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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
|---|---|
| Duncan Smith defends Universal Credit from growing criticism | Duncan Smith defends Universal Credit from growing criticism |
| (about 2 hours later) | |
| Iain Duncan Smith has rejected claims his flagship welfare policy will miss key targets and insisted the IT system underpinning it "seems to be fine". | Iain Duncan Smith has rejected claims his flagship welfare policy will miss key targets and insisted the IT system underpinning it "seems to be fine". |
| The work and pensions secretary said he had "never been specific" about the number of people expected to move onto Universal Credit before 2015. | The work and pensions secretary said he had "never been specific" about the number of people expected to move onto Universal Credit before 2015. |
| Labour claims only a fraction of those planned will be transferred on time. | Labour claims only a fraction of those planned will be transferred on time. |
| Mr Duncan Smith said changes had been made to protect the most vulnerable and ensure the technology works properly. | Mr Duncan Smith said changes had been made to protect the most vulnerable and ensure the technology works properly. |
| Ahead of his appearance before the Work and Pensions Committee of MPs to answer questions, No 10 said it had confidence in the minister's handling of the troubled project. | |
| Downing Street said the plan was always for it to be "gradually rolled out". | |
| Universal Credit will merge six working-age benefits - income-based jobseeker's allowance, income-related employment and support allowance, income support, child tax credit, working tax credit and housing benefit - into a single payment in a far-reaching change designed to encourage work incentives and to reduce fraud. | Universal Credit will merge six working-age benefits - income-based jobseeker's allowance, income-related employment and support allowance, income support, child tax credit, working tax credit and housing benefit - into a single payment in a far-reaching change designed to encourage work incentives and to reduce fraud. |
| The project has been beset by problems since it began in 2010 and Mr Duncan Smith acknowledged on Thursday that Universal Credit will not be paid to about 700,000 people until after a planned 2017 deadline. | |
| 'Original plan' | 'Original plan' |
| Labour has claimed the £2bn project is "in tatters", citing figures in last week's Autumn Statement that only a handful of people will be claiming Universal Credit next year and figures for 2015-6 will be about 400,000 compared with initial expectations of 4.5 million. | Labour has claimed the £2bn project is "in tatters", citing figures in last week's Autumn Statement that only a handful of people will be claiming Universal Credit next year and figures for 2015-6 will be about 400,000 compared with initial expectations of 4.5 million. |
| But Mr Duncan Smith told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the project - which he insists will deliver £38bn of long-term economic benefits - was on track and the "vast, vast majority" would be claiming the benefit by 2017. | But Mr Duncan Smith told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the project - which he insists will deliver £38bn of long-term economic benefits - was on track and the "vast, vast majority" would be claiming the benefit by 2017. |
| "It is on budget and 6.5 million people will be on the system by the end of 2017," he said. | "It is on budget and 6.5 million people will be on the system by the end of 2017," he said. |
| "Some 6.5 million people, all of those who have a job requirement on them - which is the key to Universal Credit - all the benefits that are relevant to Universal Credit will be on." | "Some 6.5 million people, all of those who have a job requirement on them - which is the key to Universal Credit - all the benefits that are relevant to Universal Credit will be on." |
| Currently about 2,000 people are claiming the single benefit in a series of "pathfinder" pilots. | Currently about 2,000 people are claiming the single benefit in a series of "pathfinder" pilots. |
| Mr Duncan Smith said he "disagreed" with claims that targets for the next two years would be missed, suggesting that he and his officials had "never actually been specific" about intermediate milestones. | Mr Duncan Smith said he "disagreed" with claims that targets for the next two years would be missed, suggesting that he and his officials had "never actually been specific" about intermediate milestones. |
| "We never really wanted to dwell on figures because they move and change but I do accept, of course, that this plan is different from the original plan." | "We never really wanted to dwell on figures because they move and change but I do accept, of course, that this plan is different from the original plan." |
| Learning lessons | Learning lessons |
| He said he had accepted that it was right to stagger the programme, so that those people receiving Employment Support Allowance would only be transferred after 2017. | He said he had accepted that it was right to stagger the programme, so that those people receiving Employment Support Allowance would only be transferred after 2017. |
| "We have been urged to do this by the committee and a number of others who have said 'look it's fair to get the most vulnerable more slowly and not to fix them in to meet a timetable'. That's fine. I agree with that." | "We have been urged to do this by the committee and a number of others who have said 'look it's fair to get the most vulnerable more slowly and not to fix them in to meet a timetable'. That's fine. I agree with that." |
| The project was "reset" earlier this year following a review by infrastructure and IT experts from the Cabinet Office and amid criticism of poor leadership by civil servants at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). | |
| The DWP is expected to confirm how much of the initial investment in IT equipment is likely to be written off - meaning that it will have no long-term commercial value. | The DWP is expected to confirm how much of the initial investment in IT equipment is likely to be written off - meaning that it will have no long-term commercial value. |
| Mr Duncan Smith insisted the IT system being used to roll out Universal Credit "seems to be absolutely fine" following recent tests and that it was right to get the system fully operational before pressing ahead. | Mr Duncan Smith insisted the IT system being used to roll out Universal Credit "seems to be absolutely fine" following recent tests and that it was right to get the system fully operational before pressing ahead. |
| "The lesson we learnt from the roll-out of tax credits by the last government, where they put huge volumes through early on and the whole system crashed costing £30bn in fraud, that was the lesson I was very certain we needed to learn and not repeat and we won't be repeating that this way," he added. | "The lesson we learnt from the roll-out of tax credits by the last government, where they put huge volumes through early on and the whole system crashed costing £30bn in fraud, that was the lesson I was very certain we needed to learn and not repeat and we won't be repeating that this way," he added. |
| The Government Digital Service would oversee testing of the system, he added, to see how it "behaves" for different types of claimants before large numbers of people were migrated onto the new benefit. | |
| "We believe it will work and they believe it will work," he insisted, adding that in the longer-term the system could be delivered entirely digitally through mobile phones and tablets. | "We believe it will work and they believe it will work," he insisted, adding that in the longer-term the system could be delivered entirely digitally through mobile phones and tablets. |
| "No-one had been affected by this so far," he added. "What we are going to do is to set a system so the system works first. " | "No-one had been affected by this so far," he added. "What we are going to do is to set a system so the system works first. " |
| 'Complete mess' | 'Complete mess' |
| But shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves said the project was "shrouded in secrecy" and there was little evidence that it would achieve its long-term objectives. | |
| "This is supposed to be the flagship policy of the government to make sure work pays for more people," she told the BBC News Channel. | |
| "The government has cut tax credits and support for childcare but said that Universal Credit would solve all the problems. But the reality is we now know that millions of people who were supposed to be getting this Universal Credit will not do so." | |
| One campaign group, the Joseph Rowntree Trust, said abandoning the project now would be disastrous as it was "the only opportunity we have to reform a failing and overly-complex system". | |
| "It (Universal Credit) removes the worst work incentives of the current system and redistributes resources to households in poverty," it said. | |
| "However, the government must address its structural and implementation problems." | |
| And the Institute for Government said problems with the project highlighted a deeper "muddle of accountability" in Whitehall, arguing that senior civil servants should have more willingness to express concerns and challenge the direction of policy while also being subject to greater scrutiny by Parliament. |