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Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage get personal over EU in BBC debate Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage get personal over EU in BBC debate
(35 minutes later)
The gloves came off in the battle between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg as they went head-to-head in the second of their debates on Europe. Nick Clegg has accused Nigel Farage of peddling "dangerous fantasies" in an ill-tempered BBC TV debate on Britain's future in Europe.
Mr Clegg mounted a strong attack on the UKIP leader, accusing him of living in a "fantasy world" and of believing in conspiracy theories. Mr Farage accused the Lib Dem leader of "wilfully lying" to the British people about Brussels' grip on UK laws.
Mr Farage accused the Lib Dem leader of "wilfully lying" to the British people. He also claimed EU immigration had hit the "white working class" the hardest.
Instant polls said Mr Farage had won by a bigger margin than he did in their first debate last week.Instant polls said Mr Farage had won by a bigger margin than he did in their first debate last week.
YouGov's snap poll gives the debate to Mr Farage by 68% to 27% while a poll for the Guardian suggested 69% of people watching thought the UKIP man came out on top. YouGov's snap poll gives the debate to Mr Farage by 68% to 27% while a poll by ICM/Guardian suggested 69% of people watching thought the UKIP man came out on top.
The BBC's chief political correspondent Norman Smith said Mr Clegg was much more fired up than he had been last week, while Mr Farage had been more measured.The BBC's chief political correspondent Norman Smith said Mr Clegg was much more fired up than he had been last week, while Mr Farage had been more measured.
The main flashpoint in the BBC debate was Mr Farage's support for Vladimir Putin over Syria. 'Billy no mates'
He accused the Lib Dem leader of being "hell bent" on getting involved in a war - but Mr Clegg accused him of trivialising the issue. Mr Clegg kicked off the one hour debate - hosted by David Dimbleby - by accusing his opponent of foisting a "dangerous con" on the public by arguing for Britain's exit from the EU, telling the audience in the BBC's radio theatre "if it sounds too good to be true, it is".
Mr Clegg says Mr Farage's views on Mr Putin are reminiscent of a "pub bar discussion" - and that the Russian leader could have brought the conflict in Syria to an end with "one phone call". He warned leaving the EU would lead to a 'Billy-no-mates Britain".
An early flashpoint was Mr Farage's support for Vladimir Putin over Syria.
The UKIP leader accused the Lib Dem leader of being "hell bent" on getting Britain involved in a war - but Mr Clegg accused him of trivialising the issue.
Mr Clegg said Mr Farage's views on Mr Putin were reminiscent of a "pub bar discussion" - and that the Russian leader could have brought the conflict in Syria to an end with "one phone call".
Poking fun at Mr Farage, the Lib Dem leader suggested the UKIP leader would claim next that "the moon landing never happened, Barack Obama is not American and Elvis is not dead".Poking fun at Mr Farage, the Lib Dem leader suggested the UKIP leader would claim next that "the moon landing never happened, Barack Obama is not American and Elvis is not dead".
Mr Farage said the British people have "had enough of getting involved in foreign wars".Mr Farage said the British people have "had enough of getting involved in foreign wars".
'Making things up'
He said he did not want Britain to be part of an "expansionist" EU foreign policy, claiming that the EU wants its own "army and navy".He said he did not want Britain to be part of an "expansionist" EU foreign policy, claiming that the EU wants its own "army and navy".
Mr Clegg said this was a "dangerous fantasy that is simply not true".Mr Clegg said this was a "dangerous fantasy that is simply not true".
Mr Clegg wants to remain in the EU - Mr Farage wants the UK to quit. The pair traded verbal blows over the percentage of British laws made in Brussels, with Mr Clegg claiming it was only about 7%. He also said the European Commission only employed the same amount of staff as Derbyshire County Council.
The pair traded verbal blows over the percentage of British laws that are made in Brussels, with Mr Clegg claiming it was only about 7%. He also said the European Commission only employed the same amount of staff as Derbyshire County Council. Mr Farage told the Lib Dem leader: "When I said yes to these debates I thought you would honestly make the pro-EU case.
Mr Farage told the Lib Dem leader: "I said yes to these debates. "By saying 7% of our laws are made in Brussels, you are wilfully lying to the British people about the extent to which we have given control of our country and our democracy and I am really shocked and surprised you would do that."
"I thought you would honestly make the pro-EU case. By saying 7% of our laws are made in Brussels, you are wilfully lying to the British people about the extent to which we have given control of our country and our democracy and I am really shocked and surprised you would do that". Mr Clegg hit back, accusing the UKIP leader of "making things up to make a point".
Mr Clegg hit back, accusing the UKIP leader of "making things up to make a point". They also clashed on trade policy, immigration and jobs. The pair again clashed on EU immigration, with Mr Farage saying it was "good for the rich because it's cheaper nannies and cheaper chauffer and cheaper gardeners but it's bad news for ordinary Britons".
Mr Farage said being a member of the EU had benefited the rich but been a disaster for the white working class - saying the UK cannot hope to provide jobs when there is an "open door" to 485 million people. The UKIP leader said the scale of immigration over recent years had "shocked" the country and increased segregation in towns and cities.
The Lib Dem leader suggests that Mr Farage "does not like modern Britain" and that, in contrast, he is very comfortable with it. But he said the worst social impact was that "it has left the white working class effectively as an underclass, and I think that is a disaster for our society".
Mr Clegg brandished a UKIP leaflet - featuring a picture of a Native American - which he said suggests that if the British people ignore immigration, they will "end up on a reservation". The Lib Dem leader suggested that Mr Farage "does not like modern Britain" and that, in contrast, he was very comfortable with it.
Mr Farage said he did not "recognise" the leaflet and does not "endorse its sentiments". 'Crazy Horse'
The pair went head-to-head in an hour-long debate on LBC radio last week, which was won by Mr Farage, according to an instant You/Gov poll, although some pundits felt Mr Clegg had the edge. Mr Clegg attempted to mock the UKIP leader as someone who was not a serious politician.
The two men drew straws to see who made their opening statement first - they flipped a pound coin last week. At one point, he brandished a UKIP leaflet - featuring a picture of a Native American - which he said suggests that if the British people ignore immigration, they will "end up on a reservation".
Mr Farage began, saying, as he did last week, that the British people would not vote to join the EU if they were not already in it. "What are you going to say next, that you are Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull?," he asked.
'Billy no mates' Mr Farage said he did not "recognise" the leaflet and did not "endorse its sentiments".
But also he made a direct attack on Mr Clegg, saying the EU was only backed by people like the deputy prime minister, "the career political class and their friends in big business". Towards the end of the debate, the UKIP leader issued a warning about the rise of far right parties in Europe, saying: "I want the EU to end but I want it to end democratically. If it doesn't end democratically I'm afraid it will end very unpleasantly."
Mr Clegg also got more personal in his opening statement than he did last week - saying Mr Farage's arguments for quitting the EU were a "dangerous con", telling the audience in the BBC's radio theatre "if it sounds too good to be true, it is". He used his closing statement to make a pitch for votes in May's European elections, saying: "Let's free ourselves up and in doing so let's give an example to the rest of Europe.
He also got the first soundbite in, saying that if the country left the EU it would become "A 'Billy no mates Britain, a 'Billy no jobs' Britain." "I know the people are behind this. I would urge people - come and join the people's army. Let's topple the establishment who got us into this mess."
David Dimbleby hosted the last live BBC TV debate on Europe 40 years ago - between anti-EU MP Tony Benn and pro-EU MP Roy Jenkins. Mr Clegg sketched out a vision of Britain's future in Europe entirely at odds with his Eurosceptic opponent in his closing remarks, promising "real remedies for the way the world is today not dangerous fantasies about a bygone world that no longer exists
"And that is why I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that we remain part of the European Union because that is how we protect the Britain we love."
Conservative leader David Cameron and Labour leader Ed Miliband declined to take part in the debate.Conservative leader David Cameron and Labour leader Ed Miliband declined to take part in the debate.
Plaid Cymru said it wanted a "strong voice" for Wales at the heart of Brussels and it was concerned that Wales could be "pulled out of the EU against its own will and its own interests".