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| Nazir Afzal: ‘Young people are easily led. Our anti-radicalisation schemes need to be cleverer’ | Nazir Afzal: ‘Young people are easily led. Our anti-radicalisation schemes need to be cleverer’ |
| (34 minutes later) | |
| With all crimes, it is the criminal – not their community – who is responsible. In 1974, the IRA murdered my father’s cousin. He had been working with my father as a caterer for the British Army in Northern Ireland. They dragged him into a van and shot him in the head at close range in front of another cousin, who they released to send a message to my family that they should stop offering services to the army. Despite their horrific intentions, my family could not allow the terrorists’ plans to succeed; and my father stayed for another 10 years. But we never blamed Irish Catholics for the murder of our family member. | With all crimes, it is the criminal – not their community – who is responsible. In 1974, the IRA murdered my father’s cousin. He had been working with my father as a caterer for the British Army in Northern Ireland. They dragged him into a van and shot him in the head at close range in front of another cousin, who they released to send a message to my family that they should stop offering services to the army. Despite their horrific intentions, my family could not allow the terrorists’ plans to succeed; and my father stayed for another 10 years. But we never blamed Irish Catholics for the murder of our family member. |
| I kept this in mind when I prosecuted the sexual grooming cases in Rochdale in 2012. As chief crown prosecutor, I could not say what I wanted to about terrorism, but I stepped down last Tuesday because I would rather work for an organisation that prevents harm from happening in the first place. And I see parallels between radicalisation and sexual grooming. | I kept this in mind when I prosecuted the sexual grooming cases in Rochdale in 2012. As chief crown prosecutor, I could not say what I wanted to about terrorism, but I stepped down last Tuesday because I would rather work for an organisation that prevents harm from happening in the first place. And I see parallels between radicalisation and sexual grooming. |
| Young people are easily led. With sexual grooming, the perpetrators take those who feel unwanted and unloved, manipulate them, then abuse them. With radicalisation, it’s the same; perpetrators take teenagers who feel misunderstood, show them propaganda about a better world and a better life, and distance them from their family and friends. Then they take them. | Young people are easily led. With sexual grooming, the perpetrators take those who feel unwanted and unloved, manipulate them, then abuse them. With radicalisation, it’s the same; perpetrators take teenagers who feel misunderstood, show them propaganda about a better world and a better life, and distance them from their family and friends. Then they take them. |
| Radicalisation is more complicated than people would like to think. Partly it is about a growing communication gap between parents and children. In some communities this might lead to drinking or drug-taking – but with Muslim communities, at the moment, this desire for escapism can allow our young people to be manipulated. | Radicalisation is more complicated than people would like to think. Partly it is about a growing communication gap between parents and children. In some communities this might lead to drinking or drug-taking – but with Muslim communities, at the moment, this desire for escapism can allow our young people to be manipulated. |
| I have met parents who say, “I am so happy my children don’t go out. They aren’t off with boyfriends or girlfriends, they aren’t clubbing or taking drugs – they are upstairs, online.” For the parents, that is their job done. They don’t think about what they are doing on the internet. | I have met parents who say, “I am so happy my children don’t go out. They aren’t off with boyfriends or girlfriends, they aren’t clubbing or taking drugs – they are upstairs, online.” For the parents, that is their job done. They don’t think about what they are doing on the internet. |
| I am very concerned about the deficit in leadership in our community. I see old men – like me – from middle-class backgrounds representing Muslim communities that are invariably young (48% of British muslims are under 25), majority female and from low-income backgrounds. They don’t understand what they are dealing with. Those young people are looking for something else, something better, and unless we provide that they will be taken. But what do we offer? Too often our community climbs the ladder and then pulls it up behind us. As the former chair of the charity Mosaic, which does a lot of mentoring, I have noticed that the only lawyers the young people in these areas see are on TV, and the only doctors they know are the ones who treat them. | |
| When anyone asks about multicultural society, I say a rights-based society is more important. | When anyone asks about multicultural society, I say a rights-based society is more important. |
| With women and girls, we tell them to work hard in school, but then marry them off when they finish. We deny them the right to marry who they want and when they want, and then deny them the right to leave if they are abused, in case it damages the family’s honour. We have to stand up for the rights of young people because, if we infringe them, they will look for something better. | With women and girls, we tell them to work hard in school, but then marry them off when they finish. We deny them the right to marry who they want and when they want, and then deny them the right to leave if they are abused, in case it damages the family’s honour. We have to stand up for the rights of young people because, if we infringe them, they will look for something better. |
| Those who are radicalised are made to believe they are hated here in the UK, but while hate crime does exist, it is a minority sport. I’ve seen it – after Rochdale, I got 17,000 emails and letters from the far right, calling for me to be sacked and deported; I had an EDL demonstration at the top of my street and a police presence outside my house; I was doorstepped by Nick Griffin. No one should be punished for their identity – but we have to focus on our strengths and not let the things that are done to us define that identity. We should be promoting our successes and nuturing leadership; we should support those climbing the ladder. | Those who are radicalised are made to believe they are hated here in the UK, but while hate crime does exist, it is a minority sport. I’ve seen it – after Rochdale, I got 17,000 emails and letters from the far right, calling for me to be sacked and deported; I had an EDL demonstration at the top of my street and a police presence outside my house; I was doorstepped by Nick Griffin. No one should be punished for their identity – but we have to focus on our strengths and not let the things that are done to us define that identity. We should be promoting our successes and nuturing leadership; we should support those climbing the ladder. |
| The government programmes to counter radicalisation, such as Channel and Prevent, are stale. And how can we say they work when 600 people have gone to Syria? They have a bad reputation; young people care about reputations. The vast majority of people I work with involved in the schemes believe they have passed their sell-by date. For the people they are meant to engage with, their eyes glaze over as soon as Channel or Prevent are mentioned. | The government programmes to counter radicalisation, such as Channel and Prevent, are stale. And how can we say they work when 600 people have gone to Syria? They have a bad reputation; young people care about reputations. The vast majority of people I work with involved in the schemes believe they have passed their sell-by date. For the people they are meant to engage with, their eyes glaze over as soon as Channel or Prevent are mentioned. |
| The problem is that these programmes are seen as government-led rather than community-led; they are top-down rather than bottom-up. As such, suspicions arise as to their motives. The first defence of any child is the parents – no parent wants to see their child be whisked away – but these programmes are rarely seen as working with families or communities. As a result, rather than schemes that are in place to help families, they are perceived as a stick to beat them with; a policing tool. | The problem is that these programmes are seen as government-led rather than community-led; they are top-down rather than bottom-up. As such, suspicions arise as to their motives. The first defence of any child is the parents – no parent wants to see their child be whisked away – but these programmes are rarely seen as working with families or communities. As a result, rather than schemes that are in place to help families, they are perceived as a stick to beat them with; a policing tool. |
| We need to bring in different faces and organisations. There are plenty of people who have had a brush with extremists, been tempted by the dark side, but stepped back – they would better understand the young who are currently being targeted. We have to be cleverer and start funding grassroots activists who make a difference, not just people who can put together a 50-page business plan. | We need to bring in different faces and organisations. There are plenty of people who have had a brush with extremists, been tempted by the dark side, but stepped back – they would better understand the young who are currently being targeted. We have to be cleverer and start funding grassroots activists who make a difference, not just people who can put together a 50-page business plan. |
| On my mother’s street in Birmingham, there is a woman who everyone calls “Auntyji”; she may not be anyone’s aunty, but all the young girls know they can go to her if they want to chat or need pastoral care. The state should be saying that the organisations it funds in this arena are at least 25% women, with a plan to be at least 50% in three years. If you look at forced marriage and child sexual abuse, the best work is done by women: survivors who go into their schools and tell girls about their rights. | On my mother’s street in Birmingham, there is a woman who everyone calls “Auntyji”; she may not be anyone’s aunty, but all the young girls know they can go to her if they want to chat or need pastoral care. The state should be saying that the organisations it funds in this arena are at least 25% women, with a plan to be at least 50% in three years. If you look at forced marriage and child sexual abuse, the best work is done by women: survivors who go into their schools and tell girls about their rights. |
| We need to have challenging conversations within the community, too. When I mention to community leaders that one in nine prisoners is Muslim, and the majority are in there for drug offences, they turn the other cheek. Our young people, our women and our poor need better leadership. | We need to have challenging conversations within the community, too. When I mention to community leaders that one in nine prisoners is Muslim, and the majority are in there for drug offences, they turn the other cheek. Our young people, our women and our poor need better leadership. |
| As told to Homa Khaleeli | As told to Homa Khaleeli |