and I like to work around the many problems and obstacles daily politics likes to construct in order to prevent us telling you various truths. If you were with us yesterday you’ll know I did some full tilt ranting about the absurdity of the annual Mid Winter Ball being declared (by someone or other) an on water operation. | Regular readers of Politics Live know Mikearoo and I like to work around the many problems and obstacles daily politics likes to construct in order to prevent us telling you various truths. If you were with us yesterday you’ll know I did some full tilt ranting about the absurdity of the annual Mid Winter Ball being declared (by someone or other) an on water operation. |
| Given we can’t give you the real thing, we thought we might give you #BrickBall this morning just so you don’t miss out. | Given we can’t give you the real thing, we thought we might give you #BrickBall this morning just so you don’t miss out. |
| Here’s #BrickTones and #BrickBill doing some late night karaoke with a back up band that includes #WarriorWong on base, #ChristopherYesHe’sAUnicorn on harmonies – and #BrickJoe scoping out a good job down the front. | Here’s #BrickTones and #BrickBill doing some late night karaoke with a back up band that includes #WarriorWong on base, #ChristopherYesHe’sAUnicorn on harmonies – and #BrickJoe scoping out a good job down the front. |
| We can, also, exclusively, reveal That Awkward Moment on the dance floor when #BrickTones and #BrickBill discovered they were out in the same tux. | We can, also, exclusively, reveal That Awkward Moment on the dance floor when #BrickTones and #BrickBill discovered they were out in the same tux. |
| Daft Punks. Get down. | Daft Punks. Get down. |
| 7.48am AEST22:48 | 7.48am AEST22:48 |
| Good morning and welcome to the night after the event we are not supposed to talk about for reasons I still don’t comprehend. Today’s forecast: don’t ask, don’t tell. | Good morning and welcome to the night after the event we are not supposed to talk about for reasons I still don’t comprehend. Today’s forecast: don’t ask, don’t tell. |
| Despite the fact the younger folks amongst us are only just now casting off their penguin suits, the political day is already thundering like a freight train. We should begin Thursday with the witches brew that is citizenship revocations. It was clear yesterday that the government’s internal troubles on this issue are far from over. There were complaints that senior ministers had not been given access to advice from the Solicitor General on a proposal that many eminent lawyers think may well be unconstitutional. | Despite the fact the younger folks amongst us are only just now casting off their penguin suits, the political day is already thundering like a freight train. We should begin Thursday with the witches brew that is citizenship revocations. It was clear yesterday that the government’s internal troubles on this issue are far from over. There were complaints that senior ministers had not been given access to advice from the Solicitor General on a proposal that many eminent lawyers think may well be unconstitutional. |
| The purpose of injecting these complaints into the news cycle was clear: some folks are concerned that citizenship will not return to cabinet before it hits the Coaliton partyroom and the parliament, allegedly early next week. (I say allegedly because there’s been talk about this issue since January 2014, and there’s still not one jot of detail.) You might well ask the obvious question. How can it not return to cabinet, given cabinet boiled over on the issue when it was before it a couple of weeks ago? Well, the prime minister could argue the in-principle mandate he was given last time to pursue the first round of legislation for dual citizens means it doesn’t need another detailed discussion. I suspect this would be a brave call on the part of the prime minister, but let’s face it, Tony Abbott is a brave man. | The purpose of injecting these complaints into the news cycle was clear: some folks are concerned that citizenship will not return to cabinet before it hits the Coaliton partyroom and the parliament, allegedly early next week. (I say allegedly because there’s been talk about this issue since January 2014, and there’s still not one jot of detail.) You might well ask the obvious question. How can it not return to cabinet, given cabinet boiled over on the issue when it was before it a couple of weeks ago? Well, the prime minister could argue the in-principle mandate he was given last time to pursue the first round of legislation for dual citizens means it doesn’t need another detailed discussion. I suspect this would be a brave call on the part of the prime minister, but let’s face it, Tony Abbott is a brave man. |
| Labor for its part is playing push-me-pull-you. The opposition said about a week ago it was on board with this proposal, more or less. But each passing day has Labor less on board with the citizenship proposal unless it includes full judicial review. | Labor for its part is playing push-me-pull-you. The opposition said about a week ago it was on board with this proposal, more or less. But each passing day has Labor less on board with the citizenship proposal unless it includes full judicial review. |
| The shadow attorney-general, Mark Dreyfus, has done the early shift on AM. He’s told the host Michael Brissenden Labor supports calm and clear action to protect Australia’s national security but there’s been little calm or clear action on citizenship, there has only been endless talk, no action, and division. He’s added Labor will work constructively with the government in this space but that doesn’t mean we’ll support every single measure. | The shadow attorney-general, Mark Dreyfus, has done the early shift on AM. He’s told the host Michael Brissenden Labor supports calm and clear action to protect Australia’s national security but there’s been little calm or clear action on citizenship, there has only been endless talk, no action, and division. He’s added Labor will work constructively with the government in this space but that doesn’t mean we’ll support every single measure. |
| Lots more on the go, so let’s hop into it. The Politics Live thread is a virgin landscape, so make sure you go in there and clutter it right up. You can also clutter up mightily on the Twits. I’m @murpharoo and Mikearoo’s @mpbowers | Lots more on the go, so let’s hop into it. The Politics Live thread is a virgin landscape, so make sure you go in there and clutter it right up. You can also clutter up mightily on the Twits. I’m @murpharoo and Mikearoo’s @mpbowers |
| Put on sensible shoes for a brisk walk in buffeting winds for ten hours or so. Here comes Thursday. | Put on sensible shoes for a brisk walk in buffeting winds for ten hours or so. Here comes Thursday. |
| Updated at 7.48am AEST | Updated at 7.48am AEST |