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| Family hears judge say victim statements make 'no difference' | Family hears judge say victim statements make 'no difference' |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| The parents of a murder victim have called for an explanation after hearing a judge say impact statements made by bereaved families made "no difference" to Parole Board judgements. | The parents of a murder victim have called for an explanation after hearing a judge say impact statements made by bereaved families made "no difference" to Parole Board judgements. |
| Geraldine and Peter McGinty said it was "sickening" to overhear the remarks after giving a statement in a parole hearing on one of their son's killers. | Geraldine and Peter McGinty said it was "sickening" to overhear the remarks after giving a statement in a parole hearing on one of their son's killers. |
| Apologising, Judge Graham White said he thought he was talking in "private". | Apologising, Judge Graham White said he thought he was talking in "private". |
| He said the statements could not affect the judgement of an offender's risk. | He said the statements could not affect the judgement of an offender's risk. |
| 'Heartache' | 'Heartache' |
| Colin McGinty, 21, was stabbed to death in 2001 in Bootle on Merseyside and two men - Michael Brown and Gary Hampton - were jailed for his murder later that year. | |
| They both recently applied to the Parole Board to be moved to an open prison and Colin's parents, Mr and Mrs McGinty, were invited to read victim impact statements to the judge before he decided the application. | They both recently applied to the Parole Board to be moved to an open prison and Colin's parents, Mr and Mrs McGinty, were invited to read victim impact statements to the judge before he decided the application. |
| It was during Brown's hearing, after reading their statement via a video link, that the couple heard Judge White's comments. | It was during Brown's hearing, after reading their statement via a video link, that the couple heard Judge White's comments. |
| They overheard the judge's comments via the video link, which he mistakenly believed had been disconnected at both ends. | They overheard the judge's comments via the video link, which he mistakenly believed had been disconnected at both ends. |
| "The judge turned round and said to someone else in the room: 'I feel so very sorry for these families. They make these statements thinking they are going to make a difference, but they make no difference at all. Someone should tell them,'" Mrs McGinty told the BBC. | "The judge turned round and said to someone else in the room: 'I feel so very sorry for these families. They make these statements thinking they are going to make a difference, but they make no difference at all. Someone should tell them,'" Mrs McGinty told the BBC. |
| "The heartache that we go through to do these statements, to be told they don't make any difference." | "The heartache that we go through to do these statements, to be told they don't make any difference." |
| Judge White told the BBC the McGinty family heard a "private conversation which had not been meant for publication". | Judge White told the BBC the McGinty family heard a "private conversation which had not been meant for publication". |
| "I am sorry if what they overheard upset them and if it made them feel that what they had said had no impact because it certainly did, but what it can't do is affect our judgement of his (Brown's) risk." | "I am sorry if what they overheard upset them and if it made them feel that what they had said had no impact because it certainly did, but what it can't do is affect our judgement of his (Brown's) risk." |
| 'Grief and pain' | 'Grief and pain' |
| By BBC home affairs correspondent June Kelly | By BBC home affairs correspondent June Kelly |
| Colin McGinty was on a night out with friends when he was stabbed fifteen times in what detectives believed was a case of mistaken identity. | Colin McGinty was on a night out with friends when he was stabbed fifteen times in what detectives believed was a case of mistaken identity. |
| In their victim personal statement his parents described how they made their way to the hospital in the early hours of the morning, saying: "That sight of Colin will haunt us forever." | In their victim personal statement his parents described how they made their way to the hospital in the early hours of the morning, saying: "That sight of Colin will haunt us forever." |
| His last words to his father were "I can't breathe." He died shortly afterwards. | His last words to his father were "I can't breathe." He died shortly afterwards. |
| Colin was the second of Geraldine and Peter McGinty's five children. At the heart of the family home in Formby on Merseyside is a picture of Colin with his four siblings. | Colin was the second of Geraldine and Peter McGinty's five children. At the heart of the family home in Formby on Merseyside is a picture of Colin with his four siblings. |
| Geraldine told the BBC: " He was a good brother and a fabulous son. He was really hard working. He had completed an apprenticeship as a joiner." | Geraldine told the BBC: " He was a good brother and a fabulous son. He was really hard working. He had completed an apprenticeship as a joiner." |
| The family's statement says: "We are serving a life sentence of heartache and grief and pain." | The family's statement says: "We are serving a life sentence of heartache and grief and pain." |
| 'Communication difficulties' | 'Communication difficulties' |
| When conducting a prisoner hearing, the Parole Board said it took into account the nature of the offence, the prisoner's offending history and progress made, a range of reports from psychologists, probation officers and prison officers - as well as victim statements. | When conducting a prisoner hearing, the Parole Board said it took into account the nature of the offence, the prisoner's offending history and progress made, a range of reports from psychologists, probation officers and prison officers - as well as victim statements. |
| It also considered whether an offender could be safely managed in open prison or in the community following release. | It also considered whether an offender could be safely managed in open prison or in the community following release. |
| Judge White added: "We don't think that victims necessarily have explained to them what the role of the board is and what we have to take into account." | Judge White added: "We don't think that victims necessarily have explained to them what the role of the board is and what we have to take into account." |
| The Ministry of Justice said victims of crime deserved the best possible support. | The Ministry of Justice said victims of crime deserved the best possible support. |
| A spokesman insisted it was right that victims were able to submit a personal statement to set out the impact an offender's release could have on their lives. | A spokesman insisted it was right that victims were able to submit a personal statement to set out the impact an offender's release could have on their lives. |
| Parole Board chairman Sir David Calvert-Smith told the BBC there were "real communication difficulties" in the area. | Parole Board chairman Sir David Calvert-Smith told the BBC there were "real communication difficulties" in the area. |
| He said all victims who made a statement should be given guidance as to what it may or may not achieve. | He said all victims who made a statement should be given guidance as to what it may or may not achieve. |
| He said the board, which published its latest Practice Guidance on Duties Towards Victims in February, was constantly on the lookout for ways to get its message out. | He said the board, which published its latest Practice Guidance on Duties Towards Victims in February, was constantly on the lookout for ways to get its message out. |
| 'Unacceptable' | 'Unacceptable' |
| Sir David said statements did make a difference to hearings - but less so to the decisions made. | Sir David said statements did make a difference to hearings - but less so to the decisions made. |
| He also confirmed an investigation would be carried out to determine whether "something was said, which really should not have been said" at the hearing involving the McGinty family and Judge White. | He also confirmed an investigation would be carried out to determine whether "something was said, which really should not have been said" at the hearing involving the McGinty family and Judge White. |
| However, Mr and Mrs McGinty said the Parole Board and politicians have been misleading the public on the issue of victim statements and the impact they could have. | However, Mr and Mrs McGinty said the Parole Board and politicians have been misleading the public on the issue of victim statements and the impact they could have. |
| "We need a bit more, to be treated with respect and we're not," Mrs McGinty said. | "We need a bit more, to be treated with respect and we're not," Mrs McGinty said. |
| Shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan said the treatment of the McGinty family had been "unacceptable". | Shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan said the treatment of the McGinty family had been "unacceptable". |
| Recommendations have been made that both Colin's murderers - Hampton and Brown - should be transferred to open prisons. | Recommendations have been made that both Colin's murderers - Hampton and Brown - should be transferred to open prisons. |
| Colin's parents said transferring the convicted murderers to an open prison would result in them receiving privileges like temporary release, which would be another "horrendous" thing the family have to endure. | Colin's parents said transferring the convicted murderers to an open prison would result in them receiving privileges like temporary release, which would be another "horrendous" thing the family have to endure. |