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Hong Kong Student Protesters and City Leaders Meet to Discuss Democracy Hong Kong Student Protesters and City Leaders Debate Democracy’s Future
(about 2 hours later)
HONG KONG — After more than three weeks of sit-in protests here in Asia’s most important financial center, student leaders engaged Hong Kong government officials in a scholarly and civil televised debate on Tuesday about the future of democracy in the city. HONG KONG — After weeks of unprecedented protests that have shaken this financial hub of 7.2 million, residents thought they had seen it all. Then on Tuesday night something even more extraordinary happened, on live television: a polite debate between cherubic-faced students wearing black “Freedom Now” T-shirts and top Hong Kong leaders over the future of democracy.
While there were signs that both sides were trying to move toward a solution that would ease the anger in the streets, no substantive agreement was reached. Five student leaders, hair disheveled, took on the officials — who were old enough to be their parents — in the frank discourse. They spoke Cantonese, the prevailing local Chinese dialect, with simultaneous translations into English and sign language.
The meeting resembled less a negotiating session than a high school debate. A panel of student leaders in black T-shirts sparred politely with government officials wearing suits and ties, with both sides citing articles of Hong Kong’s city charter, the Basic Law, to back up their points. It was a remarkably civil and scholarly discussion, all the more so given the generational divide between the sides. Each cited articles of Hong Kong’s constitution, chapter and verse, to back their points.
Carrie Lam, the second-highest ranking official in the city, told the students that the government was willing to submit a new report to the national government in Beijing that would take into account their views on how to conduct the 2017 municipal election. Strict guidelines issued by the Communist Party-controlled national legislature in Beijing sparked the protests. Even more remarkable was that it was happening in Hong Kong, the former British colony only a few miles from mainland China, where such a freewheeling public political discussion has not been heard in at least a quarter century.
Ms. Lam told the students on Tuesday that the guidelines — which among other things require that all candidates for chief executive, the city’s top post, be approved by a committee stacked with Beijing supporters — would remain in effect for the 2017 election, though they might be changed after that. At issue was how Hong Kong would elect its top leader, the chief executive, in elections set for 2017. For the first time, all five million eligible voters may able to cast ballots.
The students stuck with their demands for immediate changes to the city’s election law to allow a wider range of candidates to run. But China’s Communist Party-controlled legislature, which has final say on how Hong Kong changes its constitution, put restrictions on how people can win a spot on the ballot that pro-democracy advocates say effectively excludes people who offend Beijing.
Nevertheless, Ms. Lam’s offer drew some interest from the student leaders. “What is the next step?” asked Alex Chow, 24, the general secretary of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, after hearing Ms. Lam’s offer. “Do you have a time frame? Do you have a road map to see in which direction our constitutional development is going?” That sent people to the streets on Sept. 28, and they have been there ever since, erecting colorful tent cities on some of Hong Kong’s busiest avenues. Yet on Tuesday night, both sides, the government and the students that have been the driving force behind the protests, said they wanted to move forward.
Ms. Lam told reporters afterward that the government would give no further ground on the election rules. “As far as their position is concerned, I’m afraid that we can only agree to disagree,” she said, adding that it was the government’s “firm position” that the rules would be followed in the 2017 election. “If the students cannot accept this position, then I’m afraid we’ll continue to have different views.” Carrie Lam, 57, the second-highest ranking official in Hong Kong, told the students that the government was willing to submit a new report to Beijing acknowledging the surge of discontent that followed the Aug. 31 decision by China’s National People’s Congress on the election guidelines.
The Hong Kong government has been trying to defuse the biggest political crisis in the city since 1997, when China resumed sovereignty over the city of 7.2 million after more than 150 years of British rule. Thousands of pro-democracy protesters have clogged the area around the government headquarters in the city center, as well as two busy shopping districts, turning main streets into colorful tent cities. In what appeared to be a further softening, she also said the rules could change in subsequent elections.
What began as relatively small demonstrations mushroomed into a broad movement after the police used pepper spray and tear gas in an attempt to break them up on Sept. 28, and protesters used umbrellas to shield themselves from the chemicals. The students stuck with their demands to push for immediate changes to Hong Kong’s election law. They want the 2017 elections for the city’s highest post, the chief executive, open to a wide range of candidates. But Mrs. Lam’s offer did spark some interest.
Students spearheading the protests, which have come to be known as the Umbrella Movement, demanded talks with the government to air their grievances. The students say that Beijing was given a misleading report by the Hong Kong government on the political mood in the city, influencing how the legislature wrote the election guidelines. “What is the next step?” Alex Chow, 24, the secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, asked after hearing Mrs. Lam’s offer. “Do you have a time frame? Do you have a road map to see in which direction our constitutional development is going?”
Ms. Lam rejected that charge, and said the students should accept that the guidelines represented a step forward, because they open up the election of the chief executive to all of Hong Kong’s five million eligible voters for the first time. Hong Kong’s government is seeking a way to defuse its biggest political crisis since China reclaimed sovereignty in 1997 after more than 150 years of British rule.
“I don’t know why you don’t consider that important progress in our quest for democracy,” Ms. Lam said. For more than three weeks the area around the government headquarters in the city center, as well as in two busy shopping districts, have been commandeered by thousands of protesters. They have clashed with police officers trying to clear imaginative barricades constructed of everything from bamboo poles to garbage cans.
The current chief executive, Leung Chun-ying, was appointed on the recommendation of a committee of Hong Kong’s political elite and representatives of what are called functional constituencies — industry, professional and social groups that have seats reserved for them in Hong Kong’s legislature. The students want the functional-constituency system abolished. What may have amounted only to a small demonstrations, mushroomed into a broad movement when the police used tear gas and pepper spray in an attempt to break up protests on Sept. 28, with protesters using umbrellas to shield themselves.
The government has rejected or ignored all of the student’s demands except for their request for talks, and those have not been easy to organize. A meeting scheduled for Oct. 10 was canceled after the government withdrew. The students feel that Beijing was given a misleading report by the government on the political mood here that influenced how the legislature wrote its guidelines.
Mr. Leung made clear in an interview on Monday that government representatives would not be negotiating with the students. Rather, he said, they would listen to what the students had to say and would explain to them how Hong Kong’s political process works, emphasizing that the city’s voters would lose their chance to elect his successor if the city did not go along with the guidelines from Beijing. Mrs. Lam rejected that charge, and said the students should accept that opening the election to all of Hong Kong’s eligible voters is a significant advance. "I don’t know why you don’t consider that important progress in our quest for democracy,” she said.
“We have deliberately said it is a dialogue,” Mr. Leung said in the interview. “We are all ears, and obviously we are duty-bound to explain to the students and through the media the constitutional arrangements for us to have universal suffrage in Hong Kong. It is indeed surprising that most of the young people who are now occupying certain parts of Hong Kong do not understand.” Students, who have spearheaded the sit-in protests, now known as the Umbrella Movement, had demanded talks with the government. The government had canceled talks set to take place on Oct. 10.
Mr. Leung himself has been a focus of the protesters’ ire. At least twice in the two-hour debate on Tuesday, student leaders reminded the government officials of comments Mr. Leung made the day before, asserting that fully open democracy would lead to undesirable populism and policies skewed toward the poor. The students and other protesters want a more open nomination process as well the abolition of so-called functional constituencies, which are industry, professional and social groups that are represented in Hong Kong’s legislature and in the committee that picks the chief executive.
Students and other protesters watching the debate on large projection screens at the main sit-in protest site in central Hong Kong said they were happy that the government was at least willing to talk. The government has rejected or ignored all of the student’s demands, except for their request to talk.
Hong Kong’s top official, Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, made clear on Monday that the government would only listen to what the students had to say and explain to them how Hong Kong’s political process works. The territory has a great deal of autonomy from Beijing and its people enjoy a broad range of civil liberties that mainland Chinese lack, including freedom of speech and assembly.
“It is not a negotiation. We have deliberately said it is a dialogue,” Mr. Leung said. “We are all ears, and obviously we are duty-bound to explain to the students and through the media the constitutional arrangements for us to have universal suffrage in Hong Kong.”
Mr. Leung is a focus of the students’ anger, and they reminded the government officials, on at least two occasions during the two-hour debate, of comments he made on Monday about how full democracy would mean “a numbers game” that would force the government to skew “politics and policies” toward poor people
“Is he going to be serving the tycoons and the business sector?” Mr. Chow asked. “Is this system democratic, is it free?”
In public appearances after the debate, both sides played down expectations. Mrs. Lam told reporters that “we can only agree to disagree.” And Yvonne Leung, one of the student debaters, told supporters at the main protest site that the government “didn’t give us a material response or direction. We’re disappointed, and we must continue to stay here.”
Despite the animosity, students and other protesters, watching the debate on large projection screens at the main protest site near the government headquarters, were happy that the government was at least willing to talk.
“This is the first time the government has spoken with protesters on an equal level,” said Teddy Yeung, a computer engineering student wearing a red bandanna. “That’s already a step forward for us.”“This is the first time the government has spoken with protesters on an equal level,” said Teddy Yeung, a computer engineering student wearing a red bandanna. “That’s already a step forward for us.”