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GEITF chair Karl Warner: 'The BBC must be bold and take risks' GEITF chair Karl Warner: 'The BBC must be bold and take risks'
(2 months later)
BBC entertainment commissioning executive and this year's Guardian Edinburgh International Television Festival advisory chair Karl Warner has just come from a meeting with media mogul Simon Fuller.BBC entertainment commissioning executive and this year's Guardian Edinburgh International Television Festival advisory chair Karl Warner has just come from a meeting with media mogul Simon Fuller.
It was just an "initial hello" apparently, rather than a discus sion about particular shows, but with Fuller's animated music group show The Meeps and Warner's forthcoming BBC1 Saturday night series That Puppet Gameshow about to air, there must have been some talk about non-human talent fronting programmes.It was just an "initial hello" apparently, rather than a discus sion about particular shows, but with Fuller's animated music group show The Meeps and Warner's forthcoming BBC1 Saturday night series That Puppet Gameshow about to air, there must have been some talk about non-human talent fronting programmes.
Funnily enough, talent and puppetry are two of the sessions at this year's festival next month, which – good news for those of you limbering up your liver for this Edinburgh – Warner has not unexpectedly made more entertaining. In addition to Kevin Spacey giving the MacTaggart, Miranda Hart is delivering the Richard Dunn Memorial Lecture, Mary Berry and Paul Hollywood are judging a special version of The Great British Bake Off, Brian Henson will have puppets live on stage, Sherlock and Bond film composer David Arnold will be making music and John Bishop is a judge on a live "Sitcom Idol"-style competition.Funnily enough, talent and puppetry are two of the sessions at this year's festival next month, which – good news for those of you limbering up your liver for this Edinburgh – Warner has not unexpectedly made more entertaining. In addition to Kevin Spacey giving the MacTaggart, Miranda Hart is delivering the Richard Dunn Memorial Lecture, Mary Berry and Paul Hollywood are judging a special version of The Great British Bake Off, Brian Henson will have puppets live on stage, Sherlock and Bond film composer David Arnold will be making music and John Bishop is a judge on a live "Sitcom Idol"-style competition.
"There have been some brilliant things at the festival – but sometimes in the past I've felt it was slightly in danger of feeling more like a conference, not a festival, and that things like licence fee settlements or funding models take over the creative discussion," says 34-year-old Warner."There have been some brilliant things at the festival – but sometimes in the past I've felt it was slightly in danger of feeling more like a conference, not a festival, and that things like licence fee settlements or funding models take over the creative discussion," says 34-year-old Warner.
The Muppet Show theme tune lyrics – "Why do we always come here/ I guess we'll never know/ It's like a kind of torture/ To have to watch the show" – sometimes seem appropriate for Edinburgh veterans. Not on Warner's watch: "I would say 99% of the people who go to the festival are creative. They got into television because they want to express themselves creatively. We should reflect that much more. It's often four white men in suits sat round talking about the licence fee."The Muppet Show theme tune lyrics – "Why do we always come here/ I guess we'll never know/ It's like a kind of torture/ To have to watch the show" – sometimes seem appropriate for Edinburgh veterans. Not on Warner's watch: "I would say 99% of the people who go to the festival are creative. They got into television because they want to express themselves creatively. We should reflect that much more. It's often four white men in suits sat round talking about the licence fee."
Warner's theme for his festival is storytelling ("I think it's important to remind everyone in television that's what we do, we're telling stories"), which explains the invitation to Spacey, who was secured via festival executive and Freuds consultant Ruth Settle and her colleague Nicola Howson. Warner says: "What's great about the festival is you get different chairs from year to year and they hopefully inject a bit of their personality. I work in the business of entertainment and I love the idea that Kevin is going to put a show on for us and I'm really excited about that."Warner's theme for his festival is storytelling ("I think it's important to remind everyone in television that's what we do, we're telling stories"), which explains the invitation to Spacey, who was secured via festival executive and Freuds consultant Ruth Settle and her colleague Nicola Howson. Warner says: "What's great about the festival is you get different chairs from year to year and they hopefully inject a bit of their personality. I work in the business of entertainment and I love the idea that Kevin is going to put a show on for us and I'm really excited about that."
He says he doesn't "want to give away too much" but the main things Spacey will cover include "the creative challenges we all face as storytellers" and his experience of making House of Cards with Netflix. "Interestingly he made the point that … the relationship he had with [Netflix] did change the storytelling process, not radically, but it did because it was funded upfront and that gave him a different sort of comfort and attitude to the way he told the story.He says he doesn't "want to give away too much" but the main things Spacey will cover include "the creative challenges we all face as storytellers" and his experience of making House of Cards with Netflix. "Interestingly he made the point that … the relationship he had with [Netflix] did change the storytelling process, not radically, but it did because it was funded upfront and that gave him a different sort of comfort and attitude to the way he told the story.
"He'll talk about that and how that model of putting it up online to be consumed all at once is perhaps a lesson we're learning that perhaps the music industry didn't learn."He'll talk about that and how that model of putting it up online to be consumed all at once is perhaps a lesson we're learning that perhaps the music industry didn't learn.
"He'll also talk about the importance of supporting younger, newer talent and he's got some really interesting views about that and he'll also tell us what he thinks about television. When I met him, the jury was out on whether he liked it or not." It could be a MacTaggart lecture with hints of Dennis Potter or John Humphrys."He'll also talk about the importance of supporting younger, newer talent and he's got some really interesting views about that and he'll also tell us what he thinks about television. When I met him, the jury was out on whether he liked it or not." It could be a MacTaggart lecture with hints of Dennis Potter or John Humphrys.
Past festivals may have focused on technology but as the jovial Warner says: "People often obsess about it a bit too much, in my opinion, because no matter what you're watching or taking in, whether on mobile, iPad television, it's still a pretty straightforward story. The storytelling process is unchanged – whilst the way we consume it has changed, that hasn't."Past festivals may have focused on technology but as the jovial Warner says: "People often obsess about it a bit too much, in my opinion, because no matter what you're watching or taking in, whether on mobile, iPad television, it's still a pretty straightforward story. The storytelling process is unchanged – whilst the way we consume it has changed, that hasn't."
Talking of storytelling, he has a tale about the festival session called The Worst TV I've Made that Taught Me Everything. Warner says it will be inspiring "seeing four or five really successful producers saying 'you know what, it's hard and I bodged this up but it doesn't matter'."Talking of storytelling, he has a tale about the festival session called The Worst TV I've Made that Taught Me Everything. Warner says it will be inspiring "seeing four or five really successful producers saying 'you know what, it's hard and I bodged this up but it doesn't matter'."
He is not sure what his own worst effort was, but his most peculiar was an MTV show involving four pieces of string and four willies. "We needed an end game for it, and went for this game, for boys, where you put a hole in the middle of the table, put string down and tie it to your genitals. You mix up the string and you yank on one and you've got to not reveal who it is. If you reveal who it is by flinching then you have to drink. I talked about this in the brainstorming at MTV and they said 'That's brilliant, we should do that'.He is not sure what his own worst effort was, but his most peculiar was an MTV show involving four pieces of string and four willies. "We needed an end game for it, and went for this game, for boys, where you put a hole in the middle of the table, put string down and tie it to your genitals. You mix up the string and you yank on one and you've got to not reveal who it is. If you reveal who it is by flinching then you have to drink. I talked about this in the brainstorming at MTV and they said 'That's brilliant, we should do that'.
"Fast-forward three months later on to the production and I'm stood there with these pieces of string, these four poor lads and we're playing this end game and I'm yanking on their dicks. And I'm thinking: 'My mum worked really hard for me to get through my education and this is what it's become'.""Fast-forward three months later on to the production and I'm stood there with these pieces of string, these four poor lads and we're playing this end game and I'm yanking on their dicks. And I'm thinking: 'My mum worked really hard for me to get through my education and this is what it's become'."
Famous for his his candour and can-do attitude – and for being the Celebrity Big Brother producer who persuaded George Galloway to pretend to be a cat – he also was part of the original team behind Strictly Come Dancing and worked on Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow, John Bishop's Britain, Russell Howard's Good News and the dating show Chained.Famous for his his candour and can-do attitude – and for being the Celebrity Big Brother producer who persuaded George Galloway to pretend to be a cat – he also was part of the original team behind Strictly Come Dancing and worked on Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow, John Bishop's Britain, Russell Howard's Good News and the dating show Chained.
"We'd always cast from quite a sort of pool of slightly less appealing people and they'd always end up shagging on this chain. And you'd hear this clinking. One night someone left load a load of dildos in the bed … I've told you two really grubby stories! I want you to know I've been involved in [BBC3 show] Junior Doctors!" he laughs."We'd always cast from quite a sort of pool of slightly less appealing people and they'd always end up shagging on this chain. And you'd hear this clinking. One night someone left load a load of dildos in the bed … I've told you two really grubby stories! I want you to know I've been involved in [BBC3 show] Junior Doctors!" he laughs.
Other festival sessions include The Great British Bake Off – new BBC1 controller Charlotte Moore is now unable to take part – for which production companies are encouraged to bring along cakes representing their companies. Warner's former employer Endemol's cake, for example, could be quite big and rich but occasionally prone to a soggy bottom.Other festival sessions include The Great British Bake Off – new BBC1 controller Charlotte Moore is now unable to take part – for which production companies are encouraged to bring along cakes representing their companies. Warner's former employer Endemol's cake, for example, could be quite big and rich but occasionally prone to a soggy bottom.
Ten months after BBC director general George Entwistle's resignation, the festival will also explore how to manage a media crisis, and there will be more sessions with controllers from more channels, including commissioners from YouTube and Xbox.Ten months after BBC director general George Entwistle's resignation, the festival will also explore how to manage a media crisis, and there will be more sessions with controllers from more channels, including commissioners from YouTube and Xbox.
Warner is determined to get down to the nuts and bolts of the industry, including a session on the relationship between commissioners and producers, a hot topic after former BBC executive Tom Archer's recently slating of some commissioners as an "uncreative crust". "Am I a crust? Oh Tom, that's a bit mean," Warner jokes before explaining the festival is doing a survey of 100 production companies, with the resulting anecdotes aired live on stage – voiced Creature Comforts-style by animated characters.Warner is determined to get down to the nuts and bolts of the industry, including a session on the relationship between commissioners and producers, a hot topic after former BBC executive Tom Archer's recently slating of some commissioners as an "uncreative crust". "Am I a crust? Oh Tom, that's a bit mean," Warner jokes before explaining the festival is doing a survey of 100 production companies, with the resulting anecdotes aired live on stage – voiced Creature Comforts-style by animated characters.
Warner hopes it will encourage a debate among broadcasters that will lead to a code of practice. "I think individually lots of broadcasters are trying to do this anyway. But here you'll have them all on a stage, trying to agree on a way of behaving or a set of working principles, this is what we agree is kind of right and proper. There isn't at the moment, even on a simple level of how quickly we'll get back to each other on emails."Warner hopes it will encourage a debate among broadcasters that will lead to a code of practice. "I think individually lots of broadcasters are trying to do this anyway. But here you'll have them all on a stage, trying to agree on a way of behaving or a set of working principles, this is what we agree is kind of right and proper. There isn't at the moment, even on a simple level of how quickly we'll get back to each other on emails."
Considering he has been charged with finding big shows for Saturday nights, the fast-talking Warner unsurprisingly did consider looking at the topic at the festival.Considering he has been charged with finding big shows for Saturday nights, the fast-talking Warner unsurprisingly did consider looking at the topic at the festival.
However he says next year will be more interesting for the genre because "a lot of shows are potentially looking like they are coming to the end of their life span and a lot of new shows coming through."However he says next year will be more interesting for the genre because "a lot of shows are potentially looking like they are coming to the end of their life span and a lot of new shows coming through."
"What's really difficult about Saturday nights is that we're sort of creatively locked in a very narrow space of it's only singing or it's only dancing – the talent show or the elimination show format – and because we've had so much success with them it's almost like the worst place creatively to be because it breeds a nervousness about ever trying something else. We really have to be quite brave and hold our nerve and try and break out into new spaces.""What's really difficult about Saturday nights is that we're sort of creatively locked in a very narrow space of it's only singing or it's only dancing – the talent show or the elimination show format – and because we've had so much success with them it's almost like the worst place creatively to be because it breeds a nervousness about ever trying something else. We really have to be quite brave and hold our nerve and try and break out into new spaces."
Interestingly Warner, who worked on developing Strictly Come Dancing, believes "creatively it's dangerous for us to obsess too much with reinventing old shows, some very successfully.Interestingly Warner, who worked on developing Strictly Come Dancing, believes "creatively it's dangerous for us to obsess too much with reinventing old shows, some very successfully.
"There's been a lot of that. Creatives because we're often in the unknown and it's scary that, we're often looking for some sort of formula, something to hold on to. So I think there's a slight tendency to think 'Oh if we just keep reinventing old shows that used to be successful that'll work' and I think that's dangerous cos it's not how creativity works and I think audiences will find that quite predictable in the end.""There's been a lot of that. Creatives because we're often in the unknown and it's scary that, we're often looking for some sort of formula, something to hold on to. So I think there's a slight tendency to think 'Oh if we just keep reinventing old shows that used to be successful that'll work' and I think that's dangerous cos it's not how creativity works and I think audiences will find that quite predictable in the end."
As he says, forthcoming ITV show Your Face Sounds Familiar – which could arguably be called Your Format Sounds Familiar – sounds "like a reworking of Stars In Their Eyes".As he says, forthcoming ITV show Your Face Sounds Familiar – which could arguably be called Your Format Sounds Familiar – sounds "like a reworking of Stars In Their Eyes".
Warner maintains the BBC's remit is "to be bold and take risks – hoping that the audience forgive us a bit if we get it wrong, and know that overall we'll get it right". There have been reports that he could be soon poached by an indie but he insists he is "genuinely really happy" at the BBC ("I've got my BBC tattoo").Warner maintains the BBC's remit is "to be bold and take risks – hoping that the audience forgive us a bit if we get it wrong, and know that overall we'll get it right". There have been reports that he could be soon poached by an indie but he insists he is "genuinely really happy" at the BBC ("I've got my BBC tattoo").
However, he is concerned about the threat continuing cuts pose to the future of his genre: "I think we had 20% cuts, that affected us probably most on BBC2. To be honest I think it's a real worry for entertainment. We've still got money to spend and we've had it pretty good; but I do worry that a year, two years from now if we don't sort of kick on there might be a bigger problem, and it might be harder to try and fix it."However, he is concerned about the threat continuing cuts pose to the future of his genre: "I think we had 20% cuts, that affected us probably most on BBC2. To be honest I think it's a real worry for entertainment. We've still got money to spend and we've had it pretty good; but I do worry that a year, two years from now if we don't sort of kick on there might be a bigger problem, and it might be harder to try and fix it."
Most of all Warner wants entertainment not to be seen as "a guilty pleasure", as "actually audiences love it and you get the best shared viewing for families, and the nation coming together around huge entertainment shows".Most of all Warner wants entertainment not to be seen as "a guilty pleasure", as "actually audiences love it and you get the best shared viewing for families, and the nation coming together around huge entertainment shows".
He says director general Tony Hall "thinks entertainment is just as important" as other genres, but adds: "You get people championing the arts or documentaries because people think they have an integrity to them, but I worry [there's a risk of] no one standing up and championing entertainment. I think entertainment does have an integrity to it and is really important. I worry that if we don't support it there will be no Strictly in 10 years' time."He says director general Tony Hall "thinks entertainment is just as important" as other genres, but adds: "You get people championing the arts or documentaries because people think they have an integrity to them, but I worry [there's a risk of] no one standing up and championing entertainment. I think entertainment does have an integrity to it and is really important. I worry that if we don't support it there will be no Strictly in 10 years' time."
GEITF runs from August 22-24. Visit www.geitf.co.uk to register. Follow on Twitter via @edinburghtvfestGEITF runs from August 22-24. Visit www.geitf.co.uk to register. Follow on Twitter via @edinburghtvfest
Curriculum vitaeCurriculum vitae
Age 34Age 34
Education Hanover primary school, Islington Green secondary school, City and Islington sixth form – all north London; University of NottinghamEducation Hanover primary school, Islington Green secondary school, City and Islington sixth form – all north London; University of Nottingham
Career 2001 runner, Endemol 2002 development researcher for BBC in-house Format Factory 2003 producer, Endemol, 2006 head of development, Monkey Kingdom 2007 executive editor, BBC3 2009 commissioning editor, BBC1Career 2001 runner, Endemol 2002 development researcher for BBC in-house Format Factory 2003 producer, Endemol, 2006 head of development, Monkey Kingdom 2007 executive editor, BBC3 2009 commissioning editor, BBC1
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