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| BBC did not lose plot over £1m pay-off, says Mark Thompson | BBC did not lose plot over £1m pay-off, says Mark Thompson |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| Ex-BBC director general Mark Thompson has told MPs the corporation had not "lost the plot" when it agreed a pay-off of almost £1m to his former deputy. | Ex-BBC director general Mark Thompson has told MPs the corporation had not "lost the plot" when it agreed a pay-off of almost £1m to his former deputy. |
| He also accused Lord Patten, chairman of the trust which oversees the BBC, of "unfair and untrue" claims not to have known about Mark Byford's payment. | He also accused Lord Patten, chairman of the trust which oversees the BBC, of "unfair and untrue" claims not to have known about Mark Byford's payment. |
| Lord Patten said he "couldn't have been expected to know" about the sum. | Lord Patten said he "couldn't have been expected to know" about the sum. |
| Mr Thompson told MPs the trust put him under "ferocious pressure" to make senior redundancies like Mr Byford's. | Mr Thompson told MPs the trust put him under "ferocious pressure" to make senior redundancies like Mr Byford's. |
| The BBC has been criticised for paying £25m ($39m) to 150 outgoing executives - £2m ($3.1m) more than their contracts stipulated. | The BBC has been criticised for paying £25m ($39m) to 150 outgoing executives - £2m ($3.1m) more than their contracts stipulated. |
| 'Full support' | 'Full support' |
| Mr Thompson - who is now chief executive of the New York Times newspaper - was one of seven senior BBC figures giving evidence to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). | |
| He was asked about a £949,000 pay-off package given to former deputy director general Mr Byford. | He was asked about a £949,000 pay-off package given to former deputy director general Mr Byford. |
| He said Mr Byford's redundancy had represented "value for money" as part of a wider effort to cut the number of highly-paid executives and save about £19m a year for the corporation. | He said Mr Byford's redundancy had represented "value for money" as part of a wider effort to cut the number of highly-paid executives and save about £19m a year for the corporation. |
| He said he believed he had the "full support" of the BBC Trust in trying to do that within a very short time frame. | He said he believed he had the "full support" of the BBC Trust in trying to do that within a very short time frame. |
| Committee chairman Margaret Hodge said under Mr Byford's contract he could have been paid off with £500,000. | Committee chairman Margaret Hodge said under Mr Byford's contract he could have been paid off with £500,000. |
| But Mr Thompson said he was paid almost twice that because the corporation wanted him to be "fully focused" on his job in the final months of his tenure and not "worried about his future". | But Mr Thompson said he was paid almost twice that because the corporation wanted him to be "fully focused" on his job in the final months of his tenure and not "worried about his future". |
| He said the fact that he had known Mr Byford for more than three decades and socialised with him did not affect judgement about his severance package. | He said the fact that he had known Mr Byford for more than three decades and socialised with him did not affect judgement about his severance package. |
| Asked by Mrs Hodge if the BBC had "lost the plot", Mr Thompson replied: "I do not think we lost the plot." | Asked by Mrs Hodge if the BBC had "lost the plot", Mr Thompson replied: "I do not think we lost the plot." |
| BBC HR director Lucy Adams told the committee the corporation was trying to "get people out of the door" with minimal disruption and no risk of legal action - and to do that, it was "occasionally" necessary to pay more than was contractually required. | |
| Savings | Savings |
| Former trust chairman Sir Michael Lyons agreed with the MPs that payments like Mr Byford's "look eye-watering", adding that "clearly the trust is damaged" by the whole affair. | Former trust chairman Sir Michael Lyons agreed with the MPs that payments like Mr Byford's "look eye-watering", adding that "clearly the trust is damaged" by the whole affair. |
| But he said the process of making "rapid reductions in senior management" was "very difficult", adding: "You think we should have done it for less and with the benefit of hindsight maybe we should have spent more time being clear. | But he said the process of making "rapid reductions in senior management" was "very difficult", adding: "You think we should have done it for less and with the benefit of hindsight maybe we should have spent more time being clear. |
| "The price of that would have been that it would have taken longer and the savings would have been smaller." | "The price of that would have been that it would have taken longer and the savings would have been smaller." |
| BBC trustee Anthony Fry told the PAC there had been "months and months of arguments" between the trust and the BBC executive committee over financial issues such as pay, perks and bonuses - although he admitted that severance packages were not given much attention. | BBC trustee Anthony Fry told the PAC there had been "months and months of arguments" between the trust and the BBC executive committee over financial issues such as pay, perks and bonuses - although he admitted that severance packages were not given much attention. |
| "It became a battleground. I got the distinct view... that our views were not being taken with what I believed was the seriousness they deserved," he said. | "It became a battleground. I got the distinct view... that our views were not being taken with what I believed was the seriousness they deserved," he said. |
| The hearing is a follow-up to a similar hearing in July which saw Lord Patten tell MPs he was "shocked and dismayed" by pay-offs totalling £25m to senior managers made between 2009 and 2012. | The hearing is a follow-up to a similar hearing in July which saw Lord Patten tell MPs he was "shocked and dismayed" by pay-offs totalling £25m to senior managers made between 2009 and 2012. |
| He said then that if Mr Thompson was called before MPs, he would be "as interested as you are, why we didn't know" about the payments. | He said then that if Mr Thompson was called before MPs, he would be "as interested as you are, why we didn't know" about the payments. |
| However, ahead of his appearance before the committee on Monday, Mr Thompson sent a letter to the PAC saying statements by Lord Patten were inaccurate and the trust chairman had been "fully briefed" about settlements. | However, ahead of his appearance before the committee on Monday, Mr Thompson sent a letter to the PAC saying statements by Lord Patten were inaccurate and the trust chairman had been "fully briefed" about settlements. |
| Mr Thompson said he had emails which showed that trust members approved the payments. | Mr Thompson said he had emails which showed that trust members approved the payments. |
| He told the MPs on Monday he stood by those documents and said Lord Patten's claims not to know about the settlements were "damaging, unfair and misleading statements". | He told the MPs on Monday he stood by those documents and said Lord Patten's claims not to know about the settlements were "damaging, unfair and misleading statements". |
| In reply, Lord Patten said he took the charge of misleading the committee "very strongly" and insisted that he had been told settlements for Mr Byford and former marketing boss Sharon Baylay were "contractual payments". | In reply, Lord Patten said he took the charge of misleading the committee "very strongly" and insisted that he had been told settlements for Mr Byford and former marketing boss Sharon Baylay were "contractual payments". |
| "I'm in the position in which I'm accused of having misled the committee on something I didn't know and couldn't have been expected to know," he added. | "I'm in the position in which I'm accused of having misled the committee on something I didn't know and couldn't have been expected to know," he added. |
| Trust director Nicholas Kroll said the deputy director general's severance package was not part of the trust's remit. | Trust director Nicholas Kroll said the deputy director general's severance package was not part of the trust's remit. |
| But Mrs Hodge said the "the job of the trust is to protect the licence fee payers' interests", adding: "There is not one person around the table who can understand why there was no challenge from you." | But Mrs Hodge said the "the job of the trust is to protect the licence fee payers' interests", adding: "There is not one person around the table who can understand why there was no challenge from you." |
| 'Persuaded' | 'Persuaded' |
| Former chairman of the BBC executive board remuneration committee Marcus Agius said there had been "a great deal of concern" within his committee "about these redundancies and the amounts". | Former chairman of the BBC executive board remuneration committee Marcus Agius said there had been "a great deal of concern" within his committee "about these redundancies and the amounts". |
| "We challenged and tested Mark Thompson and after sustained debate we were finally persuaded on value for money grounds," he said. | "We challenged and tested Mark Thompson and after sustained debate we were finally persuaded on value for money grounds," he said. |
| Mr Thompson's 13,000-word document to the PAC included an attachment challenging Ms Adams's claim, made at the hearing in July, that she did not know of an email explaining the pay-offs, and appeared to show that, in fact, she helped to compose it. | Mr Thompson's 13,000-word document to the PAC included an attachment challenging Ms Adams's claim, made at the hearing in July, that she did not know of an email explaining the pay-offs, and appeared to show that, in fact, she helped to compose it. |
| However, before Mr Thompson submitted his document, Ms Adams had already written to the PAC and admitted a mistake in earlier evidence due to a failure to recognise the email from its description. | However, before Mr Thompson submitted his document, Ms Adams had already written to the PAC and admitted a mistake in earlier evidence due to a failure to recognise the email from its description. |
| Ms Adams apologised to the committee for that mistake and said she had never meant to imply that Mr Thompson had tried to block plans for a cap on severance pay. | Ms Adams apologised to the committee for that mistake and said she had never meant to imply that Mr Thompson had tried to block plans for a cap on severance pay. |
| She said she took the suggestion of a cap to the executive board before Mr Byford's package was agreed, but it had decided it would be "inappropriate to introduce the cap at that time". | She said she took the suggestion of a cap to the executive board before Mr Byford's package was agreed, but it had decided it would be "inappropriate to introduce the cap at that time". |
| Lord Patten said there remained "a cultural issue" around pay at the BBC "that we really do have to recognise and apologise for and deal with very robustly" - but "trying to get people to face up to lowering salaries and reducing the number of managers is an uphill struggle". | Lord Patten said there remained "a cultural issue" around pay at the BBC "that we really do have to recognise and apologise for and deal with very robustly" - but "trying to get people to face up to lowering salaries and reducing the number of managers is an uphill struggle". |
| He cited the example of what he called "the best cultural director in the world", Neil MacGregor, director of the British Museum - who earns £180,000, and in the light of that, asked how so many BBC salaries higher than that could be "justified". | |
| There have been reports that ministers are planning to axe the BBC Trust and hand responsibility for governance of the corporation to media regulator Ofcom. | There have been reports that ministers are planning to axe the BBC Trust and hand responsibility for governance of the corporation to media regulator Ofcom. |
| Lord Patten said he did not believe there needed to be structural change of that kind and he hoped that over the next couple of years the corporation could demonstrate that existing systems could work. | Lord Patten said he did not believe there needed to be structural change of that kind and he hoped that over the next couple of years the corporation could demonstrate that existing systems could work. |
| The biggest severance payments included: | The biggest severance payments included: |
| The PAC meeting in July followed the publication of a report in which the National Audit Office criticised the corporation, saying the scale of the payments risked public trust. | The PAC meeting in July followed the publication of a report in which the National Audit Office criticised the corporation, saying the scale of the payments risked public trust. |
| A spokesman for the prime minister said "legitimate questions" had been raised about the use of licence payers' money and should be answered. | A spokesman for the prime minister said "legitimate questions" had been raised about the use of licence payers' money and should be answered. |