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Northern Ireland welfare reform debate goes ahead Northern Ireland welfare reform debate goes ahead
(35 minutes later)
Northern Ireland Assembly members are debating the final stage of the controversial welfare reform bill.Northern Ireland Assembly members are debating the final stage of the controversial welfare reform bill.
It is proceeding despite Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson's admission to hospital with a suspected heart attack on Monday.It is proceeding despite Northern Ireland First Minister Peter Robinson's admission to hospital with a suspected heart attack on Monday.
However, it is expected the welfare reform bill will be vetoed. However, it is expected the welfare reform bill will be blocked.
Sinn Féin and the SDLP have signed a petition of concern, which means the bill will not get the necessary cross-community support.Sinn Féin and the SDLP have signed a petition of concern, which means the bill will not get the necessary cross-community support.
Green Party leader Steven Agnew has also signed the petition.Green Party leader Steven Agnew has also signed the petition.
He said: "There have been no significant changes to what has been proposed and this has left me with no option but to sign a petition of concern."He said: "There have been no significant changes to what has been proposed and this has left me with no option but to sign a petition of concern."
The debate comes a day after Mr Robinson, 66, was taken to the Ulster Hospital, Dundonald. The leader of the Democratic Unionist Party was then transferred to Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital (RVH) where he underwent a procedure.The debate comes a day after Mr Robinson, 66, was taken to the Ulster Hospital, Dundonald. The leader of the Democratic Unionist Party was then transferred to Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital (RVH) where he underwent a procedure.
But DUP sources told the BBC the first minister's illness did not change the urgent nature of the deadline facing the Stormont parties for agreeing a budget.But DUP sources told the BBC the first minister's illness did not change the urgent nature of the deadline facing the Stormont parties for agreeing a budget.
Social Development Minister Mervyn Storey of the DUP moved the bill on Tuesday, even though nationalist opposition means his measure looks doomed.Social Development Minister Mervyn Storey of the DUP moved the bill on Tuesday, even though nationalist opposition means his measure looks doomed.
Mr Storey told MLAs that the "time for talking" was over.Mr Storey told MLAs that the "time for talking" was over.
What is a petition of concern?What is a petition of concern?
The measure was designed as a way to safeguard minority rights in Stormont's power-sharing assembly.The measure was designed as a way to safeguard minority rights in Stormont's power-sharing assembly.
If a petition of concern is presented to the assembly speaker, any motion or amendment will need cross-community support.If a petition of concern is presented to the assembly speaker, any motion or amendment will need cross-community support.
In such cases, a vote on proposed legislation will only pass if supported by a weighted majority (60%) of members voting, including at least 40% of each of the nationalist and unionist designations present and voting.In such cases, a vote on proposed legislation will only pass if supported by a weighted majority (60%) of members voting, including at least 40% of each of the nationalist and unionist designations present and voting.
Effectively this means that, provided enough MLAs from a particular community agree, that community can exercise a veto over the assembly's decisions.Effectively this means that, provided enough MLAs from a particular community agree, that community can exercise a veto over the assembly's decisions.
"Now is the time for decisions, for getting on with the implementation of reforms," he said."Now is the time for decisions, for getting on with the implementation of reforms," he said.
He said there was a "tremendous responsibility on this House", adding "either we adopt the bill... or we don't and give way to an immensely worse outcome for those we serve".He said there was a "tremendous responsibility on this House", adding "either we adopt the bill... or we don't and give way to an immensely worse outcome for those we serve".
Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said the political institutions in Northern Ireland were facing a growing crisis.Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said the political institutions in Northern Ireland were facing a growing crisis.
He said Sinn Féin concerns were "bigger than the issue of welfare".He said Sinn Féin concerns were "bigger than the issue of welfare".
"Our concern is wider than that. It's around the grave implications of further cuts threatened by the Tories.""Our concern is wider than that. It's around the grave implications of further cuts threatened by the Tories."
The SDLP's Dolores Kelly said the threat of fines from the government over welfare reform was like a "gun put at our head today, metaphorically".The SDLP's Dolores Kelly said the threat of fines from the government over welfare reform was like a "gun put at our head today, metaphorically".
Mrs Kelly said it was not too late for the parties to get around a table "and thrash out all of the concerns we have" with regard to welfare reform. Mrs Kelly said it was not too late for the parties to get around a table "and thrash out all of the concerns we have" over welfare reform.
Ulster Unionist Roy Beggs said it was "the most difficult and controversial bill" that the assembly has debated in recent times, and his party did not favour all its contents.Ulster Unionist Roy Beggs said it was "the most difficult and controversial bill" that the assembly has debated in recent times, and his party did not favour all its contents.
"We do have choices. If this bill is not approved we will be the only part of the UK using the old benefits system, there will be less funds in many other public areas," he said."We do have choices. If this bill is not approved we will be the only part of the UK using the old benefits system, there will be less funds in many other public areas," he said.
"Let's be clear - there's no money tree, there's no going back asking for more money. We've been there lots of times over the past three years."Let's be clear - there's no money tree, there's no going back asking for more money. We've been there lots of times over the past three years.
Alliance Party leader David Ford said while his party opposed many parts of the bill, they would nonetheless support its passage.Alliance Party leader David Ford said while his party opposed many parts of the bill, they would nonetheless support its passage.
"We have to live within the administrative possibilities, we have to live within the financial realities," he said."We have to live within the administrative possibilities, we have to live within the financial realities," he said.
First and Deputy First Ministers' Question Time has been dropped from business on Tuesday due to Mr Robinson's illness. He added: "The reality is that if we do not agree this bill, we have the prospect of full blooded Tory cuts with no amelioration whatsoever," he said.
Gregory Campbell, of the DUP, said: "What we have is not perfect. It is rather imperfect."
"Do we sit tight and then it gets worse because that's what's going to happen, it's going to get worse," he said.
"Or do we adopt the better way and try to mitigate against the worst excesses of a welfare reform system that everybody else in the UK admits is better than what they have?"
First and Deputy First Ministers' Question Time was dropped from business on Tuesday due to Mr Robinson's illness.
The assembly has now been suspended until 14:00 BST.
Ahead of the debate, Finance Minister Arlene Foster of the DUP said: "The choice is very clear today, we either back the bill or we allow the bill to fall, which means that all of those top-ups that were negotiated will fall, the conditional support will fall, we'll continue to have to have the levies, the fines from Westminster of £9.5m per month currently - and those are going to increase.Ahead of the debate, Finance Minister Arlene Foster of the DUP said: "The choice is very clear today, we either back the bill or we allow the bill to fall, which means that all of those top-ups that were negotiated will fall, the conditional support will fall, we'll continue to have to have the levies, the fines from Westminster of £9.5m per month currently - and those are going to increase.
"And of course we have a £600m pressure in relation to our budget."And of course we have a £600m pressure in relation to our budget.
"But Sinn Féin knows what the choice is. Everybody's walking into this bill today and they know the consequences if they don't back the bill.""But Sinn Féin knows what the choice is. Everybody's walking into this bill today and they know the consequences if they don't back the bill."
'Negotiate this out' Presuming the bill is rejected later on Tuesday, the executive faces a difficult situation, with the Finance Minister, Arlene Foster, calculating the Stormont departments will have to deal with around £600m in cuts.
However, Sinn Féin's John O'Dowd said: "There's always a choice and we have a choice.
"Even if it's 12 hours or 24 hours or 36 hours over the remaining period of this week we have an opportunity to remove the bill for that period of time and for the political parties to sit round the table and talk this out and negotiate this out.
"If there's one thing we've learned over the last 15 to 20 years it's that negotiation can overcome what was thought as a very difficult problems."
Ulster Unionist Roy Beggs said: "I think we all have to be realistic and accept that a new government has just been elected into Westminster and they are not going to change and suddenly start treating Northern Ireland differently from other parts of the UK.
"I think to continue to take that line is irresponsible and will result in quite a crisis in Northern Ireland and a crisis that will result in the most vulnerable in our community suffering, because ultimately I would believe significant monies would need to be taken out of our health service in order to balance the budget."
Presuming the bill is rejected later on Tuesday, the executive faces an almost impossible situation, with the Finance Minister, Arlene Foster, calculating the Stormont departments will have to deal with around £600m in cuts.
BBC Northern Ireland political editor Mark Devenport says that assuming the parties cannot agree to impose such a budget, the Northern Ireland Office may face fresh pressure to intervene.BBC Northern Ireland political editor Mark Devenport says that assuming the parties cannot agree to impose such a budget, the Northern Ireland Office may face fresh pressure to intervene.
Last week, Mr Robinson warned that the assembly could not survive the scenario that would unfold if the welfare reform bill was not approved.Last week, Mr Robinson warned that the assembly could not survive the scenario that would unfold if the welfare reform bill was not approved.
The Northern Ireland parties had agreed a deal on Westminster's welfare reform in the Stormont House Agreement last December.The Northern Ireland parties had agreed a deal on Westminster's welfare reform in the Stormont House Agreement last December.
However, Sinn Féin withdrew its support for the bill in March.However, Sinn Féin withdrew its support for the bill in March.