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| German defence minister: countries must learn that fighting is not enough | German defence minister: countries must learn that fighting is not enough |
| (4 months later) | |
| Thomas de Maizière is obviously a serious-minded man, and there is no hint of irony when he says he regards the UK as a good ally, and his British counterpart, Philip Hammond, as a close friend. | Thomas de Maizière is obviously a serious-minded man, and there is no hint of irony when he says he regards the UK as a good ally, and his British counterpart, Philip Hammond, as a close friend. |
| But the German defence minister, who has been in post for two years, is obviously the sort of intimate who believes directness and honesty are important, and straight talking is better than shilly-shallying. | But the German defence minister, who has been in post for two years, is obviously the sort of intimate who believes directness and honesty are important, and straight talking is better than shilly-shallying. |
| Especially where the military is involved. So during an interview at his office in Berlin, de Maizière is forthright about the dangers of Britain leaving the EU, and he expresses irritation at the countries who believe German money can solve all of Europe's banking and defence problems. In public at least, he resists the temptation to highlight the incongruity of Britain, France and the US imploring Germany to do more, and spend more, on military operations. | Especially where the military is involved. So during an interview at his office in Berlin, de Maizière is forthright about the dangers of Britain leaving the EU, and he expresses irritation at the countries who believe German money can solve all of Europe's banking and defence problems. In public at least, he resists the temptation to highlight the incongruity of Britain, France and the US imploring Germany to do more, and spend more, on military operations. |
| Instead, de Maizière wants to talk about why concern over America's "pivot" to Asia is overplayed, and why it would be short-sighted to think there won't be important defence and security implications for Europe and Nato if the UK goes its own way. | Instead, de Maizière wants to talk about why concern over America's "pivot" to Asia is overplayed, and why it would be short-sighted to think there won't be important defence and security implications for Europe and Nato if the UK goes its own way. |
| He has also been thinking about the lessons from Afghanistan, which should inform how the international community deals with conflicts in Syria, Mali and Somalia. | He has also been thinking about the lessons from Afghanistan, which should inform how the international community deals with conflicts in Syria, Mali and Somalia. |
| And he obviously wishes other nations, though he is reluctant to name them, would pay more attention to Germany's pragmatic solutions to problems. If they had, he says, the conflict in Afghanistan might have turned out differently. | And he obviously wishes other nations, though he is reluctant to name them, would pay more attention to Germany's pragmatic solutions to problems. If they had, he says, the conflict in Afghanistan might have turned out differently. |
| "When we started the mission in Afghanistan, we started the discussion about the comprehensive approach. We were among the first to talk about [counter-insurgency]. Yes, we have to fight, yes we have to be strong, but at the same time we have to develop the country. You have to be sensitive about religious issues. You need good governance and to fight against corruption, and to help ordinary people and build schools. | "When we started the mission in Afghanistan, we started the discussion about the comprehensive approach. We were among the first to talk about [counter-insurgency]. Yes, we have to fight, yes we have to be strong, but at the same time we have to develop the country. You have to be sensitive about religious issues. You need good governance and to fight against corruption, and to help ordinary people and build schools. |
| "When we started this discussion, some years ago, we heard a lot of [remarks] … 'typical German, they think our mission should rather be medical services'. We learned that clear is nothing without hold. And clear and hold is nothing without build. And all of a sudden this comprehensive approach was the result of the 2010 Lisbon summit. So these were very important lessons from Afghanistan." | "When we started this discussion, some years ago, we heard a lot of [remarks] … 'typical German, they think our mission should rather be medical services'. We learned that clear is nothing without hold. And clear and hold is nothing without build. And all of a sudden this comprehensive approach was the result of the 2010 Lisbon summit. So these were very important lessons from Afghanistan." |
| De Maizière admitted Germany had been tentative about military operations since the country was unified. He defended Berlin's reluctance to put combat troops on the ground over the last 20 years, and its refusal to join the military effort to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi. Germany, he said, would deploy fighters only when it thought it was necessary, and not to join a bandwagon. | De Maizière admitted Germany had been tentative about military operations since the country was unified. He defended Berlin's reluctance to put combat troops on the ground over the last 20 years, and its refusal to join the military effort to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi. Germany, he said, would deploy fighters only when it thought it was necessary, and not to join a bandwagon. |
| "In Afghanistan, German soldiers had to fight for the first time because of necessity. Some of our partners thought we were 'cake-eaters', and not up to the task. They didn't say it publicly, but they were sceptical. But the German armed forces proved to be able to fight. Germany had to learn that fighting is important. Other countries had to learn that fighting is not enough." De Maizière quoted the 18th-century philosopher Carl von Clausewitz, who said: "War is the continuation of politics by other means." | "In Afghanistan, German soldiers had to fight for the first time because of necessity. Some of our partners thought we were 'cake-eaters', and not up to the task. They didn't say it publicly, but they were sceptical. But the German armed forces proved to be able to fight. Germany had to learn that fighting is important. Other countries had to learn that fighting is not enough." De Maizière quoted the 18th-century philosopher Carl von Clausewitz, who said: "War is the continuation of politics by other means." |
| "You need political strategies before, during and after any military activity. You could have the bravest soldiers, but conflicts cannot be only solved by the military." | "You need political strategies before, during and after any military activity. You could have the bravest soldiers, but conflicts cannot be only solved by the military." |
| Which may help to explain why Germany is ignoring calls for it to spend more on defence in the wake of America's decision to make Asia, not Europe, its strategic priority. | Which may help to explain why Germany is ignoring calls for it to spend more on defence in the wake of America's decision to make Asia, not Europe, its strategic priority. |
| De Maizière seems convinced Washington's rhetoric belies its need to keep a firm, if expensive, foothold in Europe. | De Maizière seems convinced Washington's rhetoric belies its need to keep a firm, if expensive, foothold in Europe. |
| "What America is doing is not a surprise or a threat or a matter of concern. Why is the US pivoting? There are more problems in Asia than in Europe. It is in the interests of the US to have a strong commitment in Europe. It is halfway to the Middle East. Europe is closer to the Middle East, and Afghanistan and Pakistan, than the US. We are the only region in the world where you have these institutional networks. There is nothing like Nato in Asia." | "What America is doing is not a surprise or a threat or a matter of concern. Why is the US pivoting? There are more problems in Asia than in Europe. It is in the interests of the US to have a strong commitment in Europe. It is halfway to the Middle East. Europe is closer to the Middle East, and Afghanistan and Pakistan, than the US. We are the only region in the world where you have these institutional networks. There is nothing like Nato in Asia." |
| De Maizière said Germany, the UK and France already paid half of Europe's contribution to Nato, and Berlin was the only one of the big three not to have slashed its defence budget in recent years. | De Maizière said Germany, the UK and France already paid half of Europe's contribution to Nato, and Berlin was the only one of the big three not to have slashed its defence budget in recent years. |
| So de Maizière won't be lectured by those nations who see defence as a soft touch when it comes to cuts. | So de Maizière won't be lectured by those nations who see defence as a soft touch when it comes to cuts. |
| "I understand US taxpayers are interested in fair burden sharing. The question is about European burden sharing. For the last five years the German defence budget has been quite stable. Nearly no reduction, and in the future it will remain stable. This is nearly unique in Europe. Of the bigger countries only Poland is in a similar position. I see reductions in Great Britain and France. I am not criticising that. There are good reasons for that. But if we keep the line, and they don't, I would like to learn the [reasons why] you hear sometimes we should have more commitments than they themselves. It is very easy to count money, but as we learned [in Afghanistan], the important thing is capability." | "I understand US taxpayers are interested in fair burden sharing. The question is about European burden sharing. For the last five years the German defence budget has been quite stable. Nearly no reduction, and in the future it will remain stable. This is nearly unique in Europe. Of the bigger countries only Poland is in a similar position. I see reductions in Great Britain and France. I am not criticising that. There are good reasons for that. But if we keep the line, and they don't, I would like to learn the [reasons why] you hear sometimes we should have more commitments than they themselves. It is very easy to count money, but as we learned [in Afghanistan], the important thing is capability." |
| His more immediate concern is persuading the UK that leaving the EU would not be in its own security interests. | His more immediate concern is persuading the UK that leaving the EU would not be in its own security interests. |
| He believes it would weaken British influence around the world, weaken Nato, and encourage France to push for the EU to have its own military capability. | He believes it would weaken British influence around the world, weaken Nato, and encourage France to push for the EU to have its own military capability. |
| None of which, he argues, would be good for the UK. "France is not in favour of a stronger role for Nato. The UK is just the opposite. In defence, the German role is to make France more Nato-minded, and to make Great Britain more European-minded. I have made it quite clear. My first priority in defence is Nato. In all other political aspects, economy and currency, my first priority is the EU." | None of which, he argues, would be good for the UK. "France is not in favour of a stronger role for Nato. The UK is just the opposite. In defence, the German role is to make France more Nato-minded, and to make Great Britain more European-minded. I have made it quite clear. My first priority in defence is Nato. In all other political aspects, economy and currency, my first priority is the EU." |
| Although he does not say so explicitly, de Maizière suggests Germany needs Britain to thwart French ambitions – a task that would be more difficult if the UK withdraws from EU, or sulks on the sidelines. | Although he does not say so explicitly, de Maizière suggests Germany needs Britain to thwart French ambitions – a task that would be more difficult if the UK withdraws from EU, or sulks on the sidelines. |
| "I would like to have Great Britain within the EU for many reasons, but one very important reason is its influence within the European Union. We should not double the European Union as a European Nato. It would not be wise to weaken the European wing of Nato, which would make the US feel insecure, and then have a really strong European security institution. For security issues, for the interests of Great Britain within the EU, and because of German interests, it is really important that Britain stays and plays a strong role." Germany, he says, does not want an EU army. | "I would like to have Great Britain within the EU for many reasons, but one very important reason is its influence within the European Union. We should not double the European Union as a European Nato. It would not be wise to weaken the European wing of Nato, which would make the US feel insecure, and then have a really strong European security institution. For security issues, for the interests of Great Britain within the EU, and because of German interests, it is really important that Britain stays and plays a strong role." Germany, he says, does not want an EU army. |
| "There is a famous German saying which means 'it is better to stick with what you have'. The moment you start to talk about a common European army then some countries will not let that happen. Great Britain is one of them. So then you jeopardise the co-operation that you have. This is not a wise strategy." | "There is a famous German saying which means 'it is better to stick with what you have'. The moment you start to talk about a common European army then some countries will not let that happen. Great Britain is one of them. So then you jeopardise the co-operation that you have. This is not a wise strategy." |
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