This article is from the source 'nytimes' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/europe/they-did-this-in-rebel-country-disbelief.html
The article has changed 3 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 1 | Version 2 |
|---|---|
| They Did This? In Rebel Country, Disbelief | They Did This? In Rebel Country, Disbelief |
| (about 4 hours later) | |
| SNIZHNE, Ukraine — It was photographed rolling past the Pitstop Market gas station in Torez. It was seen near the city sauna here, and was caught on video creeping up Gagarin Street, past an auto parts store and the Ivushka food mart in the direction of the Russian border. | |
| An SA-11 missile system, or Buk, may be what Western intelligence officials believe shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Yet for most people in eastern Ukraine, even those who live in places where the infamous Buk system was believed to have lumbered past, the idea that pro-Russian rebels used it to bring down Flight 17, bound from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, draws only scorn. | An SA-11 missile system, or Buk, may be what Western intelligence officials believe shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Yet for most people in eastern Ukraine, even those who live in places where the infamous Buk system was believed to have lumbered past, the idea that pro-Russian rebels used it to bring down Flight 17, bound from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, draws only scorn. |
| “They just aren’t capable,” said Sergei Melnik, 41, a coal miner, who was sitting in a shady courtyard here a few yards from where the Buk was spotted on Gagarin Street last Thursday. “I don’t believe it.” | “They just aren’t capable,” said Sergei Melnik, 41, a coal miner, who was sitting in a shady courtyard here a few yards from where the Buk was spotted on Gagarin Street last Thursday. “I don’t believe it.” |
| Photographs and videos posted on social media sites of what Ukrainian intelligence officials have said was likely the Buk system are unconfirmed and far from conclusive. But they offer a muddy picture of what might have been the weapon’s bumpy journey through eastern Ukraine to a location near this sleepy mining town where American intelligence officials believe it blew the passenger jet out of the sky that day. | Photographs and videos posted on social media sites of what Ukrainian intelligence officials have said was likely the Buk system are unconfirmed and far from conclusive. But they offer a muddy picture of what might have been the weapon’s bumpy journey through eastern Ukraine to a location near this sleepy mining town where American intelligence officials believe it blew the passenger jet out of the sky that day. |
| Many people interviewed in the days since the downing of the plane agreed that what happened was a tragedy. Villagers who live nearby brought flowers, stuffed animals and candles to the site, and many volunteered in a largely inept recovery effort that seemed to have ground to a halt on Tuesday. | Many people interviewed in the days since the downing of the plane agreed that what happened was a tragedy. Villagers who live nearby brought flowers, stuffed animals and candles to the site, and many volunteered in a largely inept recovery effort that seemed to have ground to a halt on Tuesday. |
| Yet opinions soon diverged. Most said they had never heard or seen the weapon. Many questioned its existence. A number of people asserted that it had been invented by Ukraine’s central government as a diversionary tactic in its war against pro-Russian rebels. | Yet opinions soon diverged. Most said they had never heard or seen the weapon. Many questioned its existence. A number of people asserted that it had been invented by Ukraine’s central government as a diversionary tactic in its war against pro-Russian rebels. |
| “Poroshenko said he was going to bring us a surprise,” said a thin man with gray hair and angry eyes, referring to a remark by Ukraine’s president, Petro O. Poroshenko, who was speaking about his government’s military operation against the rebels. “There’s your surprise.” | “Poroshenko said he was going to bring us a surprise,” said a thin man with gray hair and angry eyes, referring to a remark by Ukraine’s president, Petro O. Poroshenko, who was speaking about his government’s military operation against the rebels. “There’s your surprise.” |
| The alternate reality that has formed in eastern Ukraine means that the destruction of the plane and the aftermath have not done much to change the dynamic of the conflict here. Most residents continue to trust the rebels, even though much of the world sees them as outlaws responsible for the deaths of the 298 passengers and crew aboard the airliner. | The alternate reality that has formed in eastern Ukraine means that the destruction of the plane and the aftermath have not done much to change the dynamic of the conflict here. Most residents continue to trust the rebels, even though much of the world sees them as outlaws responsible for the deaths of the 298 passengers and crew aboard the airliner. |
| The reasons for distrusting the American conclusion come from deep within society. The government in Kiev is prosecuting a war here, and civilians are suffering as a result, their minds hardening. (Last week, at least 11 people were killed in a bombing here that fell short of a rebel base.) The rebels are largely impoverished local people, and many here simply do not believe they could operate a sophisticated piece of military machinery. | The reasons for distrusting the American conclusion come from deep within society. The government in Kiev is prosecuting a war here, and civilians are suffering as a result, their minds hardening. (Last week, at least 11 people were killed in a bombing here that fell short of a rebel base.) The rebels are largely impoverished local people, and many here simply do not believe they could operate a sophisticated piece of military machinery. |
| The conflict has thrust so deeply into peoples’ lives that their attention, and patience, for the sorrow of others extends only so far. Standing outside the rubble of his apartment building at 14 Lenin Street, Victor Dmitrovich, an elderly man with a bandaged head whose wife died in the bombing, voiced a common sentiment: “Why should we talk about the Boeing?” he said. “We have our own sadness.” | The conflict has thrust so deeply into peoples’ lives that their attention, and patience, for the sorrow of others extends only so far. Standing outside the rubble of his apartment building at 14 Lenin Street, Victor Dmitrovich, an elderly man with a bandaged head whose wife died in the bombing, voiced a common sentiment: “Why should we talk about the Boeing?” he said. “We have our own sadness.” |
| People here are also heavily influenced by Russian television, which has been beamed into most every house in rebel-controlled territory after separatists took over the television towers in these areas earlier this year. | People here are also heavily influenced by Russian television, which has been beamed into most every house in rebel-controlled territory after separatists took over the television towers in these areas earlier this year. |
| Even on the day after the crash, the conclusions drawn by people in the village of Grabovo, which was nearly crushed as the plane fell, were beginning to settle into a pattern consistent with the narrative on Russian television — that a Ukrainian plane shot down the airliner. | Even on the day after the crash, the conclusions drawn by people in the village of Grabovo, which was nearly crushed as the plane fell, were beginning to settle into a pattern consistent with the narrative on Russian television — that a Ukrainian plane shot down the airliner. |
| One woman, who had pulled up to a friend’s house in a small Lada car, was recounting through tears how she had seen the jet crash just yards from her home, when her husband interjected: “The rocket came from over there.” | One woman, who had pulled up to a friend’s house in a small Lada car, was recounting through tears how she had seen the jet crash just yards from her home, when her husband interjected: “The rocket came from over there.” |
| She swung around and said: “There was no rocket. It was a fighter jet. One hundred percent.” | She swung around and said: “There was no rocket. It was a fighter jet. One hundred percent.” |
| Some theories were particularly strange. A woman in central Snizhne said there was something suspicious about the flight because all the passports were new and been collected in one place, and because most of the bodies were without clothing. | Some theories were particularly strange. A woman in central Snizhne said there was something suspicious about the flight because all the passports were new and been collected in one place, and because most of the bodies were without clothing. |
| “Were they all having sex before the plane came down?” said the woman, who identified herself only as Tatyana out of concern for her safety. | “Were they all having sex before the plane came down?” said the woman, who identified herself only as Tatyana out of concern for her safety. |
| The Ivushka market is on the road where Ukrainian intelligence officials say the Buk moved. Lyubov Sherbakova, a clerk there, said she saw so much rebel hardware that even if she had seen a Buk, she would not have been able to distinguish it. | The Ivushka market is on the road where Ukrainian intelligence officials say the Buk moved. Lyubov Sherbakova, a clerk there, said she saw so much rebel hardware that even if she had seen a Buk, she would not have been able to distinguish it. |
| “We wave at them all day,” she said, referring to rebels’ heavy machinery. | “We wave at them all day,” she said, referring to rebels’ heavy machinery. |
| The fog of war is thickening. Russian military officials said that a billboard in the foreground of one of the Ukrainian intelligence videos makes it clear that the piece of hardware they said was a Buk crossing into Russia was actually in the city of Krasnoarmeysk, much further west and under Ukrainian control. | The fog of war is thickening. Russian military officials said that a billboard in the foreground of one of the Ukrainian intelligence videos makes it clear that the piece of hardware they said was a Buk crossing into Russia was actually in the city of Krasnoarmeysk, much further west and under Ukrainian control. |
| What people see often corresponds with their political bent. At the Pitstop Market in the town of Torez, where a large piece of machinery that Ukrainians say was the Buk was photographed, Yevgeny, a clerk and a self-described Ukrainian patriot, said the weapon had been seen by his colleagues who were on duty that day. | |
| “Of course it came by,” he said. “I have no doubt.” | “Of course it came by,” he said. “I have no doubt.” |
| One rebel named Andrei, who was guarding the rebel base at Saur Mogila, a Soviet war monument near here that rebels and Ukrainians have been fighting over for weeks, seemed almost to confirm that, though he would not say what he was referring to. | One rebel named Andrei, who was guarding the rebel base at Saur Mogila, a Soviet war monument near here that rebels and Ukrainians have been fighting over for weeks, seemed almost to confirm that, though he would not say what he was referring to. |
| “We had something,” he said, smiling and standing tall on the road sprayed with dirt from a Ukrainian airstrike Saturday morning. “But it left.” | “We had something,” he said, smiling and standing tall on the road sprayed with dirt from a Ukrainian airstrike Saturday morning. “But it left.” |