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François Hollande: look past austerity or risk falling out of love with Europe François Hollande: look past austerity or risk falling out of love with Europe
(about 1 hour later)
Mid-morning on a clear autumn day at the Elysée palace, and the wing housing the French president's gold office, the salon doré, was quiet. Downstairs, under the chandeliers, there was little to signify the urgency of the hour, save for the ticking of a clock shaped like a classical Greek urn.Mid-morning on a clear autumn day at the Elysée palace, and the wing housing the French president's gold office, the salon doré, was quiet. Downstairs, under the chandeliers, there was little to signify the urgency of the hour, save for the ticking of a clock shaped like a classical Greek urn.
Outside, the fountain was in full flow and the roses in bloom in the gardens where, this summer, President François Hollande took the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, for a stroll before sitting down on the terrace for a private discussion about Europe's future. That seems a long time ago. Hollande's honeymoon period did not last long.Outside, the fountain was in full flow and the roses in bloom in the gardens where, this summer, President François Hollande took the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, for a stroll before sitting down on the terrace for a private discussion about Europe's future. That seems a long time ago. Hollande's honeymoon period did not last long.
Up the marble staircase, past the portraits of Pompidou, Chirac and Mitterrand, the president was running late. Eventually, he bounded from his office, true to the Mr Normal label that has become one of France's most successful political branding exercises. The French press was quick to remark, when the socialist was elected, that he had a tendency to open his own gilt doorhandles at the presidential palace rather than wait for white-gloved butlers. He is still doing it.Up the marble staircase, past the portraits of Pompidou, Chirac and Mitterrand, the president was running late. Eventually, he bounded from his office, true to the Mr Normal label that has become one of France's most successful political branding exercises. The French press was quick to remark, when the socialist was elected, that he had a tendency to open his own gilt doorhandles at the presidential palace rather than wait for white-gloved butlers. He is still doing it.
The smile, brisk handshake, eye contact and "Are you well?" is a reminder of his days as a rural MP, canvassing markets, when he was known as one of the most prolific palm-pressers of his era. Calm and upbeat, he showed no sign of concern at his apparent flagging popularity.The smile, brisk handshake, eye contact and "Are you well?" is a reminder of his days as a rural MP, canvassing markets, when he was known as one of the most prolific palm-pressers of his era. Calm and upbeat, he showed no sign of concern at his apparent flagging popularity.
Adjoining his office, in the green room where Nicolas Sarkozy married Carla Bruni, Hollande settled into a lush dining chair, more elaborate than the rest around the meeting table. A miniature gold carriage clock had been placed at his table setting, but he still checked his wrist – modest shirt buttons, no cufflinks, under a sober black suit – for his slightly battered brown wristwatch, a far cry from Sarkozy's famously expensive timepieces.Adjoining his office, in the green room where Nicolas Sarkozy married Carla Bruni, Hollande settled into a lush dining chair, more elaborate than the rest around the meeting table. A miniature gold carriage clock had been placed at his table setting, but he still checked his wrist – modest shirt buttons, no cufflinks, under a sober black suit – for his slightly battered brown wristwatch, a far cry from Sarkozy's famously expensive timepieces.
Hollande has never moved into the Elysée palace, and sleeps rarely in Sarkozy's old apartments, which have not been redecorated. He still commutes from the west Paris flat he shares with his partner, Valerie Trierweiler. His Elysée office, too, has changed little since his predecessor moved out. There are pictures on the mantelpiece of Hollande and Trierweiler on election night and certainly a change in reading matter, with works on Obama, Hollande's own election win, and a book by a Socialist party MP on state spending, subtitled Waste Less to Spend Better.Hollande has never moved into the Elysée palace, and sleeps rarely in Sarkozy's old apartments, which have not been redecorated. He still commutes from the west Paris flat he shares with his partner, Valerie Trierweiler. His Elysée office, too, has changed little since his predecessor moved out. There are pictures on the mantelpiece of Hollande and Trierweiler on election night and certainly a change in reading matter, with works on Obama, Hollande's own election win, and a book by a Socialist party MP on state spending, subtitled Waste Less to Spend Better.
It is five months since Hollande won the election and proclaimed from a stage in his rural fiefdom of Tulle: "I'm sure in a lot of European countries there is relief, hope that at last austerity is not an inevitability any more." He said then that his mission was to demand measures for "growth, jobs and prosperity" from European leaders. That mission is ever more pressing now because, back at home, things are already looking tough for the new president. In France, growth is almost nonexistent, unemployment has topped 3 million, and the 2013 French budget is the harshest in 30 years in order to bring the deficit down to the figure required by Brussels.It is five months since Hollande won the election and proclaimed from a stage in his rural fiefdom of Tulle: "I'm sure in a lot of European countries there is relief, hope that at last austerity is not an inevitability any more." He said then that his mission was to demand measures for "growth, jobs and prosperity" from European leaders. That mission is ever more pressing now because, back at home, things are already looking tough for the new president. In France, growth is almost nonexistent, unemployment has topped 3 million, and the 2013 French budget is the harshest in 30 years in order to bring the deficit down to the figure required by Brussels.
Hollande must not only tighten belts while promising to avoid the pain of cuts, but also studiously avoid the word "austerity". He also faces difficult choices on how to tackle labour reform, competitiveness, resurrect moribund industry and protect France's generous social welfare system. He is dropping in the polls: the latest, in the Nouvel Observateur, found only 40% had a good opinion of him.Hollande must not only tighten belts while promising to avoid the pain of cuts, but also studiously avoid the word "austerity". He also faces difficult choices on how to tackle labour reform, competitiveness, resurrect moribund industry and protect France's generous social welfare system. He is dropping in the polls: the latest, in the Nouvel Observateur, found only 40% had a good opinion of him.
It was against this backdrop that Hollande agreed to speak to the Guardian and its partners in the Europa project, for what was his first interview with a British newspaper since his election.It was against this backdrop that Hollande agreed to speak to the Guardian and its partners in the Europa project, for what was his first interview with a British newspaper since his election.
The socialist, who grew up hearing both his grandfathers' harrowing stories of the trenches of the first world war, and was once a political protege of Jacques Delors, one of the founding fathers of the single currency, was always pro-European. But that's a difficult path to tread on the French left. The French parliament's recent ratification of the fiscal treaty drawn up by "Merkozy" before him was a fraught process, with those on the left of his party rebelling and others on the left taking to the streets. The Socialists are still scarred by splits over the 2005 European constitution referendum and France's "no" vote.The socialist, who grew up hearing both his grandfathers' harrowing stories of the trenches of the first world war, and was once a political protege of Jacques Delors, one of the founding fathers of the single currency, was always pro-European. But that's a difficult path to tread on the French left. The French parliament's recent ratification of the fiscal treaty drawn up by "Merkozy" before him was a fraught process, with those on the left of his party rebelling and others on the left taking to the streets. The Socialists are still scarred by splits over the 2005 European constitution referendum and France's "no" vote.
"It was a serious warning, it wasn't listened to," Hollande said. Now, people had to regain trust in themselves and Europe, he added. "What's threatening us is not the nation, it's nationalism. It's not Europe, but its absence." He said the biggest threat to the European Union was "no longer being loved. Only being seen as at best an austere cash dispenser or at worst a reform school.""It was a serious warning, it wasn't listened to," Hollande said. Now, people had to regain trust in themselves and Europe, he added. "What's threatening us is not the nation, it's nationalism. It's not Europe, but its absence." He said the biggest threat to the European Union was "no longer being loved. Only being seen as at best an austere cash dispenser or at worst a reform school."
While Hollande cautioned Merkel not to play to her national audience, he has his own delicate game to play at home in France, a country deeply attached to its sovereignty.While Hollande cautioned Merkel not to play to her national audience, he has his own delicate game to play at home in France, a country deeply attached to its sovereignty.
Hollande said there was no question of backing down on shrinking the French deficit, not just because of promises to Europe but because from 2007 to 2012 – under Sarkozy – public debt leapt from 62% to 90% of GDP. "Continuing that trend was not sustainable."Hollande said there was no question of backing down on shrinking the French deficit, not just because of promises to Europe but because from 2007 to 2012 – under Sarkozy – public debt leapt from 62% to 90% of GDP. "Continuing that trend was not sustainable."
Asked about his working relationship with Merkel, he praised her propensity for straight talking. "She's clear, she spells things out … That saves time. And I have the same approach. After that, we're looking to find the best point of arrival from our departure points. It's much easier with explicit departure points, rather than ambiguity. And no one can accuse Angela Merkel of being ambiguous."Asked about his working relationship with Merkel, he praised her propensity for straight talking. "She's clear, she spells things out … That saves time. And I have the same approach. After that, we're looking to find the best point of arrival from our departure points. It's much easier with explicit departure points, rather than ambiguity. And no one can accuse Angela Merkel of being ambiguous."
Later, in a warning to David Cameron and other non-eurozone countries not to interfere in the single currency's political workings from the outside, he said: "Certain countries don't want to join [the eurozone] – that's their choice. But why should they come telling us how the eurozone should be run? It's a pretension I hear but that I don't think meets the need for coherence."Later, in a warning to David Cameron and other non-eurozone countries not to interfere in the single currency's political workings from the outside, he said: "Certain countries don't want to join [the eurozone] – that's their choice. But why should they come telling us how the eurozone should be run? It's a pretension I hear but that I don't think meets the need for coherence."
Asked if he would risk seeing Britain leave Europe, he said: "I would like a UK fully engaged in Europe, but I can't decide in place of the British. I see that for the moment they want to be more in retreat. The British are tied by the accords they have signed up to. They can't detach from them. At least they have the merit of clarity. They aren't in the eurozone or budgetary union. I don't intend to force them."Asked if he would risk seeing Britain leave Europe, he said: "I would like a UK fully engaged in Europe, but I can't decide in place of the British. I see that for the moment they want to be more in retreat. The British are tied by the accords they have signed up to. They can't detach from them. At least they have the merit of clarity. They aren't in the eurozone or budgetary union. I don't intend to force them."
In a message to Germany that France would stand by the others, he said: "France is the bridge between northern Europe and southern Europe. I refuse any division. If Europe has been reunified, it's not for it to then fall into egotism or 'each for one's own'. Our duty is to set common rules around the principles of responsibility and solidarity. As a French person, it's for me to ensure Europeans are conscious of belonging to the same group."In a message to Germany that France would stand by the others, he said: "France is the bridge between northern Europe and southern Europe. I refuse any division. If Europe has been reunified, it's not for it to then fall into egotism or 'each for one's own'. Our duty is to set common rules around the principles of responsibility and solidarity. As a French person, it's for me to ensure Europeans are conscious of belonging to the same group."
Asked if he had said that to Merkel, he said: "She knows it perfectly. That was the meaning of her trip to Athens."Asked if he had said that to Merkel, he said: "She knows it perfectly. That was the meaning of her trip to Athens."
He also dismissed German concerns about the European Central Bank. "I understand the weight of the memories of hyperinflation, passed down from generation to generation in Germany. The terms of the ECB's intervention avoid all risk of that nature, because the central bank comes in support of the decisions taken at the heart of the ESM. And what is the ESM if not a group of states? So the ECB won't create money when it comes in to support indebted countries. It will contribute to making monetary policy more efficient.He also dismissed German concerns about the European Central Bank. "I understand the weight of the memories of hyperinflation, passed down from generation to generation in Germany. The terms of the ECB's intervention avoid all risk of that nature, because the central bank comes in support of the decisions taken at the heart of the ESM. And what is the ESM if not a group of states? So the ECB won't create money when it comes in to support indebted countries. It will contribute to making monetary policy more efficient.
"I've taken on board the democratic arguments put forward across the Rhine. I perfectly admit that parliaments should be able to authorise the engagements demanded of countries both in the budgetary union and banking union. It's on those common principles that we can build solidarity. But there's no time to lose. France is ready.""I've taken on board the democratic arguments put forward across the Rhine. I perfectly admit that parliaments should be able to authorise the engagements demanded of countries both in the budgetary union and banking union. It's on those common principles that we can build solidarity. But there's no time to lose. France is ready."
He added: "I'll do everything for Greece to stay in the euro and have the resources it needs by the end of the year, without it having to be necessary to inflict new conditions other than these already admitted by the Samaras government." But Hollande said he also felt for the Spanish and Portuguese people "who had paid dearly for others' excesses".He added: "I'll do everything for Greece to stay in the euro and have the resources it needs by the end of the year, without it having to be necessary to inflict new conditions other than these already admitted by the Samaras government." But Hollande said he also felt for the Spanish and Portuguese people "who had paid dearly for others' excesses".
"The time has come to offer a perspective beyond austerity," he said, adding that Spain must know the precise conditions for getting financing agreed in June. There was no reason to make its burden heavier."The time has come to offer a perspective beyond austerity," he said, adding that Spain must know the precise conditions for getting financing agreed in June. There was no reason to make its burden heavier.
Asked if the worst was over, Hollande said: "Yes, the worst – in the sense of the fear of the eurozone breaking up – is over. But the best isn't there yet. It's up to us to build it."Asked if the worst was over, Hollande said: "Yes, the worst – in the sense of the fear of the eurozone breaking up – is over. But the best isn't there yet. It's up to us to build it."
François Hollande on:
Britain: I would like a UK fully engaged in Europe, but I can't decide in place of the British. I see that for the moment they want to be more in retreat. The British are tied by the accords they have signed up to. They can't detach from them. At least they have the merit of clarity. They aren't in the eurozone or budgetary union. I don't intend to force them.
Angela Merkel: She's very sensitive to questions of internal politics and to the demands of her parliament. I understand that, and can respect that. But we all have our own public opinion. Our common responsibility is to put Europe's interests first.
The Nobel prize: It was a tribute to the past and an appeal for the future.
Two-speed Europe: It's already the case Europe has several speeds.
Grexit: I'll do everything for Greece to stay in the euro and have the resources it needs by the end of the year, without it having to be necessary to inflict new conditions other than these already admitted by the Samaras government.
Light at the end of the tunnel: We are near, very near, to an end to the eurozone crisis … The worst – in the sense of the fear of the eurozone breaking up – is over. But the best isn't there yet.