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Lib Dems oppose referendum vote Lib Dems oppose referendum vote
(30 minutes later)
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg says his party will not be backing Tory attempts to force a vote for a referendum on the EU reform treaty. Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg has delivered a blow to those seeking a referendum on the EU reform treaty by saying his party would vote against such a move.
Pressed on whether the Lib Dems would allow the Commons to vote through a referendum by abstaining, he told the BBC: "I certainly hope not, no." It had been thought the Lib Dems would abstain in a Commons vote, but Mr Clegg told BBC Radio's Today: "We would vote against a referendum on the treaty."
The bill to ratify the EU reform treaty has cleared its first Commons hurdle, despite a revolt by 19 Labour MPs. The bill to ratify the treaty cleared its first Commons hurdle on Monday, despite a revolt by 19 Labour MPs.
The measure will now be debated line by line over the coming weeks.The measure will now be debated line by line over the coming weeks.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty in December but Parliament must ratify it. Prime Minister Gordon Brown signed what is now known as the Lisbon Treaty in December, but Parliament must ratify it.
'Cowardly and deceitful''Cowardly and deceitful'
It was designed to replace the EU Constitution, which was abandoned in 2005, but on which Labour had promised a referendum.It was designed to replace the EU Constitution, which was abandoned in 2005, but on which Labour had promised a referendum.
Ministers argue that no referendum is needed as the treaty merely amends the EU's existing constitution, rather than overwriting it - as the failed constitution would have done.Ministers argue that no referendum is needed as the treaty merely amends the EU's existing constitution, rather than overwriting it - as the failed constitution would have done.
We would vote against a referendum on the treaty and vote that the real referendum that needs to be had is whether we stay in the EU or not Nick CleggLib Dem leader Q&A: Lisbon TreatyAnalysis: Political battles In quotes: EU treaty debateWe would vote against a referendum on the treaty and vote that the real referendum that needs to be had is whether we stay in the EU or not Nick CleggLib Dem leader Q&A: Lisbon TreatyAnalysis: Political battles In quotes: EU treaty debate
The Conservatives have accused the government of being "cowardly and deceitful" for refusing to hold a referendum.The Conservatives have accused the government of being "cowardly and deceitful" for refusing to hold a referendum.
They say the treaty is essentially the same as the constitution.They say the treaty is essentially the same as the constitution.
And Labour rebels who oppose the treaty have warned the government it faces a much bigger revolt when it comes to the expected vote on an amendment to hold a referendum.And Labour rebels who oppose the treaty have warned the government it faces a much bigger revolt when it comes to the expected vote on an amendment to hold a referendum.
Some 18 Labour and four nationalist MPs had signed an amendment calling for a referendum on the document, but that was not subject to a vote on Monday as the Commons speaker decided against calling it.Some 18 Labour and four nationalist MPs had signed an amendment calling for a referendum on the document, but that was not subject to a vote on Monday as the Commons speaker decided against calling it.
Mr Clegg said he agreed with the government that the treaty was "a rather different beast" to the constitution and therefore a referendum was not necessary.Mr Clegg said he agreed with the government that the treaty was "a rather different beast" to the constitution and therefore a referendum was not necessary.
Instead, he says there should be a poll on Britain's continued membership of the EU.Instead, he says there should be a poll on Britain's continued membership of the EU.
'Good for Britain''Good for Britain'
"We would support the government by not voting for a referendum," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme."We would support the government by not voting for a referendum," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"We would vote against a referendum on the treaty and vote in accordance with our long-held position that the real referendum that needs to be had is whether we stay in the EU or not," he said."We would vote against a referendum on the treaty and vote in accordance with our long-held position that the real referendum that needs to be had is whether we stay in the EU or not," he said.
It's obviously a matter of numbers and frankly it looks as though there aren't going to be quite enough rebels Bill CashTory MP What are the arguments?It's obviously a matter of numbers and frankly it looks as though there aren't going to be quite enough rebels Bill CashTory MP What are the arguments?
Conservative Eurosceptic Bill Cash admitted that the rebels needed the support of the Lib Dems if they were to have any chance of wining a vote for a referendum on the treaty. The eurosceptic Conservative MP Bill Cash admitted that the rebels needed the support of the Lib Dems if they were to have any chance of wining a vote for a referendum on the treaty.
"It's obviously a matter of numbers and frankly it looks as though there aren't going to be quite enough rebels," he told Today."It's obviously a matter of numbers and frankly it looks as though there aren't going to be quite enough rebels," he told Today.
"A lot is going to turn on the Liberal Democrats.""A lot is going to turn on the Liberal Democrats."
In the first of at least 15 days of debate over the next month, Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the treaty was "good for Britain and good for Europe".In the first of at least 15 days of debate over the next month, Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the treaty was "good for Britain and good for Europe".
"The government is convinced that Britain's membership of and full engagement with the EU is good for Britain and good for Europe," he told MPs."The government is convinced that Britain's membership of and full engagement with the EU is good for Britain and good for Europe," he told MPs.
'Fundamental change''Fundamental change'
He warned against the Conservative "myth" of a European super state and said the party's policies would lead to "a second decade of institutional inertia that diverts Europe from the real issues that face it".He warned against the Conservative "myth" of a European super state and said the party's policies would lead to "a second decade of institutional inertia that diverts Europe from the real issues that face it".
But shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the treaty "brings about fundamental change" in the EU's institutional structure, changes which the government "now pretend are matters of little importance about which the people of this country need not be troubled."But shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the treaty "brings about fundamental change" in the EU's institutional structure, changes which the government "now pretend are matters of little importance about which the people of this country need not be troubled."
Edward Davey, for the Liberal Democrats, said: "An EU of 27 member states and growing can't operate on the same basis that only just served the needs of an EU of 15 states. Ed Davey, for the Liberal Democrats, said: "An EU of 27 member states and growing can't operate on the same basis that only just served the needs of an EU of 15 states.
"Arguments for trimming the bureaucracy and making the institutions less cumbersome ought to be self-evident.""Arguments for trimming the bureaucracy and making the institutions less cumbersome ought to be self-evident."
At the end of the rowdy five-hour debate a motion to approve the European Union (Amendment) Bill in principle won by 362 votes to 224.At the end of the rowdy five-hour debate a motion to approve the European Union (Amendment) Bill in principle won by 362 votes to 224.