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Lords expected to oppose reforms Lords support all-appointed House
(30 minutes later)
The House of Lords is expected to oppose government plans to elect most, or all, of its members in future. Peers have overwhelmingly voted for all members of a reformed House of Lords to be appointed - setting them on a clear collision course with MPs.
Peers are ending a two-day debate by voting on choices ranging from creating an all-elected second chamber to keeping an all-appointed one. Last week MPs voted in favour of 80% or all members of a reformed House of Lords being elected in the future.
They are expected to come out strongly against last week's Commons vote in favour of all members being elected. Peers are now voting on the same range of options, from an all-elected to an all-appointed reformed Lords.
The last government attempt to reform the Lords, in 2003, failed after MPs could not agree on a way forward. The first vote was on it remaining an all-appointed House. It was passed by 361 votes to 121 votes.
ManifestoManifesto
The result suggests there could be months of Parliamentary gridlock.
In theory the Commons could force through changes against the wishes of the House of Lords, but that would be controversial and take up a great deal of Parliamentary time.
The issue then would be whether Gordon Brown, or whoever succeeds Tony Blair as prime minister, sees the reform as a high enough priority to justify the amount of government time it would be likely to take up.
On Tuesday, the Archbishop of York, the Most Rev John Sentamu, told peers that elected members would be less independent. His views were echoed on all sides.On Tuesday, the Archbishop of York, the Most Rev John Sentamu, told peers that elected members would be less independent. His views were echoed on all sides.
Commons leader Jack Straw, who proposed the plans, is battling to reach a compromise with the widest possible backing.Commons leader Jack Straw, who proposed the plans, is battling to reach a compromise with the widest possible backing.
There have been suggestions that some MPs who voted in favour of a 100% elected second chamber wanted to scupper the plans by ensuring an option unacceptable to either the government or peers was chosen.There have been suggestions that some MPs who voted in favour of a 100% elected second chamber wanted to scupper the plans by ensuring an option unacceptable to either the government or peers was chosen.
REFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White PaperREFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White Paper
Labour's Baroness Symons said she would vote for a 100% appointed Lords, as an elected House would threaten the primacy of the Commons.Labour's Baroness Symons said she would vote for a 100% appointed Lords, as an elected House would threaten the primacy of the Commons.
She said it would be "misleading to give the electorate the right to vote, without the right of the elected to deliver on that vote".She said it would be "misleading to give the electorate the right to vote, without the right of the elected to deliver on that vote".
Labour's Lord Desai, who supports a fully elected House, described the MPs' vote as "revolutionary".Labour's Lord Desai, who supports a fully elected House, described the MPs' vote as "revolutionary".
"If we have an all-elected House it will be a new constitutional arrangement."If we have an all-elected House it will be a new constitutional arrangement.
"All the conventions we have fashioned will have to be carefully examined and we may have to face up to a written constitution."All the conventions we have fashioned will have to be carefully examined and we may have to face up to a written constitution.
"We have no reason to fear that if we are removed, the world would come to an end. Perhaps there are other people who could be as good. Let's give the reforms a chance.""We have no reason to fear that if we are removed, the world would come to an end. Perhaps there are other people who could be as good. Let's give the reforms a chance."
Priority
Conservative Lord Trefgarne said he was not opposed to reform but only when presented in a more considered manner by the government.Conservative Lord Trefgarne said he was not opposed to reform but only when presented in a more considered manner by the government.
In theory the Commons could force through changes against the wishes of the House of Lords, but that would be controversial and take up a great deal of Parliamentary time.
The issue then would be whether Gordon Brown, or whoever succeeds Tony Blair as prime minister, sees the reform as a high enough priority to justify the amount of government time it would be likely to take up.