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'Radical' change after referendum, Andrews predicts | |
(35 minutes later) | |
The new Welsh public services minister has said he expects "radical" UK constitutional change regardless of the Scottish referendum's outcome. | |
Leighton Andrews told the BBC the vote would have "major implications" whether Scotland remained in the UK or not. | |
Mr Andrews was speaking at a conference considering the referendum's implications for Wales. | |
Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood said it was time for Wales to re-negotiate its relationship with the rest of the UK. | |
Mr Andrews rejoined the cabinet on Thursday, to lead planned major changes to local councils. | |
He resigned 15 months ago after campaigning to keep a school open in his own constituency, against his own guidelines as the then education education minister. | |
The conference at the Wales Millennium Centre, involving politicians and constitutional experts, came as recent polls suggested the Yes and No camps were neck-and-neck. | |
Mr Andrews, the AM for Rhondda, said issues such as the role of the House of Lords would have to be addressed, as a result of next Thursday's result. | |
"I think it will have major implications for the UK regardless of the result of the referendum," he said. | |
"I have no doubt we are now going to see radical constitutional reform in the UK, regardless of the result next week. | |
"It's not just about the powers open to Wales. | |
"I think it's also about what makes a new Union, what's the structure of representation across the UK, what are the powers of the House of Lords? | |
"Is it not time for a second chamber in the UK that reflects the nations and regions of the UK? | |
"What happens for England? There are a whole series of questions that will have to be addressed." | |
First Minister Carwyn Jones has called for a constitutional convention after the referendum to look again at the way the nations of the UK are governed. | |
But the economist and former Welsh government advisor, Prof Gerry Holtham, told the conference the outcome of the vote would not lead to such a constitutional convention or conference. | |
He said Wales and Northern Ireland do not know what they would want from such a process, and the current political set-up suits the "British establishment". | |
'Mass movement' | |
However Ms Wood said the build-up to the 18 September referendum had been inspiring, seeming to be a "rebirth almost of democracy". | |
"People are involved, it's a mass movement, people are well-informed, they're engaged," she said. | |
"And regardless of what the result is on September 18 something very special has happened. | |
"And I think we can replicate that here in Wales too when we go to the people and ask them about the kind of settlement that they want to see. | |
"There's a consensus that the settlement we have is not fit for purpose and Scotland opens up opportunities for us on that front." | |
Prof Roger Scully, of Cardiff University's Wales Governance Centre, told the conference it was remarkable that the Yes and No sides were so close, according to the polls, a week before the vote. | |
He said there were three reasons why he expected the No vote to be ahead next Thursday. | He said there were three reasons why he expected the No vote to be ahead next Thursday. |
Firstly, he said, the No campaigners were more numerous and more powerful, the pro-Union side started with a much larger advantage in the opinion polls and, thirdly, research suggested constitutional referendums tended to be strongly biased towards the status quo. | Firstly, he said, the No campaigners were more numerous and more powerful, the pro-Union side started with a much larger advantage in the opinion polls and, thirdly, research suggested constitutional referendums tended to be strongly biased towards the status quo. |
'Change everything' | 'Change everything' |
Prof Scully added that he would put his money on the No campaign pulling through, if he was forced to call the result, but "not with a lot of confidence". | Prof Scully added that he would put his money on the No campaign pulling through, if he was forced to call the result, but "not with a lot of confidence". |
He said the Yes supporters could still win, as their campaign had been so strong on the ground. | He said the Yes supporters could still win, as their campaign had been so strong on the ground. |
Prof Laura McAllister, of Liverpool University, told the conference she thought the No campaign had "shot itself in the foot" by refusing to put a "devo max" option on the referendum ballot. | |
She accused the pro-Union lobby of tactically making "one mistake after another". | She accused the pro-Union lobby of tactically making "one mistake after another". |
BBC Wales Welsh affairs editor Vaughan Roderick said the most important part of the referendum process had already taken place, and that was the recognition Scotland could consider voting Yes. | |
"That will change everything," he said, predicting that it would lead to "the most interesting period in memory". | "That will change everything," he said, predicting that it would lead to "the most interesting period in memory". |