The struggle over the fate of Argentine defender Gabriel Heinze is the latest episode in the long tradition of hostility between Liverpool and Manchester United. But does this rivalry go beyond football?
The struggle over the fate of Argentine defender Gabriel Heinze is the latest episode in the long tradition of hostility between Liverpool and Manchester United. But does this rivalry go beyond football?
Liverpool and Manchester both used to be mere parts of Lancashire. Now Lancashire is something you might just about see when you drive between them.
Liverpool and Manchester both used to be mere parts of Lancashire. Now Lancashire is something you might just about see when you drive between them.
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, these two cities have duked it out for economic supremacy.
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, these two cities have duked it out for economic supremacy.
Manchester made the earlier running, dominating the textile industry, while Liverpool's position as the world's pre-eminent port, gateway to North America and a key nexus in the slaves and sugar trade triangle, helped it fight back.
Manchester made the earlier running, dominating the textile industry, while Liverpool's position as the world's pre-eminent port, gateway to North America and a key nexus in the slaves and sugar trade triangle, helped it fight back.
The Liverpool gentleman and the Manchester man Old-style mockery
It is often suggested that Liverpool looked down its nose at Manchester, feeling itself to be grounded in the loftier areas of insurance, finance and shipping, while its opposite number at the end of the East Lancs Road made its money from the altogether grubbier business of cotton mills.
It is often suggested that Liverpool looked down its nose at Manchester, feeling itself to be grounded in the loftier areas of insurance, finance and shipping, while its opposite number at the end of the East Lancs Road made its money from the altogether grubbier business of cotton mills.
The Liverpool gentleman and the Manchester man Old-style mockery
There was a saying "the Liverpool gentleman and the Manchester man".
There was a saying "the Liverpool gentleman and the Manchester man".
But whatever the mythology, the tables have been turned in recent years. Manchester has adapted more confidently and more completely to the post-manufacturing, post-heavy industry British economy.
But whatever the mythology, the tables have been turned in recent years. Manchester has adapted more confidently and more completely to the post-manufacturing, post-heavy industry British economy.
Different outlooks
Different outlooks
Its city centre has been redeveloped, warehouses converted into offices and loft apartments, quaysides transformed into cultural centres.
Its city centre has been redeveloped, warehouses converted into offices and loft apartments, quaysides transformed into cultural centres.
Sir Bob Scott, mastermind of Manchester's Commonwealth and Olympic games bids, as well as Liverpool's Capital of Culture, and lauded in both cities, says this has led to a difference in outlook, with Manchester thinking nationally and Liverpool thinking regionally.
Sir Bob Scott, mastermind of Manchester's Commonwealth and Olympic games bids, as well as Liverpool's Capital of Culture, and lauded in both cities, says this has led to a difference in outlook, with Manchester thinking nationally and Liverpool thinking regionally.
You could be worse, you could be Scouse, eating rats in their council house New-style mockery
You could be worse, you could be Scouse, eating rats in their council house New-style mockery
"My overwhelming sense was that Manchester was looking to London and Liverpool was looking at Manchester. But [as a port] Liverpool looks out on the world, Liverpool is [historically] almost more conscious of New York."
"My overwhelming sense was that Manchester was looking to London and Liverpool was looking at Manchester. But [as a port] Liverpool looks out on the world, Liverpool is [historically] almost more conscious of New York."
You might think economic differences wouldn't filter down to popular culture. But respective economic status provides some of the animus in the terrace insults. United fans like to sing an offensive ditty to their Korean star Park Ji-Sung which concludes "you could be worse, you could be Scouse, eating rats in their council house".
You might think economic differences wouldn't filter down to popular culture. But respective economic status provides some of the animus in the terrace insults. United fans like to sing an offensive ditty to their Korean star Park Ji-Sung which concludes "you could be worse, you could be Scouse, eating rats in their council house".
Similar accents
Similar accents
Mancunians are happy to mock their Liverpudlian cousins in stereotypical terms. And Liverpudlians regard Manchester as the more dangerous city to live in, associating it with guns and gang violence.
Mancunians are happy to mock their Liverpudlian cousins in stereotypical terms. And Liverpudlians regard Manchester as the more dangerous city to live in, associating it with guns and gang violence.
And yet one might assume that Manchester and Liverpool would find common ground in being cities that have coped with periods of decline and unemployment. Both have areas - Toxteth and Moss Side come to mind - that are national bywords for deprivation.
And yet one might assume that Manchester and Liverpool would find common ground in being cities that have coped with periods of decline and unemployment. Both have areas - Toxteth and Moss Side come to mind - that are national bywords for deprivation.
Manchester has the edge economically
Greater Manchester has the edge economically
To many people from the south, those with mild Liverpool and Manchester accents sound similar. They share similarities in vocabulary. The term "scally", where much of the rest of the country opts for "chav", is just one of many words they share.
To many people from the south, those with mild Liverpool and Manchester accents sound similar. They share similarities in vocabulary. The term "scally", where much of the rest of the country opts for "chav", is just one of many words they share.
Liverpool has perhaps the greater sense of isolation and distinctness from the rest of the country. It is much joked that some Liverpudlians think civilisation ends at the Runcorn bridge, but the city really does look as much to the sea as it does back across the land.
Liverpool has perhaps the greater sense of isolation and distinctness from the rest of the country. It is much joked that some Liverpudlians think civilisation ends at the Runcorn bridge, but the city really does look as much to the sea as it does back across the land.
When Sir Bob arrived in Manchester in the late 1960s he noticed a city already starting to arrest the decline.
When Sir Bob arrived in Manchester in the late 1960s he noticed a city already starting to arrest the decline.
"One was very aware of a city coming back up on the back of sport and the arts. In Liverpool when I went in 2000 one was aware of exactly the same thing, going through the same experience but just much later."
"One was very aware of a city coming back up on the back of sport and the arts. In Liverpool when I went in 2000 one was aware of exactly the same thing, going through the same experience but just much later."
Superior architecture
Superior architecture
There are some who feel Liverpool has to strive to be like Manchester, to compete, because the alternative is doom. Manchester always seems a little surer of its place in the country.
There are some who feel Liverpool has to strive to be like Manchester, to compete, because the alternative is doom. Manchester always seems a little surer of its place in the country.
"Liverpool has to find a new life otherwise it will simply be a derelict port," Sir Bob adds. It has the superior architecture and the current buzz, but is still a long way from catching up.
"Liverpool has to find a new life otherwise it will simply be a derelict port," Sir Bob adds. It has the superior architecture and the current buzz, but is still a long way from catching up.
But Liverpudlians boast of the best architecture
But Liverpudlians boast of the best architecture
It would take a particularly blinkered, rose-spectacled Liverpudlian not to admit that, despite Liverpool's furious last decade of redevelopment, their regional rivals have the drop on them economically.
It would take a particularly blinkered, rose-spectacled Liverpudlian not to admit that, despite Liverpool's furious last decade of redevelopment, their regional rivals have the drop on them economically.
One measure would be demand for office space. According to commercial agents DTZ, office space in Manchester typically rents for £28.50 per square foot per annum compared with about £21 in Liverpool. Manchester's 19 million square foot of office space compares with Liverpool's 3-4 million.
One measure would be demand for office space. According to commercial agents DTZ, office space in Manchester typically rents for £28.50 per square foot per annum compared with about £21 in Liverpool. Manchester's 19 million square foot of office space compares with Liverpool's 3-4 million.
Mike Taylor, Oldham-born chief executive of BusinessLiverpool, traces rivalry back to the days of the Manchester Ship Canal and its bypassing of Liverpool.
Mike Taylor, Oldham-born chief executive of BusinessLiverpool, traces rivalry back to the days of the Manchester Ship Canal and its bypassing of Liverpool.
"It was Manchester's response to the fact Liverpool was a world class port. The idea was to take some of that trade directly into Manchester. It's the nature of human beings when there are two large powerful forces in a region there is bound to be some competition."
"It was Manchester's response to the fact Liverpool was a world class port. The idea was to take some of that trade directly into Manchester. It's the nature of human beings when there are two large powerful forces in a region there is bound to be some competition."
But Angie Robinson, chief executive of Manchester Chamber of Commerce, says notions of competition, in the mind of ordinary people or of business leaders, is false.
But Angie Robinson, chief executive of Manchester Chamber of Commerce, says notions of competition, in the mind of ordinary people or of business leaders, is false.
As a port Liverpool looks abroad
As a port Liverpool looks abroad
"This rivalry is a bit of a myth, particularly from the business community's point of view - they work across the whole of the North West. The important thing is that both cities are the economic powerhouses of the region, important in their own right."
"This rivalry is a bit of a myth, particularly from the business community's point of view - they work across the whole of the North West. The important thing is that both cities are the economic powerhouses of the region, important in their own right."
Manchester has luxury, like the Lowry Hotel, which Liverpool is striving for. It's a contrast from the 19th Century when Liverpool boasted the grander buildings. The stunning stock of Georgian and Victorian buildings that are retained make Liverpool the more popular location for shooting films, but Manchester is the media powerhouse soon to boast a new media village and the historic base of Granada.
Greater Manchester has luxury, like the Lowry Hotel, which Liverpool is striving for. It's a contrast from the 19th Century when Liverpool boasted the grander buildings. The stunning stock of Georgian and Victorian buildings that are retained make Liverpool the more popular location for shooting films, but Manchester is the media powerhouse soon to boast a new media village and the historic base of Granada.
On the music front can be found the keenest rivalry outside football. Liverpool, as you are unlikely to be allowed to forget, had the Beatles, while Manchester boasted Joy Division, New Order, the Smiths, the Stone Roses and Oasis. Now Liverpool has a new wave of bands led by the Zutons, the Coral and the Dead 60s. But Manchester's greatest musical cheerleader, the sadly departed Tony Wilson, had a lot of time for Liverpool. The rivalry is the stuff of heated pub conversations, but hardly summons vitriol.
On the music front can be found the keenest rivalry outside football. Liverpool, as you are unlikely to be allowed to forget, had the Beatles, while Manchester boasted Joy Division, New Order, the Smiths, the Stone Roses and Oasis. Now Liverpool has a new wave of bands led by the Zutons, the Coral and the Dead 60s. But Manchester's greatest musical cheerleader, the sadly departed Tony Wilson, had a lot of time for Liverpool. The rivalry is the stuff of heated pub conversations, but hardly summons vitriol.
That vitriol is found in football alone. Go outside it, and the historic rivalry is merely that, old battles over commerce and a little economic envy.
That vitriol is found in football alone. Go outside it, and the historic rivalry is merely that, old battles over commerce and a little economic envy.
