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| Watching the detectors | Watching the detectors |
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| Will this be how the day begins for pupils arriving at school? FAMILY ROOM By Sean Coughlan BBC News Metal detectors are soon to be in UK schools, but do such security measures make us feel more scared, not less? | Will this be how the day begins for pupils arriving at school? FAMILY ROOM By Sean Coughlan BBC News Metal detectors are soon to be in UK schools, but do such security measures make us feel more scared, not less? |
| Would you want to send your child to a school that needs a scanning machine to catch the weapons being smuggled in? | Would you want to send your child to a school that needs a scanning machine to catch the weapons being smuggled in? |
| A head teacher smiling over a haul of recovered blades isn't exactly the picture in the school prospectus that's going to make families move house for a place. | A head teacher smiling over a haul of recovered blades isn't exactly the picture in the school prospectus that's going to make families move house for a place. |
| Airport-style metal detectors could soon be installed in hundreds of schools, as part of the government's new violent crime action plan. Senior police officers and head teachers are said to back the scheme. | |
| Scanners the norm in US schools | Scanners the norm in US schools |
| It might deter knives, but it's also likely going to do the same for parents. Did we rear them through the Barbie years for this kind of danger? | It might deter knives, but it's also likely going to do the same for parents. Did we rear them through the Barbie years for this kind of danger? |
| Like those children's overcoats with a built-in microchip for satellite tracking, it's meant to send a message of reassurance but instead produces goose bumps of paranoia. Ditto stab-proof blazers advertised last summer. | Like those children's overcoats with a built-in microchip for satellite tracking, it's meant to send a message of reassurance but instead produces goose bumps of paranoia. Ditto stab-proof blazers advertised last summer. |
| Of course, if putting scanners into schools keeps out knives and saves children from injury, then it will all be worthwhile. | Of course, if putting scanners into schools keeps out knives and saves children from injury, then it will all be worthwhile. |
| But once security is introduced it's usually there for keeps, regardless of its usefulness. In fact, it tends to escalate. | But once security is introduced it's usually there for keeps, regardless of its usefulness. In fact, it tends to escalate. |
| Security inflation | Security inflation |
| After Chicago schools all got metal detectors they started installing X-ray machines as well. Then a full-scale teenage curfew. It would be a brave politician who ever announced the time had come for less security. | After Chicago schools all got metal detectors they started installing X-ray machines as well. Then a full-scale teenage curfew. It would be a brave politician who ever announced the time had come for less security. |
| Only five years ago, a call for metal detectors in UK schools was rejected as an extreme overreaction and unnecessary. "This is a much saner society," said a children's rights campaigner at the time. Have we become so much less sane so quickly? | Only five years ago, a call for metal detectors in UK schools was rejected as an extreme overreaction and unnecessary. "This is a much saner society," said a children's rights campaigner at the time. Have we become so much less sane so quickly? |
| Mobile scanning machines are already used by police | Mobile scanning machines are already used by police |
| These school scanners are being described as "airport-style" which is an even gloomier example to follow. Again, we all know why airline security is there, but it's a weary prospect beginning a holiday by watching pensioners having to take off their shoes and have their toothpaste checked. | These school scanners are being described as "airport-style" which is an even gloomier example to follow. Again, we all know why airline security is there, but it's a weary prospect beginning a holiday by watching pensioners having to take off their shoes and have their toothpaste checked. |
| Security begins in response to a short-term emergency and ends up as long-term hassle. | Security begins in response to a short-term emergency and ends up as long-term hassle. |
| Now we're going to have gaggles of youngsters having their bags scanned. Will we be telling our own children that in our day there were no school gate searches? And they'll look at us disbelievingly, as though we'd told them that we used to smoke in restaurants. | Now we're going to have gaggles of youngsters having their bags scanned. Will we be telling our own children that in our day there were no school gate searches? And they'll look at us disbelievingly, as though we'd told them that we used to smoke in restaurants. |
| But if it reduces the risk of violence, then why the mixed feelings? Maybe it's because it feels like we're avoiding something more uncomfortable. | But if it reduces the risk of violence, then why the mixed feelings? Maybe it's because it feels like we're avoiding something more uncomfortable. |
| Temporary scanners | Temporary scanners |
| Announcing the use of extra technology might sound like getting tough, but really it's an admission of a sense of powerlessness. As a community, we can't keep ourselves safe, we can't stop this knife-carrying madness. | Announcing the use of extra technology might sound like getting tough, but really it's an admission of a sense of powerlessness. As a community, we can't keep ourselves safe, we can't stop this knife-carrying madness. |
| There are already handheld scanners used at one of my local train stations. And once people are through the check and on the train, passengers get back to being afraid of strangers. A detector can't stop aggressive and crazy behaviour. | There are already handheld scanners used at one of my local train stations. And once people are through the check and on the train, passengers get back to being afraid of strangers. A detector can't stop aggressive and crazy behaviour. |
| US schools use X-ray machines and metal detectors | US schools use X-ray machines and metal detectors |
| The cities of Britain are bristling with security cameras, signs warning of fines, threats about police intervention - and now there are going to be more metal detectors. | The cities of Britain are bristling with security cameras, signs warning of fines, threats about police intervention - and now there are going to be more metal detectors. |
| Sadly, it doesn't mean anything if you're too scared to walk down your own street after dark and if you're lying awake worrying about your children's safety. | Sadly, it doesn't mean anything if you're too scared to walk down your own street after dark and if you're lying awake worrying about your children's safety. |
| Installing the scanners also ducks the question: what are these youngsters doing with knives in the first place? | Installing the scanners also ducks the question: what are these youngsters doing with knives in the first place? |
| There wasn't a need for metal detectors in years gone by, because social pressure - parents, family, other adults - carried out the enforcement much more effectively. | There wasn't a need for metal detectors in years gone by, because social pressure - parents, family, other adults - carried out the enforcement much more effectively. |
| We live in strange times when adults are afraid of youngsters, and we use a machine to stop children from bringing lethal weapons into a classroom. | We live in strange times when adults are afraid of youngsters, and we use a machine to stop children from bringing lethal weapons into a classroom. |
| Below is a selection of your comments. | Below is a selection of your comments. |
| A pupil at my son's school was involved in a stabbing incident - but it took place outside the school gate. This has been the case with a number of other high profile incidents. Metal detectors in schools will do nothing to deal with these incidents and will only make them more likely. This initiative has more to do with politicians wanting appear tough than any real attempt to deal with the problem.Martin Jones, London | A pupil at my son's school was involved in a stabbing incident - but it took place outside the school gate. This has been the case with a number of other high profile incidents. Metal detectors in schools will do nothing to deal with these incidents and will only make them more likely. This initiative has more to do with politicians wanting appear tough than any real attempt to deal with the problem.Martin Jones, London |
| Being scanned for weapons daily will only add to the sense of fear and will mean that more, not less, young people feel they need to carry weapons on the streets.Daniel, London | Being scanned for weapons daily will only add to the sense of fear and will mean that more, not less, young people feel they need to carry weapons on the streets.Daniel, London |
| Adopting the joke security measures used at airports won't help - 1. the simple methods of bypassing them will become more common knowledge and 2. many legitimate items carried by students will give rise to false positives. As a school governor I will oppose any such proposal.Megan, Cheshire | Adopting the joke security measures used at airports won't help - 1. the simple methods of bypassing them will become more common knowledge and 2. many legitimate items carried by students will give rise to false positives. As a school governor I will oppose any such proposal.Megan, Cheshire |
| Any school that feels the need to treat its students as criminals has got far bigger issues than knife crime.Jeremy, London | Any school that feels the need to treat its students as criminals has got far bigger issues than knife crime.Jeremy, London |
| I would have hoped that the idea of installing metal detectors in schools was so patently ridiculous, nobody would even consider it.Ben, Derby | I would have hoped that the idea of installing metal detectors in schools was so patently ridiculous, nobody would even consider it.Ben, Derby |
| How can you say that this shouldn't happen? I'm sure your outlook would be different if your son or daughter was stabbed in school! I'm not being funny, but with the way this country is at the moment being ghettoised we need to start somewhere!Luke, London | How can you say that this shouldn't happen? I'm sure your outlook would be different if your son or daughter was stabbed in school! I'm not being funny, but with the way this country is at the moment being ghettoised we need to start somewhere!Luke, London |
| What a waste of time and money, schools are not airports, they are not secure- so if someone wants to get a knife into a school grounds they can. Walk through the detectors then collect the knife they have hidden in the grounds. Even if you could secure the perimeter would you want to? Should schools not be at the centre of a community.Mark , Wolverhampton | What a waste of time and money, schools are not airports, they are not secure- so if someone wants to get a knife into a school grounds they can. Walk through the detectors then collect the knife they have hidden in the grounds. Even if you could secure the perimeter would you want to? Should schools not be at the centre of a community.Mark , Wolverhampton |
| If a pupil wants to stab someone they could wait for a compulsory cooking lesson and use a vegtable knife.Ben Callard, Manchester | If a pupil wants to stab someone they could wait for a compulsory cooking lesson and use a vegtable knife.Ben Callard, Manchester |
| This is a pointless measure that will do nothing to weed the knives or the knife carrying individuals out of our society. Tough and visible policing is what is needed with hefty custodial sentences. A zero tolerance policy is what's required. Somehow the parents need to have their arms twisted into reining these out of control teens in - I don't have any suggestions for that. Tellingly in the 7 months that I've been living at my current address I have never once seen a police officer walking down my street despite being frequently harassed for money or my mobile by youths that hang around the area and more shockingly their was a shooting at the end of the road 2 Saturdays ago and the police still aren't patrolling the area! Lastly I think as a nation we need to have a long hard look at ourselves and address our fear of our own progeny. I for one am tired of being afraid of everyone under the age of 20.Tom Blyth, Peckham | This is a pointless measure that will do nothing to weed the knives or the knife carrying individuals out of our society. Tough and visible policing is what is needed with hefty custodial sentences. A zero tolerance policy is what's required. Somehow the parents need to have their arms twisted into reining these out of control teens in - I don't have any suggestions for that. Tellingly in the 7 months that I've been living at my current address I have never once seen a police officer walking down my street despite being frequently harassed for money or my mobile by youths that hang around the area and more shockingly their was a shooting at the end of the road 2 Saturdays ago and the police still aren't patrolling the area! Lastly I think as a nation we need to have a long hard look at ourselves and address our fear of our own progeny. I for one am tired of being afraid of everyone under the age of 20.Tom Blyth, Peckham |
| Of course this is needed. People are always talking about how schools should feel safe, how they should be at the centre of the community? Well this is one way to help it become more safe and do its bit for the community. I have friends who are teachers and im sure that this idea would make life a lot easier for them. Were not treating the children as criminals, were trying to prevent them becoming criminals. Theres a difference.James Taggart, London | Of course this is needed. People are always talking about how schools should feel safe, how they should be at the centre of the community? Well this is one way to help it become more safe and do its bit for the community. I have friends who are teachers and im sure that this idea would make life a lot easier for them. Were not treating the children as criminals, were trying to prevent them becoming criminals. Theres a difference.James Taggart, London |
| As a student at school I can not say I have seen any need for such measures. I can say I have carried a pen knife to school on more than one occasion (not for violent purposes!) simply because it's on my set of keys and I use it frequently in order to unscrew/open things. I have it because my parents deem me of being capable of carrying it sensibly. Does this ethos not exist elsewhere? Lawrence, Leicester | As a student at school I can not say I have seen any need for such measures. I can say I have carried a pen knife to school on more than one occasion (not for violent purposes!) simply because it's on my set of keys and I use it frequently in order to unscrew/open things. I have it because my parents deem me of being capable of carrying it sensibly. Does this ethos not exist elsewhere? Lawrence, Leicester |
| Struggling through one of the roughest schools in my area I saw the need for tighter security back in 1997. Now my old comprehensive school has 6-foot gates around every section of the school. I am incredibly glad that the scanners are being introduced; if it saves one young life then it will have been worth it. Anyone who says it is a waste hasn¿t been to school in quite some time or is only looking at the figures. It is a sad thing that the scanners are being considered but we don¿t live in a fluffy dream cloud kind of world. Gangs and many other negative things are influencing younger and younger kids; shouldn¿t we at least be deterring these behaviours and make children feel safe during their education.Diane Treseder, Swansea | Struggling through one of the roughest schools in my area I saw the need for tighter security back in 1997. Now my old comprehensive school has 6-foot gates around every section of the school. I am incredibly glad that the scanners are being introduced; if it saves one young life then it will have been worth it. Anyone who says it is a waste hasn¿t been to school in quite some time or is only looking at the figures. It is a sad thing that the scanners are being considered but we don¿t live in a fluffy dream cloud kind of world. Gangs and many other negative things are influencing younger and younger kids; shouldn¿t we at least be deterring these behaviours and make children feel safe during their education.Diane Treseder, Swansea |
| In a building full of pens, compasses, bunsen burners, saws, hammers, ovens, and various other tools with which any slightly inventive teenager could potentially do damage to others, is this not an unecessary expense which causes real fear and almost encourages students to try to sneak weapons past the detectors?Chloe, Chelmsford | In a building full of pens, compasses, bunsen burners, saws, hammers, ovens, and various other tools with which any slightly inventive teenager could potentially do damage to others, is this not an unecessary expense which causes real fear and almost encourages students to try to sneak weapons past the detectors?Chloe, Chelmsford |
| As the correspondent says, our streets are bristling with electronic surveillance and yet crime has got work, because electronic surveillance only works after the fact. Police and other people in authority need to be present and to have the desire and the powers needed to sort this problem out, instead we have retrested behind yet another security barrier. This is not action, it is reaction. It will not work.Pete, Leeds | As the correspondent says, our streets are bristling with electronic surveillance and yet crime has got work, because electronic surveillance only works after the fact. Police and other people in authority need to be present and to have the desire and the powers needed to sort this problem out, instead we have retrested behind yet another security barrier. This is not action, it is reaction. It will not work.Pete, Leeds |
| This is just encouraging self-fulfilling prophecy if we treat them as criminals then that is what they will become, the problem lies with the individuals not the generation.Caron, Shrewsbury | This is just encouraging self-fulfilling prophecy if we treat them as criminals then that is what they will become, the problem lies with the individuals not the generation.Caron, Shrewsbury |
| So the kids will sling them over the fence and pick them up later.... Inner city US schools that typically have these devices are built like prisons. Another "sop" for the masses and the red tops. Try going back to that '97 election promise "tough on the causes of crime" - still got my little card...Chris, Brighton | So the kids will sling them over the fence and pick them up later.... Inner city US schools that typically have these devices are built like prisons. Another "sop" for the masses and the red tops. Try going back to that '97 election promise "tough on the causes of crime" - still got my little card...Chris, Brighton |
| We are all going soft in the head. Anybody carrying a knife on their person should be given a mandatory custodial sentence, especially those carrying a knife to school. I say 3 years minimum. Anybody carrying a gun should be given 5 years custodial, without trial. There is no excuse to carry these weapons.John, London | We are all going soft in the head. Anybody carrying a knife on their person should be given a mandatory custodial sentence, especially those carrying a knife to school. I say 3 years minimum. Anybody carrying a gun should be given 5 years custodial, without trial. There is no excuse to carry these weapons.John, London |
| Yet another New Labour 'gimmick' to make the population think that they are actually doing something about youth crime. How will scanners in schools stop youths from carrying knives. Most knife crime is committed outside of school and often by youths either not at school or truant from school. Surely, resources to conmbat the knife culture should be tatgeted towards stop and search, 'real' punishment like as long custodial sentences for those convicted of knife related crime. No cautions, slap on the wrist etc, the country is facing an epidemic of youth crime and real action is required not gimmicks.Clive Walker, Exeter Devon | Yet another New Labour 'gimmick' to make the population think that they are actually doing something about youth crime. How will scanners in schools stop youths from carrying knives. Most knife crime is committed outside of school and often by youths either not at school or truant from school. Surely, resources to conmbat the knife culture should be tatgeted towards stop and search, 'real' punishment like as long custodial sentences for those convicted of knife related crime. No cautions, slap on the wrist etc, the country is facing an epidemic of youth crime and real action is required not gimmicks.Clive Walker, Exeter Devon |
| We should be looking for ways to treat the causes and not the symptoms, otherwise the same problem will manifest itself in other ways. If a school received these measures at what point will they be removed? Obviously they will never be romoved and I'm am sure that these precautions will steadily be increased. Do we want to allow these sorts of devices to become common place and a norm? I think that serious social reform is needed!jacob locke, bath | We should be looking for ways to treat the causes and not the symptoms, otherwise the same problem will manifest itself in other ways. If a school received these measures at what point will they be removed? Obviously they will never be romoved and I'm am sure that these precautions will steadily be increased. Do we want to allow these sorts of devices to become common place and a norm? I think that serious social reform is needed!jacob locke, bath |