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AntiSec hacking group did not obtain Apple IDs from federal laptop, says FBI
AntiSec hacking group did not obtain Apple IDs from federal laptop, says FBI
(14 days later)
The FBI has denied claims by a hacking group that says it obtained details of more than 12m Apple IDs from the laptop of a federal agent.
The FBI has denied claims by a hacking group that says it obtained details of more than 12m Apple IDs from the laptop of a federal agent.
The group, called AntiSec, said it found 12.36m IDs on the laptop and was making some details public in order to draw attention the the FBI's activities.
The group, called AntiSec, said it found 12.36m IDs on the laptop and was making some details public in order to draw attention the the FBI's activities.
In a statement, the group predicted the FBI would deny the breach. "Seems quite clear nobody pays attention if you just come and say 'Hey, FBI is using your device details and info and who the fuck knows what the hell are they experimenting with that,' well sorry, but nobody will care. FBI will, as usual, deny or ignore this uncomfortable thingie and everybody will forget the whole thing at amazing speed."
In a statement, the group predicted the FBI would deny the breach. "Seems quite clear nobody pays attention if you just come and say 'Hey, FBI is using your device details and info and who the fuck knows what the hell are they experimenting with that,' well sorry, but nobody will care. FBI will, as usual, deny or ignore this uncomfortable thingie and everybody will forget the whole thing at amazing speed."
The group said it believed the FBI was using the IDs to track people.
The group said it believed the FBI was using the IDs to track people.
The FBI released a statement late on Monday, which said: "The FBI is aware of published reports alleging that an FBI laptop was compromised and private data regarding Apple UDIDs was exposed. At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data."
The FBI released a statement late on Monday, which said: "The FBI is aware of published reports alleging that an FBI laptop was compromised and private data regarding Apple UDIDs was exposed. At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data."
Apple did not return calls for comment.
Apple did not return calls for comment.
According to the group the UDIDs (unique device IDs) were stored in a file named NCFTA_iOS_devices_intel.csv. NCFTA stands for National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance and is an alliance between businesses, academics and law enforcements aimed at cracking down on cybercrime.
According to the group the UDIDs (unique device IDs) were stored in a file named NCFTA_iOS_devices_intel.csv. NCFTA stands for National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance and is an alliance between businesses, academics and law enforcements aimed at cracking down on cybercrime.
Marco Arment, creator of the Instapaper app, said in a blogpost that the information could have come from an app and not necessarily from Apple.
Marco Arment, creator of the Instapaper app, said in a blogpost that the information could have come from an app and not necessarily from Apple.
"All of this information could have been collected from an app transmitting data to a server. For instance, this is exactly the information that an ad network would want to collect. And in order to get stats from 12 million devices, it would probably need to be from a set of popular, free apps … where you'd probably see ads," he wrote.
"All of this information could have been collected from an app transmitting data to a server. For instance, this is exactly the information that an ad network would want to collect. And in order to get stats from 12 million devices, it would probably need to be from a set of popular, free apps … where you'd probably see ads," he wrote.
Comments
87 comments, displaying first
4 September 2012 11:36PM
Bruce Willis is geting angry with Apple.
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4 September 2012 11:37PM
Companies like Apple & Facebook seem to get a lot of government support, probably due to all the info those corporations are very quick to share with the US government. If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear, etc etc etc...
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4 September 2012 11:40PM
".....At this time there is no evidence,,,,,".
F.B.I. in non-denial denial shock.
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4 September 2012 11:47PM
It's just that they think they have the right, where did this come from? I've never been asked. If someone was stood outside your door with a clipboard, recording your movements, i'm pretty sure you'd punch him sooner rather than later.
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4 September 2012 11:51PM
But but, the FBI is an agency of the soi disant champion of democracy and human rights. The soi disant champion of democracy and human rights would NEVER EVER spy on citizens. Only EVIL dictators do that.
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5 September 2012 12:20AM
oh no the FBI would never spy they get all their information the legitimate way mmmmmmmmmmmm
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5 September 2012 12:43AM
No big surprise really. Apple's experiments with tracking capabilities were revealed two years ago when they had to deactivate a feature on the iPhone. It's pretty clear where they're heading with their development in this direction, and I am pretty sure it's very interesting for intelligence agencies.
Yes, the FBI has allegedly gathered this data, but Apple has made it possible. I think the fans of the shiny iThingys should be asking themselves some searching questions about their favourite mega-corporation.
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5 September 2012 12:57AM
"You can trust us, we're the good guys"
I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box but seems to me that every scifi & pulp book I read in the 70's & 80's, written in the 40's-60's described the violations of civil rights and manipulation of info and other machinations in the name of good that lead to dictatorships and totalitarian apocalypse's is coming very close to true in the 00's-20teens.
Maybe not exactly but a lot more than I would have thought possible in Western nations.
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5 September 2012 1:03AM
Well I know who I believe in this case.
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5 September 2012 1:05AM
So cutting to the chase...
Is the only way to avoid being cyber-followed simply to turn off your computer? And is a life without computer contact with the wider world really so unthinkable? Would PGP or some other encryption system have helped?
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5 September 2012 1:06AM
Are you suggesting the FBI/ or whoever, are only interested in apple users? It's obviously the tip of a very large iceberg, and probably a lucky find. The'll be an android file somewhere....
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5 September 2012 1:07AM
Don't want to be followed? Turn off your devices.
Or have I missed something?
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5 September 2012 1:13AM
Privacy activists "obtained details of more than 12m Apple IDs from the laptop of a federal agent"
Shows yet again that the greatest risk of data leaks are the systems that concentrate data in one small file and then give that file to... people.
We had something similar with the child benefit agency and the Driving Licence records leaks. OOPS! 12m here, 14m there... you know how it is.
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5 September 2012 1:17AM
Don't want to be followed? Turn off your devices.
Or have I missed something?
Well, I would say the benefit of why you bought the thing in the first place if you have to keep it switched off.
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5 September 2012 1:22AM
State security services are by nature paranoid and will feverishly gather as much information on all their potential enemies. as computer systems allow.. That means on you, I and you.
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5 September 2012 1:26AM
I wonder how this ties in or not to the fact that use of UUIDs by applications has officially been deprecated since iOS 5...
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5 September 2012 1:33AM
$1bn should buy some level of loyalty.
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5 September 2012 1:34AM
The National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance, eh, what else have they been sharing? I would assume that Facebook is a charter member of that alliance. When Facebook went public, do you think In-Q-Tel, the CIA's venture capital group, cashed in their founder's equity? I think not. Why would they?
It is true, as the author of Instapaper says, that all of the really popular apps would have collected that many UDIDs. They're not secret. They're used to track you. It's just that nobody has been doing too much thinking about who has been doing all of the tracking.
If you want to mislead the trackers, leave your phone on and stuff it down the back seat of a cab before you meet with any of those Russian secret agents you're selling state secrets to, you know, Boris and Natasha. Then, later, call the cab company, give them the number of the cab and tell them you lost your phone. They'll give it right back. Sure.
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5 September 2012 2:07AM
You didnt really believe old uncle sam when they said they were the good guys did you? You didnt really think that once they became so powerful that rules became an option they would actually stick to them do you? Thats what happens when you hand people ultimate unrivalled totalitarian power over the whole world they stop obeying rules and do what they want because they figured out along time ago there is nothing anyone can do about it. Even if America did establish a dictatorship and started executing people of speaking out against it who would stop it? Suck up Britain would not we have done our fair share of covering up their warcrimes and have indeed been involved in them we certainly have no spoken out against them but like i said we are accomplices in the crime so it is best if we dont. The U.N may be quick to come down heavy on crumbling third world dictators but there is a big difference in the collective bullying of primitive armies that cannot defend themselves and fighting the biggest most powerful and best equipped military in the world. America knows there is no-one capable of doing anything about its warcrimes and civil oppression so therefore it can do what it wants this is not an Arab dictatorship and there will be no outside interventions regardless of offences committed. Putting a high ranking general in charge of the most powerful internal security agency or the CIA to you and me is not a democratic practice either but like everything else theres nothing to worry about so just go back to pretending everything is fine and forget about it. America has become outside any type of control and makes the rules up as it see's fit this type of behaviour is nothing new the biggest shock is people still seem to be surprised by it, but i guess burying your head in the sand and pretending there is no danger has been the preferred tactic for some time now why change this late in the game? If America stopped caring about freedom democracy and human rights and set about enslaving the whole human race in the name of its own interests there is nothing anyone can do about it the only thing we can do is hope they dont.
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5 September 2012 2:13AM
I liked that too . . .Not at all the same as "no we didn't do that" is it?
I keep wondering what use all this stuff is to them in the end. I mean. you really are going to be out of the tech loop if you use your iPhone to text something like "Don't forget we're raiding the Chase Manhattan Bank vault at 10am next Thursday, b there or b square" aren't you?
They didn't find Bin Laden by nobbling his Angry Birds app, did they?
No wonder the number of security agency personnel in the USA is so huge by now. The whole thing is stupid. A while ago, when all that post 9/11 paranoia got going, a friend of mine (who's a university professor, but has an Arabic name) sent me a diagram of a very simple —and obvious, or at least it should have been to anyone who's ever connected any pro sound equipment up with cables and plugs—electronic component I'd forgotten how to wire for what I needed, and it disappeared for five days.
It's coming to something when I wonder if I was in the USA (or maybe the UK now) and I rang someone and asked "If I connect pins 1 and 2 to 2 and 1, and bridge pins 4 and 5, will that work or do I need to put a resistor in the circuit?" and would have to worry about the FBI breaking the door down.
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5 September 2012 2:25AM
If you can do, you will.
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5 September 2012 4:41AM
You bet. I'll certainly take the word of the Feebs, Boners and Idiots, uh huh.
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5 September 2012 5:37AM
The End Of America.
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5 September 2012 5:55AM
Shouldn't this headline read " FBI do not deny Antisec claims" ? "At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data." This is not a denial, it just says " You have no proof".
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5 September 2012 6:35AM
Well they would say that, wouldn't they. Those with short memories will recall that Apple had a well-publicised problem with identity security a year or so ago. After a short pause the company said it had fixed the problem. But in this Cupertino Cops world, who knows?
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5 September 2012 6:39AM
I'm really a Mr Average. I'm guessing most people who read this are also just very average folk. Yet we think we are somehow interesting enough, leading such special lives that the secret services are watching our every move from the shadows? If they're following me then that will be 1 very board agent sitting in the van on the opposite side of the street. Hell there is a van too!
Sent from my iPad
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5 September 2012 7:52AM
Doesn't surprise me in the least and as another poster said, the tip of a very big iceberg. Ever since 9-11- god's gift to every American crypto fascist w an agenda most notably the joined at the hip BushCheney Gangster Criminal Cabal - imo America has been silently creeping twd an increasingly fascist "Homeland Security State". I believe the FBI as far as I can throw them.
I recall in the late 1980s just before the Berlin Wall fell, I served in an Army Natl Guard unit after my service in the Marines and noticed a photo and plaque to some old officer geezer fm the 1920s in the entrance of the armory and to my horror read of the man the unit honoured- a colonel in Army Intelligence who like Joe McCarthy and US Atty Gen Mitchell Palmer had a serious obsession w communists and the plaque proudly told of "Colonel Douchebag" keeping in his *pvt possession* secret files on *tens of thousands* of private American citizens- the man was a f- ng monster and yet the CA Natl Guard regarded him as an American hero. Pvtly outraged, I quit the unit shortly after. I believed the Armed Forces like my Marine Corps were to protect Americans and not spy on them.
America was supposed to be morally superior to the murderous Soviet Union that I still hate 20 yrs after it's demise and served my country honourably to defend against and when branches of gov make a mockery of our priceless democratic ideals and crap on our civil liberties, well, my disillusionment and cynicism only increases. It's not beyond science fiction with the very slippery slope our liberties rest now on that drones will one day eventually be used on American citizens to watch, control and if necessary, kill them just like they were Taliban big whigs in Pakistan's tribal areas.
Imo and that of the late William F Buckley, the greatest film I have ever seen- the Oscar winning 'The Lives Of Others'- I literally put my face in my hands and wept after seeing it- amazing:
- "must see" and what America imo will eventually become. The old East German Stasi would be proud of the FBI.
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5 September 2012 8:08AM
Funny that, and there was I thinking that Apple was hacker and virus-proof, cos Steve told me so.
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5 September 2012 8:20AM
The answer is not to throw away your device but not to install the latest Angry Birds or Spotify that serve you ads because they are free. In order to serve you ads they must have access to your device and have the UDID, otherwise how do the ad servers know where to send the ads?
We are too quick to latch onto free stuff and not think about the true cost of it.
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5 September 2012 8:22AM
qwertyKeyboard 5 September 2012 6:39AM ............. If they're following me then that will be 1 very board agent sitting in the van on the opposite side of the street.......
.....
I m assuming that the agent would be bored stiff, with a wooden expression on his face. Knot a lot to add. I hope I made it plane. You know the drill. Nailed it in one. .
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5 September 2012 8:44AM
The downside of being on a network. If you were up to no good you'd best hand write a letter.
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5 September 2012 8:45AM
Apple Hoovers up your data.
When the app is free, you are the product (kind of puts a crimp in Linux's style).
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5 September 2012 8:53AM
I think it is very irresponsible of the feds to deny the sources, the statement that went with the 1000001 apple accounts claims that the data was trimmed before publishing. I would imagine that this hacker group could prove their claims if they are indeed true and perhaps this 'game' will lead to more account info being leaked into the public domain. I would imagine that apple is feeling a backlash from 'vulnerable' users. Time will tell.
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5 September 2012 9:02AM
rerab2 5 September 2012 8:22AM qwertyKeyboard 5 September 2012 6:39AM ............. If they're following me then that will be 1 very board agent sitting in the van on the opposite side of the street....... ..... I m assuming that the agent would be bored stiff, with a wooden expression on his face. Knot a lot to add. I hope I made it plane. You know the drill. Nailed it in one.
.... yikes my spelling is being monitored too! Oh how I once trusted Apple.. now they share my data and keep failing to predict my text correctly..
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5 September 2012 9:09AM
I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box but seems to me that every scifi & pulp book I read in the 70's & 80's, written in the 40's-60's described the violations of civil rights and manipulation of info and other machinations in the name of good that lead to dictatorships and totalitarian apocalypse's is coming very close to true in the 00's-20teens.
Even the authors tend to be shocked and surprised at how true it all comes!
in the light of Gideon's remarkable submission to the ECHR that Christians can't be discriminated against at work, because if they don't like it they can always resign. Until, that is, they've been forced out of a dozen jobs in a row, no-one will employ them anymore and the benefit office hold that "being Christian" amounts to being intentionally out of work.
Or, if there's an official religion, you can put "athiest" into the above just as well.
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5 September 2012 9:17AM
Shouldn't this headline read "did not obtain" instead of the grammatically incorrect "did not obtained"? Are there no copy editors at the Guardian any more?
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5 September 2012 9:17AM
The US is a corpocracy and there is no way in hell that the FBI is innocent. The form part of the gangster state.
We are living in the world of Goldman Sachs and you must be happy to be part of it.
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5 September 2012 9:19AM
qwertyKeyboard "Sent from my iPad"
That adds so much weight to your argument.
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5 September 2012 9:19AM
"The FBI is aware of published reports alleging that an FBI laptop was compromised and private data regarding Apple UDIDs was exposed. At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data."
That's not a denial. That's just a vacous statement to buy time while collective arses are covered.
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5 September 2012 9:20AM
When it turns out Apple were voluntarily handing over these IDs this story will suddenly disappear.
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5 September 2012 9:20AM
If you're on FB and you've got an i-phone... you may as well have an FBI-phone!!!!!
(buh-dom-tssh).
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5 September 2012 9:23AM
I'm really a Mr Average. I'm guessing most people who read this are also just very average folk.
I think you overestimate yourself. I expect the "board" agent is checking your surfing habits.
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5 September 2012 9:24AM
I agree. Apple's court victory against Samsung in the US is a case in point. Outside the US they haven't been able to win. So yeah, nobody would be shocked if there was some type of cooperation between the two.
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5 September 2012 9:30AM
The FBI can know all they want about me. My life is unimaginably dull. So much so, I spend loads of time reading shite news articles and posting comments on the end in a vain attempt at self-validation. I sometimes get into arguments with other posters and endeavour to demonstrate my intellectual superiority in all matters temporal and spiritual. Despite all of this, I'm still fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
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5 September 2012 9:39AM
At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data."
That's not a denial - THIS IS A DENIAL!
The FBI confirms that it has never been in possession of any illegally obtained UDID information, and will not seek to obtain such information in the future. Hence the claim of a data leak of such information can only be false, so help me God.
Not expecting to hear this anytime soon, mind you.
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5 September 2012 9:46AM
Despite all of this, I'm still fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Man, that's not even an inferiority complex. I think it's only an inferiority simplex.
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5 September 2012 9:47AM
@rollmop Your "denial" assumes the FBI would need to illegally obtain these IDs. It's pretty obvious Apple Inc and US telcos will hand them over as requested. They have friends in high places, how do you think they keep them sweet?
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5 September 2012 9:50AM
"Ozymandius"
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5 September 2012 10:01AM
IN Egypt's sandy silence, all alone, Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws The only shadow that the Desert knows:— "I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone, "The King of Kings; this mighty City shows "The wonders of my hand."— The City's gone,— Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose The site of this forgotten Babylon.
We wonder,—and some Hunter may express Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace, He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess What powerful but unrecorded race Once dwelt in that annihilated place.
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5 September 2012 10:04AM
Come on, we weren't all born yesterday
At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised...
This is the most telling statement that confirms the FBI had these details. Whenever any organisation states that there is no 'evidence', it means it's true but there is no way of proving it.
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Group said it found over 12m Apple IDs on agent's computer, but FBI says it has no knowledge of any data breach
The FBI has denied claims by a hacking group that says it obtained details of more than 12m Apple IDs from the laptop of a federal agent.
The group, called AntiSec, said it found 12.36m IDs on the laptop and was making some details public in order to draw attention the the FBI's activities.
In a statement, the group predicted the FBI would deny the breach. "Seems quite clear nobody pays attention if you just come and say 'Hey, FBI is using your device details and info and who the fuck knows what the hell are they experimenting with that,' well sorry, but nobody will care. FBI will, as usual, deny or ignore this uncomfortable thingie and everybody will forget the whole thing at amazing speed."
The group said it believed the FBI was using the IDs to track people.
The FBI released a statement late on Monday, which said: "The FBI is aware of published reports alleging that an FBI laptop was compromised and private data regarding Apple UDIDs was exposed. At this time there is no evidence indicating that an FBI laptop was compromised or that the FBI either sought or obtained this data."
Apple did not return calls for comment.
According to the group the UDIDs (unique device IDs) were stored in a file named NCFTA_iOS_devices_intel.csv. NCFTA stands for National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance and is an alliance between businesses, academics and law enforcements aimed at cracking down on cybercrime.
Marco Arment, creator of the Instapaper app, said in a blogpost that the information could have come from an app and not necessarily from Apple.
"All of this information could have been collected from an app transmitting data to a server. For instance, this is exactly the information that an ad network would want to collect. And in order to get stats from 12 million devices, it would probably need to be from a set of popular, free apps … where you'd probably see ads," he wrote.
