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On Gay Priests, Pope Francis Asks, ‘Who Am I to Judge?’ On Gay Priests, Pope Francis Asks, ‘Who Am I to Judge?’
(about 4 hours later)
ROME — Striking a breathtakingly conciliatory approach to a hot-button issue that has divided Catholics, Pope Francis on Monday said that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis said, according to media reports. ROME — For generations, homosexuality has largely been a taboo topic for the Vatican, ignored altogether or treated as “an intrinsic moral evil,” in the words of the previous pope.
His comments came in an unprecedented 80-minute news conference with reporters on his plane returning from a papal visit to Brazil for World Youth Day, in which he spoke openly about everything from the troubled Vatican Bank to the greater role that he believed women should have in the Catholic Church. In that context, brief remarks by Pope Francis suggesting that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, made aboard the papal airplane on the way back from his first foreign trip, to Brazil, resonated through the church. Never veering from church doctrine opposing homosexuality, Francis did strike a more compassionate tone than that of his predecessors, some of whom had largely avoided even saying the more colloquial “gay.”
His predecessor, Benedict XVI, who retired in February, wrote a Vatican document that said that men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should not become priests. During his papal trips, Benedict responded only to a handful of preselected questions from reporters. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis told reporters, speaking in Italian but using the English word “gay.”
Reporters on the plane said that the pope had been candid and high-spirited and did not dodge a single question, even thanking the person who asked about reports of a “gay lobby” inside the Vatican, and about Italian press reports that one of the advisers he had appointed to look into the Vatican Bank had been accused of having gay trysts. Francis’s words could not have been more different from those of Benedict XVI, who in 2005 wrote that homosexuality was “a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder.” The church document said that men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should not become priests.
Francis said he had investigated the reports and found them groundless. He added that while such a lobby would be an issue, he did not have anything against gays and that their sins should be forgiven, media reports said. He said that homosexuals should be treated with dignity and that no one should be blackmailed or pressured because of sexual orientation.. However, nothing in what he said suggested acceptance of anyone, priest or otherwise, engaging in homosexual acts. Vatican experts were quick to point out that Francis was not suggesting that the priests or anyone else should act on their homosexual tendencies, which the church considers a sin. But the fact that he made such comments — and used the word “gay” — was nevertheless revolutionary, and likely to generate significant discussion in local dioceses, where bishops are divided over whether to accept priests who are gay but celibate.
The pope also told reporters that while Pope John Paul II had definitively closed the door to female priests, Francis sought a “theology of women” and a greater role for them inside Catholic life, according to The National Catholic Reporter. “It’s not a great opening in terms of contents, but the fact that he talked about it that way is a great novelty,” said Paolo Rodari, a Vatican expert at the Italian daily La Repubblica. Francis would probably agree with Benedict’s writings on homosexuality, he added, “but it doesn’t interest him.”
Since he became pope in March, Francis has been known for his style of radical simplicity and directness, an approach that seemed to go over well on his first foreign trip. While Benedict’s 2007 visit to Brazil was subdued, Francis was greeted like a rock star by throngs of the faithful, and more than a million people — some reports said as many as three million — gathered for an open-air Mass on Copacabana Beach on Sunday. “It interests him to say that the problem in the end isn’t if someone has this tendency, the important thing is to live in the light of God,” Mr. Rodari said. “Said by a pope, it’s enormous.”
In recent years, both Benedict and Francis have tried to institute changes at the Vatican Bank, known as the Institute for Works of Religion, or its Italian acronym, I.O.R., so that it meets international anti-money-laundering norms that are a condition for using the euro. The bank has been reluctant about revealing who its account holders were and is investigating cases in which prelates with accounts there may have been fronts for others. Francis also told reporters that while Pope John Paul II had definitively closed the door to female priests, he sought a “theology of women” and a greater role for them in Catholic life, news reports said.
Asked about the Vatican Bank, Francis said, according to The Vatican Insider: “Some say that it’s better to have a bank, others that it would be better to have a fund, still others say to close it. I trust in the work of the people at the I.O.R. and of the commission that’s working on it. I can’t say how it will end.” The pope’s comments on homosexuals and women in the church were yet another sign of the different directions from which Benedict and Francis approach doctrine. While Benedict, the shy theologian, focused more on ethics and advocated a more pure church, even if it might end up being smaller, Francis was elected for his belief that the Catholic Church must engage in dialogue with the world — even with those it disagrees with — if it wants to stay vibrant and relevant.
“But certainly whatever the I.O.R. becomes requires transparency and honesty,” the pope added. “At a certain point, tone becomes substance if it’s seen as revitalizing the prospects of the church,” said John L. Allen, Jr., a Vatican expert at The National Catholic Reporter.
Francis also commented on the case of Msgr. Nunzio Scarano, who was suspended as an accountant in the Vatican after being arrested in June for his alleged involvement in a plot to bring 20 million euros from Switzerland into Italy with the help of a former secret service agent and a financial broker, both of whom were also arrested. In Benedict’s more subdued 2007 visit to Brazil, where Evangelical churches are making rapid inroads in the Catholic majority, he delivered speeches to bishops about how to respond to postmodern society.
Francis said, jokingly, that the monsignor had not been jailed “because he resembles the Blessed Imelda,” using an expression that means “he’s no saint,” The National Catholic Reporter reported. In contrast, Francis spoke on the beach, engaged with the masses and was greeted like a rock star by followers entranced by his approachable style and homespun folksy adages. (“You can always add more water to the beans,” he said at one point.)
More than a million people gathered for an open-air Mass on Copacabana Beach on Sunday. At one event, bishops danced on stage to upbeat music. The spectacle was clearly aimed at competing with Evangelical churches that have a more “pop” style.
“We can see the figure of Peter so near to us,” said Milena Rocha, 20, a Brazilian student who slept on the beach Saturday night along with thousands of others in a vigil before the pope’s final Mass on Sunday, comparing Francis to St. Peter.
She said that the vigil, in which many camped on the sands on pieces of cardboard, showed the energy that Francis was bringing to the church in Brazil, which has more Catholics than any other country, an estimated 123 million.
Despite missteps by organizers, including one that compromised security, the visit unfolded peacefully, giving many people a chance to glimpse or even embrace Francis.
“This pope keeps renewing the church,” said Claudia Brandão, 30, a housewife who traveled from Angola with her 9-month-old daughter.
In 2007, “Benedict came and played the standard classical nocturne that he was famous for, and his devotees loved it. Francis came and played the guitar in his very accessible style and the crowds went wild,” said Mr. Allen, who traveled to Brazil for both trips.
Before he resigned in February, Benedict’s papacy had been marked by scandals — a sex abuse scandal, a leaks scandal and trouble with the secretive Vatican Bank. Francis, with his style of radical simplicity and his direct manner, has shifted things. “He’s completely changed the narrative about the church,” Mr. Allen said. “In five months, now the dominant Catholic story is ‘Charismatic Pope Takes World by Storm.’ ”
During his papal trips, John Paul II loved to walk to the back of the plane and chat with reporters, while Benedict only responded to a handful of preselected questions. Francis, on the overnight flight back to Rome from Rio de Janeiro, spoke freely to reporters for 80 minutes about everything from the Vatican Bank troubles to his decision not to live in the Apostolic Palace but rather in a Vatican residence.
Francis didn’t dodge a single question, even thanking the person who prompted his comments on homosexuality, asking about Italian news reports of a “gay lobby” inside the Vatican, with clerics blackmailing one another with information about sexual missteps.
“So much is written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay,” Francis said, chuckling. “They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good.”
A cover story in the Italian weekly L’Espresso this month alleged that one of the advisers that Francis had appointed to look into the Vatican Bank, Monsignor Battista Ricca, had been accused of having gay trysts when he was a Vatican diplomat in Uruguay. The pope told reporters that nothing in the documentation he had seen substantiated the reports.
He added that such a lobby would be an issue, but that he did not have anything against gays and that their sins should be forgiven like those of all Catholics. Francis said that homosexuals should be treated with dignity, and that no one should be subjected to blackmail or pressure because of their sexual orientation.
“The problem isn’t having this orientation. The problem is making a lobby,” he said.
In recent years, both Benedict and Francis have tried to make changes at the Vatican Bank so that it meets international anti-money-laundering norms that are a condition for using the euro.
Asked about the bank, Francis said, “Some say that it’s better to have a bank, others that it would be better to have a fund, still others say to close it.”
Asked what was in the black briefcase that he was seen carrying onto the plane by himself en route to Brazil, Francis said he had a razor, a breviary, and a book about St. Teresa. “It’s normal to carry a bag,” he said, according to news reports. “I’m a bit surprised that the image of the bag made its way around the world. Anyway, it wasn’t the suitcase with the codes for the nuclear bomb.”

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: July 29, 2013Correction: July 29, 2013

An earlier version of this article gave an incorrect date for Pope Benedict XVI’s trip to Brazil. His visit to Latin America, including Brazil, was in 2007, not 2006.

An earlier version of this article gave an incorrect date for Pope Benedict XVI’s trip to Brazil. His visit to Latin America, including Brazil, was in 2007, not 2006.