'The secrets of songwriters' diff viewer (3/4)

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The secrets of songwriters	The secrets of songwriters
2013-09-05 15:10:12 UTC	2013-09-19 21:38:02 UTC (14 days later)
Ray Davies, the Kinks	Ray Davies, the Kinks
Can you recall the sentiment behind writing "Lola"? It was about love, but not directly. The song was designed. I didn't show the words to the band. We just rehearsed it with the la-la la-la Lo-la chorus which came first. I had a one-year-old daughter at the time and she was singing along to it. But I was bothered by the arpeggio guitar at the beginning. I said, "It's got to be hit in the first three seconds." Later I went back in the studio and took the phrase at the end of the verse, C C C C D E, and replayed it at the beginning to grab people's attention. I had a new Martin acoustic guitar which I tracked three times all slightly out of time to give it character. And then I put a National guitar on top of it.	Can you recall the sentiment behind writing "Lola"? It was about love, but not directly. The song was designed. I didn't show the words to the band. We just rehearsed it with the la-la la-la Lo-la chorus which came first. I had a one-year-old daughter at the time and she was singing along to it. But I was bothered by the arpeggio guitar at the beginning. I said, "It's got to be hit in the first three seconds." Later I went back in the studio and took the phrase at the end of the verse, C C C C D E, and replayed it at the beginning to grab people's attention. I had a new Martin acoustic guitar which I tracked three times all slightly out of time to give it character. And then I put a National guitar on top of it.
What was the ambition at the turn of the 70s? The Who and the Kinks were both on a quest for the same destination but went about it in different ways. I did it with things like "Shangri-La" and "Australia", what people call the section songs: the thematic songs. I was trying to set up the idea that songs could be playlets, small theatre pieces. To put them in a format so they could be treated as more than a three-minute pop song. I will always aspire to write the great three-minute song. I've not written it yet. "You Really Got Me", "All Day and All of the Night" and "Tired of Waiting for You" came close. I just know there's more juice in the tank. Better performances. There's always a better song to sing.	What was the ambition at the turn of the 70s? The Who and the Kinks were both on a quest for the same destination but went about it in different ways. I did it with things like "Shangri-La" and "Australia", what people call the section songs: the thematic songs. I was trying to set up the idea that songs could be playlets, small theatre pieces. To put them in a format so they could be treated as more than a three-minute pop song. I will always aspire to write the great three-minute song. I've not written it yet. "You Really Got Me", "All Day and All of the Night" and "Tired of Waiting for You" came close. I just know there's more juice in the tank. Better performances. There's always a better song to sing.
Do you remember writing the intro to "Sunny Afternoon"? I do. I'd bought a little white upright piano second hand. I hadn't written for a time. I'd been quite ill. It's chromatic … writing scales practically on the piano. I was living in a very 60s-decorated house. It had orange walls and green furniture. My one-year-old was crawling around on the floor and I wrote the opening riff. I remember it vividly. I was even wearing a polo-neck sweater. All the times when I've had big success it's been at a time when I'm either ill or miserable or we're stuck. When "You Really Got Me" got to No 1 we were stuck on a train that broke down on the way back from Torquay. The press were waiting to meet us. We all got flu, freezing cold in this carriage. It was a joy to have a hit with "Sunny Afternoon". England won the World Cup and we knocked "Paperback Writer" off the No 1 spot. It's not one of their greatest singles but … it was quite significant.	Do you remember writing the intro to "Sunny Afternoon"? I do. I'd bought a little white upright piano second hand. I hadn't written for a time. I'd been quite ill. It's chromatic … writing scales practically on the piano. I was living in a very 60s-decorated house. It had orange walls and green furniture. My one-year-old was crawling around on the floor and I wrote the opening riff. I remember it vividly. I was even wearing a polo-neck sweater. All the times when I've had big success it's been at a time when I'm either ill or miserable or we're stuck. When "You Really Got Me" got to No 1 we were stuck on a train that broke down on the way back from Torquay. The press were waiting to meet us. We all got flu, freezing cold in this carriage. It was a joy to have a hit with "Sunny Afternoon". England won the World Cup and we knocked "Paperback Writer" off the No 1 spot. It's not one of their greatest singles but … it was quite significant.
Was it difficult as a writer, with the emerging dominance of the Beatles and the Stones? You know what, sometimes they envied our freedom; we had one thing they didn't have and that was the right to fail. We didn't have the publicity machine the Beatles had. They were more accessible. They had more clearly defined roles within the show business society and hierarchy. With the Kinks, sometimes the audience are a little bit hesitant. It's like, "What mood are they in today?", "Are they going to please us or challenge us?" I think in a strange way it's paid off.	Was it difficult as a writer, with the emerging dominance of the Beatles and the Stones? You know what, sometimes they envied our freedom; we had one thing they didn't have and that was the right to fail. We didn't have the publicity machine the Beatles had. They were more accessible. They had more clearly defined roles within the show business society and hierarchy. With the Kinks, sometimes the audience are a little bit hesitant. It's like, "What mood are they in today?", "Are they going to please us or challenge us?" I think in a strange way it's paid off.
Joan Armatrading	Joan Armatrading
Where do you stand on the narrative of your songs? Depends on the song. Some songs are written about me: "Me Myself I", "This Charming Life", "Blessed", "I'm Lucky". You can tell: they say thank you for my life … I do have to get involved in the thing I'm writing about. If we go back to "Liza", people thought that was a gay song but it's about a guy and his fiancee … A song like "At the Hop", that's just a made-up song. It's not something that I do very often, just something to get the rhythm going. "Barefoot and Pregnant": this chap that I knew was telling me about somebody that he knew, this woman who was in this situation of being almost a prisoner to this guy. He would shower her with all kinds, but he wouldn't allow her to go out and have her own life and be her own person. He was very controlling of her. As I say, you have to write in a way that allows people to identify with her.	Where do you stand on the narrative of your songs? Depends on the song. Some songs are written about me: "Me Myself I", "This Charming Life", "Blessed", "I'm Lucky". You can tell: they say thank you for my life … I do have to get involved in the thing I'm writing about. If we go back to "Liza", people thought that was a gay song but it's about a guy and his fiancee … A song like "At the Hop", that's just a made-up song. It's not something that I do very often, just something to get the rhythm going. "Barefoot and Pregnant": this chap that I knew was telling me about somebody that he knew, this woman who was in this situation of being almost a prisoner to this guy. He would shower her with all kinds, but he wouldn't allow her to go out and have her own life and be her own person. He was very controlling of her. As I say, you have to write in a way that allows people to identify with her.
John Lydon, the Sex Pistols	John Lydon, the Sex Pistols
Do you carry a notebook to capture phrases or ideas? No. I wouldn't do that. Urrgh, no I'm not one of the Clash. I remember Joe Strummer used to sit in front of The News at Six and wait for titles and slogans that he could write down. Then he'd rush off and write a song around it: "sten guns in Knightsbridge" and "White Riot". It's all fucking ridiculous. It's too manufactured.	Do you carry a notebook to capture phrases or ideas? No. I wouldn't do that. Urrgh, no I'm not one of the Clash. I remember Joe Strummer used to sit in front of The News at Six and wait for titles and slogans that he could write down. Then he'd rush off and write a song around it: "sten guns in Knightsbridge" and "White Riot". It's all fucking ridiculous. It's too manufactured.
There is poignant footage of you on Christmas Day serving cake to the kids of striking miners and firefighters in Huddersfield, and them chucking it back in your face. Fantastic. The ultimate reward. One of my all-time favourite gigs. Young kids, and we're doing "Bodies" and they're bursting out with laughter on the "fuck this fuck that" verse. The correct response: not the shock horror "How dare you?" Adults bring their own filthy minds into a thing. They don't quite perceive it as a child does. Oh, Johnny's used a naughty word. "Bodies" was from two different points of view. You'll find that theme runs through a lot of things I write like "Rise" – "I could be wrong, I could be right". I'm considering both sides of the argument, always.	There is poignant footage of you on Christmas Day serving cake to the kids of striking miners and firefighters in Huddersfield, and them chucking it back in your face. Fantastic. The ultimate reward. One of my all-time favourite gigs. Young kids, and we're doing "Bodies" and they're bursting out with laughter on the "fuck this fuck that" verse. The correct response: not the shock horror "How dare you?" Adults bring their own filthy minds into a thing. They don't quite perceive it as a child does. Oh, Johnny's used a naughty word. "Bodies" was from two different points of view. You'll find that theme runs through a lot of things I write like "Rise" – "I could be wrong, I could be right". I'm considering both sides of the argument, always.
Was there a point from the unknown to the known John Lydon that affected your writing? It's a tough thing to become instantly Britain's most unpopular, popular person. That's a tough one to try and wriggle out of. You could so easily fall into being a cliche of yourself. There are many people that would love to think that's what happened, but it didn't. But of course the thoughts are there. I'm always riddled with self-doubt. I'm very far from arrogant. That's a word that's wrongly been placed on me; fear and loathing of myself really, and self-doubt and a huge lack of faith in my own capabilities. These are constant problems.	Was there a point from the unknown to the known John Lydon that affected your writing? It's a tough thing to become instantly Britain's most unpopular, popular person. That's a tough one to try and wriggle out of. You could so easily fall into being a cliche of yourself. There are many people that would love to think that's what happened, but it didn't. But of course the thoughts are there. I'm always riddled with self-doubt. I'm very far from arrogant. That's a word that's wrongly been placed on me; fear and loathing of myself really, and self-doubt and a huge lack of faith in my own capabilities. These are constant problems.
What does the name Johnny Rotten mean to you? It was a nickname given to me by Steve Jones. I thought it was hilarious. It was because of my teeth.	What does the name Johnny Rotten mean to you? It was a nickname given to me by Steve Jones. I thought it was hilarious. It was because of my teeth.
It's astonishing "Pretty Vacant" escaped the censors. "Va-cunt": yes, I got away with it holding the pause, but the BBC aired it. There was a debate about it. There was a second's delay. They very rarely let me go out live. It's not because I might use naughty words, the Fs and the Cs which I think are valid: it's the content of what I have to say. It's too disturbing. And it should be. You should make people aware. You should wake people up and give them the freedom of thought. You grab the moment and you turn it into a mad opera and everybody goes home laughing. There's no spite or victimisation in what I do at all, unless you're a government figure.	It's astonishing "Pretty Vacant" escaped the censors. "Va-cunt": yes, I got away with it holding the pause, but the BBC aired it. There was a debate about it. There was a second's delay. They very rarely let me go out live. It's not because I might use naughty words, the Fs and the Cs which I think are valid: it's the content of what I have to say. It's too disturbing. And it should be. You should make people aware. You should wake people up and give them the freedom of thought. You grab the moment and you turn it into a mad opera and everybody goes home laughing. There's no spite or victimisation in what I do at all, unless you're a government figure.
Mick Jones, the Clash	Mick Jones, the Clash
How complete were your and Joe Strummer's ideas before you took them to the band? Sometimes I had a little tape recorder … for instance, "Complete Control" was pretty much all done. "London Calling" we had a thing about the lyrics, but also in the music it was a bit more chunky before and I made it smooth, somehow … They were mostly complete, I think … Later on we got a little bit more experimental. We stretched out a little bit and then obviously we had to cut it down. It was like the two ideas of "Casbah": Bernie [Rhodes] said, "Why does everything have to be raga?" you know, really long … and at the same time, while our manager was saying we need to shorten everything, the ayatollah was saying: "I don't like rock'n'roll." Topper went into the studio; it was amazing. He put the three things down: the piano, the bass and the drums. I did the chorus tune, Shareef don't like it, then Joe did the lyrics, but Topper was the main guy.	How complete were your and Joe Strummer's ideas before you took them to the band? Sometimes I had a little tape recorder … for instance, "Complete Control" was pretty much all done. "London Calling" we had a thing about the lyrics, but also in the music it was a bit more chunky before and I made it smooth, somehow … They were mostly complete, I think … Later on we got a little bit more experimental. We stretched out a little bit and then obviously we had to cut it down. It was like the two ideas of "Casbah": Bernie [Rhodes] said, "Why does everything have to be raga?" you know, really long … and at the same time, while our manager was saying we need to shorten everything, the ayatollah was saying: "I don't like rock'n'roll." Topper went into the studio; it was amazing. He put the three things down: the piano, the bass and the drums. I did the chorus tune, Shareef don't like it, then Joe did the lyrics, but Topper was the main guy.
Paul Weller, the Jam	Paul Weller, the Jam
"Down in the Tube Station at Midnight" revealed your sophistication and depth as a songwriter. Can you describe the evolution of that song and your changing ability to hone in on the small and the particular? That started as a long prose-poem thing, like a short story in a way. It came from my insecurity and paranoia at being in London. I didn't have any music for it. I was in two minds whether to do it. I was coaxed and talked into it by Vic Smith, our producer at the time. He was saying: "This is really good, you should try and set it to music." The attention to the details is part of the person I am anyway, but it's also bound up in the mod ethos which is predominantly all about attention to detail. We were talking about English songwriters: it's picking up on the mundane, the everyday things and putting them, into a different setting, the very, very ordinary feelings, emotions or details that, once in song, you hear them in a different way. Without something too poncey or pretentious I was thinking about pop artists as well, where they took the everyday objects and made them into art. I don't think it's that dissimilar.	"Down in the Tube Station at Midnight" revealed your sophistication and depth as a songwriter. Can you describe the evolution of that song and your changing ability to hone in on the small and the particular? That started as a long prose-poem thing, like a short story in a way. It came from my insecurity and paranoia at being in London. I didn't have any music for it. I was in two minds whether to do it. I was coaxed and talked into it by Vic Smith, our producer at the time. He was saying: "This is really good, you should try and set it to music." The attention to the details is part of the person I am anyway, but it's also bound up in the mod ethos which is predominantly all about attention to detail. We were talking about English songwriters: it's picking up on the mundane, the everyday things and putting them, into a different setting, the very, very ordinary feelings, emotions or details that, once in song, you hear them in a different way. Without something too poncey or pretentious I was thinking about pop artists as well, where they took the everyday objects and made them into art. I don't think it's that dissimilar.
What was the appeal in chronicling the mundane? It's a very English thing, the way we all like to moan about the weather or we like a cup of tea or a particular fucking biscuit and all that nonsense, but it's us. It's our identity, isn't it?	What was the appeal in chronicling the mundane? It's a very English thing, the way we all like to moan about the weather or we like a cup of tea or a particular fucking biscuit and all that nonsense, but it's us. It's our identity, isn't it?
"Saturday Kids" and "That's Entertainment!" are songs that touch people's experiences very deeply but with an apparent simplicity. Was that difficult to achieve? It was easy for me because that's just who I was. I was a very simple person; there isn't any great intellect behind it. It was the simplicity that people connected with: a 20-year-old kid or young man writing how I saw and felt it and connecting with other 20-year-old young people. I didn't have to sit down and deliberate too much on it, put it that way.	"Saturday Kids" and "That's Entertainment!" are songs that touch people's experiences very deeply but with an apparent simplicity. Was that difficult to achieve? It was easy for me because that's just who I was. I was a very simple person; there isn't any great intellect behind it. It was the simplicity that people connected with: a 20-year-old kid or young man writing how I saw and felt it and connecting with other 20-year-old young people. I didn't have to sit down and deliberate too much on it, put it that way.
As in "A Town Called Malice", which for such an upbeat song drops to a minor chord on the verse after the introduction. The flirtation between the major and minor chords is very effective. It is effective, yeah. That's just born out of me growing up on the Beatles and Motown, because they use all those kind of mechanisms. It's part of your tools of the trade.	As in "A Town Called Malice", which for such an upbeat song drops to a minor chord on the verse after the introduction. The flirtation between the major and minor chords is very effective. It is effective, yeah. That's just born out of me growing up on the Beatles and Motown, because they use all those kind of mechanisms. It's part of your tools of the trade.
Sting, the Police	Sting, the Police
I understand you wrote "Walking on the Moon" in a Munich hotel with the original words "walking in the room". I did! I do remember waking up in Munich, it's amazing you know that, and I had that bass riff in my head and I started walking round the room. You can't have "walking round the room"! "Walking on the moon" seemed a useful metaphor for being in love, that feeling of lightness, of just being able to walk on air. It's an old idea. So from that refrain I just worked backwards, so 1969: "Giant steps are what you take", one giant step for mankind … It's not meant to be serious.	I understand you wrote "Walking on the Moon" in a Munich hotel with the original words "walking in the room". I did! I do remember waking up in Munich, it's amazing you know that, and I had that bass riff in my head and I started walking round the room. You can't have "walking round the room"! "Walking on the moon" seemed a useful metaphor for being in love, that feeling of lightness, of just being able to walk on air. It's an old idea. So from that refrain I just worked backwards, so 1969: "Giant steps are what you take", one giant step for mankind … It's not meant to be serious.
Andy Partridge, XTC	Andy Partridge, XTC
Does Swindon shape the sound of your work? Yes, because I can see those chalk hills out of the bedroom or attic window upstairs. I can see the trees. I walk the dog in the park where you can see carpets of daisies or in the summer be getting the idea that you're drowning in flowers. It's enormously influential in its mundanity, in its everyday. It's a Victorian park here, it's a wet alleyway there, it's a load of cars choking up a length of tarmac there. It's some people you know and their funny small-town manners. I don't know about dusty California highways. I don't know about denim-clad hippies, chicks laid across the bonnet of your Buick '57. I don't know about this accepted rock language. It doesn't speak to me.	Does Swindon shape the sound of your work? Yes, because I can see those chalk hills out of the bedroom or attic window upstairs. I can see the trees. I walk the dog in the park where you can see carpets of daisies or in the summer be getting the idea that you're drowning in flowers. It's enormously influential in its mundanity, in its everyday. It's a Victorian park here, it's a wet alleyway there, it's a load of cars choking up a length of tarmac there. It's some people you know and their funny small-town manners. I don't know about dusty California highways. I don't know about denim-clad hippies, chicks laid across the bonnet of your Buick '57. I don't know about this accepted rock language. It doesn't speak to me.
Do you remember writing "Senses Working Overtime"? I'd stand there staring out of the window or at the black wooden floor with a guitar, just trying to pull stuff out. I thought, I'm going to write a single. How do you write a single? What's the most moronic thing I can think of? I know, Manfred Mann's "5-4-3-2-1". Fuckin' hell, that is so moronic, so obviously that was a hit because before it even gets to you people know what the next lyric is going to be: after 5 it's going to be 4; the next lyric is going to be 3. Instantly moronically acceptable. So why don't I use that as a basis and sing "one, two, three, four, five"? I've got the chorus. "Five what? What's five? Five days of the week?" Five senses was the only thing I could think of. So I started to write "one, two, three, four, five senses". What are they doing? "They're working," so you have sensory input. "Wow, they're working overtime. Good phrase. Working, working overtime, senses working overtime. OK, got it." So I've got "one, two, three, four, five senses working overtime". It's got to be instant: it's got to go crunch, crunch, crunch.	Do you remember writing "Senses Working Overtime"? I'd stand there staring out of the window or at the black wooden floor with a guitar, just trying to pull stuff out. I thought, I'm going to write a single. How do you write a single? What's the most moronic thing I can think of? I know, Manfred Mann's "5-4-3-2-1". Fuckin' hell, that is so moronic, so obviously that was a hit because before it even gets to you people know what the next lyric is going to be: after 5 it's going to be 4; the next lyric is going to be 3. Instantly moronically acceptable. So why don't I use that as a basis and sing "one, two, three, four, five"? I've got the chorus. "Five what? What's five? Five days of the week?" Five senses was the only thing I could think of. So I started to write "one, two, three, four, five senses". What are they doing? "They're working," so you have sensory input. "Wow, they're working overtime. Good phrase. Working, working overtime, senses working overtime. OK, got it." So I've got "one, two, three, four, five senses working overtime". It's got to be instant: it's got to go crunch, crunch, crunch.
Chris Difford, Squeeze	Chris Difford, Squeeze
"Black Coffee in Bed" opens with "There's a stain on my notebook" and "Is That Love" begins "You've left my ring by the soap". Do lyrical ideas infiltrate your everyday thoughts? Yes, images that burn themselves into lyrics. It's a bit like blotting paper: it blots up the images. If they're interesting enough I can use them in some way. "Is That Love" was about the domestic situation I was in at the time. We'd just got married, the whole nesting thing had been taken care of and now we were just man and wife. The ring was by the soap, the beds were being made. It had become very mundane: is that love? The finger was being pointed at the individual.	"Black Coffee in Bed" opens with "There's a stain on my notebook" and "Is That Love" begins "You've left my ring by the soap". Do lyrical ideas infiltrate your everyday thoughts? Yes, images that burn themselves into lyrics. It's a bit like blotting paper: it blots up the images. If they're interesting enough I can use them in some way. "Is That Love" was about the domestic situation I was in at the time. We'd just got married, the whole nesting thing had been taken care of and now we were just man and wife. The ring was by the soap, the beds were being made. It had become very mundane: is that love? The finger was being pointed at the individual.
Did "Up the Junction" originally have 10-plus verses? It was quite long. Glenn's got all the original lyrics. It was my attempt to write something like Dylan's "Who Killed Davey Moore?", although more so; it was inspired by a radio show, folk music hour or something, and there was this wonderful domestic song. It may have been Shirley Collins. I thought, that's amazing, how she's summed up domestic harmony, or disharmony.	Did "Up the Junction" originally have 10-plus verses? It was quite long. Glenn's got all the original lyrics. It was my attempt to write something like Dylan's "Who Killed Davey Moore?", although more so; it was inspired by a radio show, folk music hour or something, and there was this wonderful domestic song. It may have been Shirley Collins. I thought, that's amazing, how she's summed up domestic harmony, or disharmony.
Suggs, Madness	Suggs, Madness
What gave you the confidence to keep writing? I wrote "Baggy Trousers" pretty early on, which was a good start. In that context I used to really like Ian Dury and I noticed quite a lot of his songs were just lists of things. That was a list of things I felt about going to school that I then managed to make rhyme and into the format of what could be sung as a pop song. I didn't set out to do that. Then I came up with the idea of the chorus because Pink Floyd had written that song "Teacher, leave them kids alone" ["Another Brick in the Wall"]. I remembered how put-upon the teachers were at my school so I decided to make the chorus "Oh what fun we had, but at the time it seemed so bad" to try and put both sides of that coin. I suppose there was some innate guilt that I'd let myself down at school and it wasn't the teachers' fault any more than it was my fault that the school was so rubbish.	What gave you the confidence to keep writing? I wrote "Baggy Trousers" pretty early on, which was a good start. In that context I used to really like Ian Dury and I noticed quite a lot of his songs were just lists of things. That was a list of things I felt about going to school that I then managed to make rhyme and into the format of what could be sung as a pop song. I didn't set out to do that. Then I came up with the idea of the chorus because Pink Floyd had written that song "Teacher, leave them kids alone" ["Another Brick in the Wall"]. I remembered how put-upon the teachers were at my school so I decided to make the chorus "Oh what fun we had, but at the time it seemed so bad" to try and put both sides of that coin. I suppose there was some innate guilt that I'd let myself down at school and it wasn't the teachers' fault any more than it was my fault that the school was so rubbish.
Do you keep the rails of meaning in place when you are writing or do you allow your imagination free rein? Each time I've written a song it's because of some peculiar combination of coincidences. I was in a pub on the corner and they put "Our House" on the jukebox. I was thinking about the whole thing: the tambourine, the idea we were trying to do something a bit Motowny. We were going to do a concept album about London and then Cathal [Smyth, aka Chas Smash] was the only one who wrote any words. We had this really fantastic string part, then we got to the chorus and there's no strings because we put the chorus in after. Clive Langer said, "We've got to have some sort of chorus," so we wrote this quite prosaic "our house in the middle of our street", which I thought was a bit boring, but actually because the song was so melodic and fabulous it really worked. It was totally outside of the idea of crafting in any way.	Do you keep the rails of meaning in place when you are writing or do you allow your imagination free rein? Each time I've written a song it's because of some peculiar combination of coincidences. I was in a pub on the corner and they put "Our House" on the jukebox. I was thinking about the whole thing: the tambourine, the idea we were trying to do something a bit Motowny. We were going to do a concept album about London and then Cathal [Smyth, aka Chas Smash] was the only one who wrote any words. We had this really fantastic string part, then we got to the chorus and there's no strings because we put the chorus in after. Clive Langer said, "We've got to have some sort of chorus," so we wrote this quite prosaic "our house in the middle of our street", which I thought was a bit boring, but actually because the song was so melodic and fabulous it really worked. It was totally outside of the idea of crafting in any way.
Annie Lennox, Eurythmics	Annie Lennox, Eurythmics
Did you have territories of writing as your relationship with Dave Stewart developed? I wouldn't really like to think of them as "territories", but I wrote the lyrics and Dave would work as a kind of mentor/editor in that department. Sometimes I'd write 90% of a complete song … like "Sisters Are Doin' It for Themselves", or "There Must Be an Angel (Playing With My Heart)", where Dave would have great input in terms of structure and form, and at other times we'd start a song from scratch and both put ideas in, like "Sweet Dreams" or "Here Comes the Rain Again". He was definitely in charge of the technical side of the recording process, as he's incredibly au fait with cutting-edge technology, so he was more of a "producer" in that sense, but I also had a part to play in production ideas in a more organic way. We always shared everything 50-50, as that was how we saw our partnership.	Did you have territories of writing as your relationship with Dave Stewart developed? I wouldn't really like to think of them as "territories", but I wrote the lyrics and Dave would work as a kind of mentor/editor in that department. Sometimes I'd write 90% of a complete song … like "Sisters Are Doin' It for Themselves", or "There Must Be an Angel (Playing With My Heart)", where Dave would have great input in terms of structure and form, and at other times we'd start a song from scratch and both put ideas in, like "Sweet Dreams" or "Here Comes the Rain Again". He was definitely in charge of the technical side of the recording process, as he's incredibly au fait with cutting-edge technology, so he was more of a "producer" in that sense, but I also had a part to play in production ideas in a more organic way. We always shared everything 50-50, as that was how we saw our partnership.
Johnny Marr, the Smiths	Johnny Marr, the Smiths
I understand the inspiration for "Hand in Glove" necessitated calling at Morrissey's house without an invitation. I was round at my parents' house and I'd moved my cassette player to where I was living. There was this little guitar that Andy [Rourke] had given me and I'd given to my little brother. I played the riff and immediately knew it was a song. Angie had her parents' little Volkswagen outside; she'd just passed her test, and we drove to Morrissey's, and by the time she'd driven there she'd said about five times: "Make it sound like Iggy." So I went from these clipped kind of funky chords to this big open thing. She was absolutely right. I've still got this three-track cassette recorder, which is a kind of an anomaly; it's two-track and you can bounce it down, and we wrote all the early Smiths stuff on that.	I understand the inspiration for "Hand in Glove" necessitated calling at Morrissey's house without an invitation. I was round at my parents' house and I'd moved my cassette player to where I was living. There was this little guitar that Andy [Rourke] had given me and I'd given to my little brother. I played the riff and immediately knew it was a song. Angie had her parents' little Volkswagen outside; she'd just passed her test, and we drove to Morrissey's, and by the time she'd driven there she'd said about five times: "Make it sound like Iggy." So I went from these clipped kind of funky chords to this big open thing. She was absolutely right. I've still got this three-track cassette recorder, which is a kind of an anomaly; it's two-track and you can bounce it down, and we wrote all the early Smiths stuff on that.
"Bigmouth Strikes Again" has just one opening verse, which is unusual for a pop song. Was the shape of the song your vision or was it determined by Morrissey's vocal decisions? Both of us had absolute unshakable faith that what the other person was doing was right, whether we heard it or not. Alongside that, unshakable faith in what we were doing individually. In that example, it didn't need to go anywhere else … It would have got too conceptual, too conceived, too thought out and just too fucking crafted had I put some clever bit in there. It'd have been bottling it. Sometimes it's cooler just to let it go, let it fly. "Rusholme Ruffians" is an extreme example of that. It's just the same cycle. The same point being made round and round and round … It would have been the easiest thing in the world to add a device to break it up. I wanted it to be insistent.	"Bigmouth Strikes Again" has just one opening verse, which is unusual for a pop song. Was the shape of the song your vision or was it determined by Morrissey's vocal decisions? Both of us had absolute unshakable faith that what the other person was doing was right, whether we heard it or not. Alongside that, unshakable faith in what we were doing individually. In that example, it didn't need to go anywhere else … It would have got too conceptual, too conceived, too thought out and just too fucking crafted had I put some clever bit in there. It'd have been bottling it. Sometimes it's cooler just to let it go, let it fly. "Rusholme Ruffians" is an extreme example of that. It's just the same cycle. The same point being made round and round and round … It would have been the easiest thing in the world to add a device to break it up. I wanted it to be insistent.
The marriage between your music and Morrissey's words is so fluent it's incredible they were not conceived together. That is proof that despite the differences in our personalities there were emotions underneath that we both share and understand about each other, whether we like it or not. Luckily we found each other and were able to put it to music. We helped each other realise our dreams and escape our situations and have success. But we also found someone that we could both match and play emotional snap with. We were both romantics.	The marriage between your music and Morrissey's words is so fluent it's incredible they were not conceived together. That is proof that despite the differences in our personalities there were emotions underneath that we both share and understand about each other, whether we like it or not. Luckily we found each other and were able to put it to music. We helped each other realise our dreams and escape our situations and have success. But we also found someone that we could both match and play emotional snap with. We were both romantics.
Did your music change when you became familiar with Morrissey's personality? Not the way I composed or the technique, we both expressed things … there's a lot of our relationship in those songs. That's not to say the words are about our relationship, but the feeling in the recordings and some of the songs are a product of our relationship because we are so wrapped up in each other.	Did your music change when you became familiar with Morrissey's personality? Not the way I composed or the technique, we both expressed things … there's a lot of our relationship in those songs. That's not to say the words are about our relationship, but the feeling in the recordings and some of the songs are a product of our relationship because we are so wrapped up in each other.