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With John Cale in Paris and Along the Borderline A Rock Pioneer in Paris And Along the Borderline
(about 4 hours later)
Musicians often lead eventful lives with changes of direction that reflect their shifting interests and their responses to the musical landscape. But few have covered as much of the waterfront as John Cale, the Welsh rocker who is playing three shows at the Brooklyn Academy of Music this week. Musicians often lead eventful lives with changes of direction that reflect their shifting interests and their responses to the musical landscape. But few have covered as much of the waterfront as John Cale, the Welsh rocker who performs three shows at the Brooklyn Academy of Music this week.
Mr. Cale studied viola and classical composition at the University of London in the early 1960s, was invited by Aaron Copland to study at Tanglewood in 1963, and worked with the free-spirited composers John Cage and LaMonte Young in New York — all before forming the Velvet Underground with Lou Reed in 1965. Mr. Cale studied viola and classical composition at the University of London in the early 1960s, was invited by Aaron Copland to study at Tanglewood in 1963, and worked with the free-spirited composers John Cage and La Monte Young in New York — all before forming the Velvet Underground with Lou Reed in 1965.
The Velvet Underground became, in effect, Andy Warhol’s house band and built a durable following with its drone experiments and strange tunings, along with Mr. Reed’s gritty lyrics. Mr. Cale left the band in 1968 and went on to create an unpredictably eclectic discography, with albums devoted to tongue-in-cheek classicism, film scores and experimental electronica, as well as hard-driven (but invariably lyrical) rock.The Velvet Underground became, in effect, Andy Warhol’s house band and built a durable following with its drone experiments and strange tunings, along with Mr. Reed’s gritty lyrics. Mr. Cale left the band in 1968 and went on to create an unpredictably eclectic discography, with albums devoted to tongue-in-cheek classicism, film scores and experimental electronica, as well as hard-driven (but invariably lyrical) rock.
He is presiding over two programs at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. “Life Along the Borderline,” on Wednesday, is a tribute to Nico, the German singer who worked briefly with the Velvet Underground (and made solo albums produced by Mr. Cale). On Friday and Saturday Mr. Cale and his band, supported by the Wordless Music Orchestra, will offer a full traversal of “Paris 1919,” his highly regarded 1973 album, as well as selections from his other discs, including his latest, “Shifty Adventures in Nookie Wood” (Double Six). He is presiding over two programs at the academy. “Life Along the Borderline,” on Wednesday, is a tribute to Nico, the German singer who worked briefly with the Velvet Underground. On Friday and Saturday Mr. Cale and his band, supported by the Wordless Music Orchestra, will offer a full traversal of “Paris 1919,” his highly regarded 1973 album, as well as selections from his other discs, including his latest, “Shifty Adventures in Nookie Wood” (Double Six).
Now 70 and sporting white hair with pink highlights, Mr. Cale spoke about his music at the academy one afternoon recently. These are excerpts from the conversation: Now 70 and sporting white hair with pink highlights, Mr. Cale spoke about his music at the academy recently. These are excerpts from the conversation:
Q. You began performing your Nico tribute as a way of commemorating her 70th birthday in 2008, and you’ve done it in London, Rome and other places. Is the Brooklyn Academy of Music version essentially the same show? Q. You began performing your Nico tribute as a way of commemorating her 70th birthday in 2008, and you’ve done it in London, Rome and other places. Is the academy’s version essentially the same show?
A. No, that’s the good thing — I couldn’t handle doing the same one every time. When I did the first one all these young female artists came out of the woodwork, wanting to sing “All Tomorrow’s Parties,” and all that. And they were interested in it for the right reasons. They wanted to sing Nico’s songs. I was shocked. And it kept going.A. No, that’s the good thing — I couldn’t handle doing the same one every time. When I did the first one all these young female artists came out of the woodwork, wanting to sing “All Tomorrow’s Parties,” and all that. And they were interested in it for the right reasons. They wanted to sing Nico’s songs. I was shocked. And it kept going.
Q. Why do you feel people are so fascinated with Nico now?Q. Why do you feel people are so fascinated with Nico now?
A. She’s kind of a female icon, of someone who went through a period — and not just a period either — of fear and loathing and self-assailment. You know, growing up in Germany and running away from the war, and being such a statuesque and mesmerizing beauty as a fashion person. Then she comes to New York and goes up to Woodstock and tries to fit in there with Bob Dylan. She meets Andy Warhol, who puts her in the band, and all of a sudden she’s singing, when she’d never sung in her life, and she’s deaf in one ear. She meets Jim Morrison and decides that the French image of poetry and the artist is what she wants to pursue. Jim was doing that as well. And she bought a harmonium, and everyone was wondering what that would lead to. A. She’s kind of a female icon, of someone who went through a period — and not just a period, either — of fear and loathing and self-assailment. You know, growing up in Germany and running away from the war, and being such a statuesque and mesmerizing beauty as a fashion person. Then she comes to New York and goes up to Woodstock and tries to fit in there with Bob Dylan. She meets Andy Warhol, who puts her in the band, and all of a sudden she’s singing, when she’d never sung in her life, and she’s deaf in one ear. She meets Jim Morrison and decides that the French image of poetry and the artist is what she wants to pursue. Jim was doing that as well. And she bought a harmonium, and everyone was wondering what that would lead to.
Q. She had no musical background before she joined the Velvet Underground? As a singer she did have that Marlene Dietrich-like not-quite-in-tune quality.Q. She had no musical background before she joined the Velvet Underground? As a singer she did have that Marlene Dietrich-like not-quite-in-tune quality.
A. Marlene Dietrich was better at selling herself than Nico was. But being part of the band helped her because we eventually let her improvise on certain songs — open-ended songs like “It Was a Pleasure Then” — and suddenly she decided, “I want to do it myself.” She forced her own way. She was writing in a language that was foreign to her and saying, “I’m going to do this.” That’s really what people admired, in spite of the difficulty of actually getting to terms with the artistry and all that. A. Marlene Dietrich was better at selling herself than Nico was. But being part of the band helped her because we eventually let her improvise on certain songs — open-ended songs like “It Was a Pleasure Then” — and suddenly she decided, “I want to do it myself.” She forced her own way. She was writing in a language that was foreign to her and saying, “I’m going to do this.” That’s really what people admired, in spite of the difficulty of getting to terms with the artistry and all that.
Q. Since we’re talking about the enduring appeal of Nico, I guess we could explore the same question about the Velvet Underground. It was hardly a commercial success at the time, yet today you hear college students talking about the Velvet Underground as if it were the most important band of the 1960s.Q. Since we’re talking about the enduring appeal of Nico, I guess we could explore the same question about the Velvet Underground. It was hardly a commercial success at the time, yet today you hear college students talking about the Velvet Underground as if it were the most important band of the 1960s.
A. I can honestly say I don’t understand it. I know that we didn’t sell a million records, so how do you put that together? I think maybe it’s the unknown, the idea of uncovering something that nobody else has noticed. It’s the research bug in everybody.A. I can honestly say I don’t understand it. I know that we didn’t sell a million records, so how do you put that together? I think maybe it’s the unknown, the idea of uncovering something that nobody else has noticed. It’s the research bug in everybody.
Q. You were very intent on making it an experimental band, of using what you learned in the avant-garde world in a rock context. Q. You were intent on making it an experimental band, of using what you learned in the avant-garde world in a rock context.
A. Yeah. I’d been working with LaMonte Young for a year and a half, and that circle was getting smaller and smaller, and I ended up running into Lou. I wanted the band to do the background — to put the tapestry together, with the drone and everything, and then Lou would improvise. Because that was Lou’s strength. He was a poet, no doubt, and he wrote some very specific and beautiful songs. But we weren’t very good at explaining ourselves, and we worked very hard at making it almost impossible for people to figure out what we were doing onstage. A. Yeah. I’d been working with La Monte Young for a year and a half, and that circle was getting smaller and smaller, and I ended up running into Lou. I wanted the band to do the background — to put the tapestry together, with the drone and everything, and then Lou would improvise. Because that was Lou’s strength. He was a poet, no doubt, and he wrote some very specific and beautiful songs. But we weren’t very good at explaining ourselves, and we worked very hard at making it almost impossible for people to figure out what we were doing onstage.
Q. Today there’s a school of young composers who work in a style, often called indie or alt-classical, that draws on both rock and classical influences, as you’ve done since the 1960s. When you hear young composers doing this now do you think, “I’ve been doing this all along”? Q. Today there’s a school of young composers who work in a style that draws on both rock and classical influences, as you’ve done since the 1960s. When you hear young composers doing this now do you think, “I’ve been doing this all along”?
A. The people doing it nowadays? They’re doing it better. For one thing they sound better because the quality of recording is so much better. And I think you can tell that they’re trying to avoid the mistakes — and repeat the mistakes — that we made. They’re trying to avoid being so difficult to understand, but at the same time maintain a really hard edge. But they’re coming up with some really interesting ideas.A. The people doing it nowadays? They’re doing it better. For one thing they sound better because the quality of recording is so much better. And I think you can tell that they’re trying to avoid the mistakes — and repeat the mistakes — that we made. They’re trying to avoid being so difficult to understand, but at the same time maintain a really hard edge. But they’re coming up with some really interesting ideas.
Q. Of all your albums, why are you revisiting “Paris 1919”?Q. Of all your albums, why are you revisiting “Paris 1919”?
A. It happens to be the one album where I finished all the songs before I went in to record. They’re more complete — the variety of songs and the topics. I wrote them when I had just moved to Warner to work in A&R. I took an office job and I was there every day, and I was writing these songs. After a while I realized, “This is nostalgia, pure and simple: I’m writing about the stuff that I miss about Europe.” I wasn’t writing to the album’s title; I gave it the title afterward, and what it meant was: Here we are in the height of the cold war; how did we get here? This album seems to be about how we got there, looking back to the Versailles Treaty [signed in France in 1919]. A. It happens to be the one album where I finished all the songs before I went in to record. I wrote them when I had just moved to Warner to work in A&R. I took an office job and I was there every day, and I was writing these songs. After a while I realized, “This is nostalgia, pure and simple: I’m writing about the stuff that I miss about Europe.” I wasn’t writing to the album’s title; I gave it the title afterward, and what it meant was: “Here we are in the height of the cold war; how did we get here?” This album seems to be about how we got there, looking back to the Versailles Treaty [signed in France in 1919].