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| Protestants, puritans and gender parity | Protestants, puritans and gender parity |
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| Two crucial points appear to be missing in all the gloom and doom surrounding the result of the vote on women bishops (Letters, 22 November). First, the traditional way of making decisions in the church has never been by the democratic path of majority voting, but rather by consensus. The synod's requirement of a two-thirds majority in this case is a gesture in this direction, but on such a crucial issue insufficient. The church's role is first and foremost to witness to Christ, demanding, as far as possible, a united voice. Working for consensus is a slow and frustrating process, but avoids the disastrous schisms that have bedevilled the history of Christianity. Impatience is a poor motive for change. Two provinces of the Anglican communion in England cannot represent the whole church of Christ. | Two crucial points appear to be missing in all the gloom and doom surrounding the result of the vote on women bishops (Letters, 22 November). First, the traditional way of making decisions in the church has never been by the democratic path of majority voting, but rather by consensus. The synod's requirement of a two-thirds majority in this case is a gesture in this direction, but on such a crucial issue insufficient. The church's role is first and foremost to witness to Christ, demanding, as far as possible, a united voice. Working for consensus is a slow and frustrating process, but avoids the disastrous schisms that have bedevilled the history of Christianity. Impatience is a poor motive for change. Two provinces of the Anglican communion in England cannot represent the whole church of Christ. |
| Secondly, the message of Christianity to the world is one of hope, joy and peace. Surely, patiently getting it right should be part of that message. Rev Canon Richard Price Keighley, West Yorkshire | Secondly, the message of Christianity to the world is one of hope, joy and peace. Surely, patiently getting it right should be part of that message. Rev Canon Richard Price Keighley, West Yorkshire |
| • What a shame Zoe Williams (Onward Christian feminists – but on to where?, 24 November) omitted to mention the United Reformed Church. A reformed tradition church, whose formation in 1972 by the union of the Congregational and Presbyterian churches in England came from the movement towards church unity, it has had women ministers since the 1930s. One of them, Elsie Chamberlain, became the head of religious broadcasting for the BBC, and other women ministers have been invaluable contributors and witnesses to faith. Michael Tulloch London | • What a shame Zoe Williams (Onward Christian feminists – but on to where?, 24 November) omitted to mention the United Reformed Church. A reformed tradition church, whose formation in 1972 by the union of the Congregational and Presbyterian churches in England came from the movement towards church unity, it has had women ministers since the 1930s. One of them, Elsie Chamberlain, became the head of religious broadcasting for the BBC, and other women ministers have been invaluable contributors and witnesses to faith. Michael Tulloch London |
| • I think Zoe Williams is less than generous in her comments on the British Baptists. Baptists in England and Wales have been ordaining women ministers since the 1920s. We have had a lay woman president and two ordained women presidents, an ordained woman deputy general secretary and an ordained woman college principal training other ordinands. We are far from perfect in these matters, but along with the United Reformed Church we have been modestly leading a path that the Church of England must ultimately follow. Keith G Jones Rector, International Baptist Theological Seminary, Prague, Czech Republic | • I think Zoe Williams is less than generous in her comments on the British Baptists. Baptists in England and Wales have been ordaining women ministers since the 1920s. We have had a lay woman president and two ordained women presidents, an ordained woman deputy general secretary and an ordained woman college principal training other ordinands. We are far from perfect in these matters, but along with the United Reformed Church we have been modestly leading a path that the Church of England must ultimately follow. Keith G Jones Rector, International Baptist Theological Seminary, Prague, Czech Republic |
| • How interesting that it is only now, in the context of (no) women bishops, that "some MPs … have called on parliament to force the church to act by removing its exemption from equalities legislation" (Report, 24 November). Presumably these are the same MPs who supported the exemption in the first place and have shown no concern that state-funded religious schools can discriminate in admission procedures, sack administrative staff who are the "wrong" religion, choose teaching staff because of their beliefs rather than their teaching ability and opt out of teaching about homosexuality, abortion and contraception etc. | • How interesting that it is only now, in the context of (no) women bishops, that "some MPs … have called on parliament to force the church to act by removing its exemption from equalities legislation" (Report, 24 November). Presumably these are the same MPs who supported the exemption in the first place and have shown no concern that state-funded religious schools can discriminate in admission procedures, sack administrative staff who are the "wrong" religion, choose teaching staff because of their beliefs rather than their teaching ability and opt out of teaching about homosexuality, abortion and contraception etc. |
| However, like many other atheists/secularists/humanists, I would welcome a move in parliament to get rid of this highly discriminatory exemption – even if it is the right deed for the wrong reason. Diane Munday St Albans, Hertfordshire | However, like many other atheists/secularists/humanists, I would welcome a move in parliament to get rid of this highly discriminatory exemption – even if it is the right deed for the wrong reason. Diane Munday St Albans, Hertfordshire |
| • In attacking puritans in the C of E, Giles Fraser (Loose canon, 24 November) is also attacking Protestant nonconformists like me who have our spiritual roots in 17th-century puritanism and see it as not a wholly bad thing. If nothing else it tamed the monarchy and in time the Church of England itself, which was forced to tolerate other expressions of Christianity. But he is right in saying that until they are expelled, like most of the puritans in the great ejection of 1662 (350 years ago this year), there will always be a strand of puritanism in the C of E. How can there not be, considering its roots in the Reformation? | • In attacking puritans in the C of E, Giles Fraser (Loose canon, 24 November) is also attacking Protestant nonconformists like me who have our spiritual roots in 17th-century puritanism and see it as not a wholly bad thing. If nothing else it tamed the monarchy and in time the Church of England itself, which was forced to tolerate other expressions of Christianity. But he is right in saying that until they are expelled, like most of the puritans in the great ejection of 1662 (350 years ago this year), there will always be a strand of puritanism in the C of E. How can there not be, considering its roots in the Reformation? |
| What he and other liberals need to do is to work out some compromise that respects the conscientious scruples of those who on theological grounds cannot accept women bishops, or priests for that matter. That is not a wholly outlandish position as all Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, most Baptists and independent evangelicals as well as other theologically conservative Protestants – and, outside Christianity, Muslims, orthodox Jews and others – have all-male "clergy". Kenneth Brownell London | What he and other liberals need to do is to work out some compromise that respects the conscientious scruples of those who on theological grounds cannot accept women bishops, or priests for that matter. That is not a wholly outlandish position as all Roman Catholics, the Orthodox, most Baptists and independent evangelicals as well as other theologically conservative Protestants – and, outside Christianity, Muslims, orthodox Jews and others – have all-male "clergy". Kenneth Brownell London |
| • Maria Miller, the culture secretary, is unhappy about the church's elective system and asks "are they really happy that it is reflective of the views of their membership" (Pressure on church to vote again, 24 November). She continues: "I think it's extraordinary that the church seems to have ended up in a situation where a vote that was taken doesn't seem to be reflective of the overwhelming view of the members of the church." I often get the same feeling after a general election. John Snow Worcester | • Maria Miller, the culture secretary, is unhappy about the church's elective system and asks "are they really happy that it is reflective of the views of their membership" (Pressure on church to vote again, 24 November). She continues: "I think it's extraordinary that the church seems to have ended up in a situation where a vote that was taken doesn't seem to be reflective of the overwhelming view of the members of the church." I often get the same feeling after a general election. John Snow Worcester |
| • In about 1955, my mother answered the door to a vicar proffering an envelope, and told him that the day on which a woman was appointed archbishop of Canterbury would be the day on which she would be ready to start discussing the planned-giving scheme (Church in crisis as it turns its back on women bishops, 21 November). My mother was born in the year of the Russian revolution and died in 2009, having seen the end of the Soviet empire but not of Anglican misogyny. Anne Tropper Alresford, Hampshire | • In about 1955, my mother answered the door to a vicar proffering an envelope, and told him that the day on which a woman was appointed archbishop of Canterbury would be the day on which she would be ready to start discussing the planned-giving scheme (Church in crisis as it turns its back on women bishops, 21 November). My mother was born in the year of the Russian revolution and died in 2009, having seen the end of the Soviet empire but not of Anglican misogyny. Anne Tropper Alresford, Hampshire |
| • So, women can't become bishops because "Jesus chose only male disciples" (Suzanne Moore, 22 November). Quite right too. He also only chose Jews and not Christians. I am open to offers. Rabbi Guy Hall London | • So, women can't become bishops because "Jesus chose only male disciples" (Suzanne Moore, 22 November). Quite right too. He also only chose Jews and not Christians. I am open to offers. Rabbi Guy Hall London |
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