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MPs back all-elected Lords plans MPs back all-elected Lords plans
(10 minutes later)
MPs have voted to reform the House of Lords by demanding all members are elected, rather than appointed.MPs have voted to reform the House of Lords by demanding all members are elected, rather than appointed.
There was a majority of 113 in favour of this proposal.There was a majority of 113 in favour of this proposal.
MPs, allowed more than one choice, also voted by a majority of 38 for 80% of members of a reformed second chamber being elected and 20% appointed.MPs, allowed more than one choice, also voted by a majority of 38 for 80% of members of a reformed second chamber being elected and 20% appointed.
The decisions, based on plans devised by Commons leader Jack Straw, will not pass into law but are expected to inform government reform plans.The decisions, based on plans devised by Commons leader Jack Straw, will not pass into law but are expected to inform government reform plans.
Mr Straw put forward nine options, ranging from all members being appointed to all being elected, with the other seven all rejected. Mr Straw put forward nine options for reform, with the rest rejected.
Long debateLong debate
He said earlier: "The choice in my judgement is stark - change or wither away."He said earlier: "The choice in my judgement is stark - change or wither away."
LORDS REFORM VOTING All appointed house - rejected by 179 votes20% elected - rejected, no vote40% elected - rejected, no voteHalf elected/half appointed - rejected by 263 votes60% elected - rejected by 214 votes80% elected - backed by 38 votesAll elected - backed by 113 votesLORDS REFORM VOTING All appointed house - rejected by 179 votes20% elected - rejected, no vote40% elected - rejected, no voteHalf elected/half appointed - rejected by 263 votes60% elected - rejected by 214 votes80% elected - backed by 38 votesAll elected - backed by 113 votes
The MPs' decisions follow two days of debate in the Commons.The MPs' decisions follow two days of debate in the Commons.
During these discussions, Labour peer Lord Lipsey published figures of £1,092m as the cost for the proposed shake-up.During these discussions, Labour peer Lord Lipsey published figures of £1,092m as the cost for the proposed shake-up.
He said he used official figures and plausible assumptions to reach the estimate, but a government source dismissed that figure as based on "back-of-an-envelope calculations".He said he used official figures and plausible assumptions to reach the estimate, but a government source dismissed that figure as based on "back-of-an-envelope calculations".
The last time the Commons voted on Lords reform, Mr Straw backed plans for a wholly appointed upper house.The last time the Commons voted on Lords reform, Mr Straw backed plans for a wholly appointed upper house.
He told MPs that while he had initially thought an elected second chamber would "undermine" the primacy of the Commons, he had since changed his mind.
REFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White PaperREFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White Paper
But he admitted if there was a partially or wholly elected upper house, "then the appetite to challenge this place [the Commons] will increase. He told MPs that while he had initially thought an elected second chamber would "undermine" the primacy of the Commons, he had since changed his mind.
"We have to anticipate that when drawing up the framework for how a second house will work," Mr Straw said.
Conservative policy director Oliver Letwin said the "primacy" of the Commons was overrated.Conservative policy director Oliver Letwin said the "primacy" of the Commons was overrated.
"There are some people in this House who are concerned about the matter - my point is the 60 million people out there (who) couldn't care less about the primacy of anything, particularly the House of Commons.""There are some people in this House who are concerned about the matter - my point is the 60 million people out there (who) couldn't care less about the primacy of anything, particularly the House of Commons."
He said in constitutional terms what mattered was "can the government govern?" Most Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs are thought to have favoured the 80% elected and all-elected options.
'Historic week'
Liberal Democrat constitutional affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said his party would only vote for the 80% and 100% elected options.
He added: "This could be a historic week, and it will be if we don't make the mistake of February 2003 [when attempts to reform the Lords failed]."
At the moment all peers are appointed, apart from the 92 hereditary peers who survived the first phase of Lords reform during Tony Blair's first term in office.At the moment all peers are appointed, apart from the 92 hereditary peers who survived the first phase of Lords reform during Tony Blair's first term in office.
Labour's Sir Gerald Kaufman said six of the options were "gibberish", with abolition, 100% elected or 100% appointed being the only possibilities. In another voted, MPs decided by a majority of 280 to remove the remaining hereditaries.
But he warned that regardless of the vote on Wednesday, the next prime minister would not allow "his only full session of this Parliament to be bogged down with this ludicrous nonsense".
Any changes would face a big challenge to get through the Commons. Even if they did so they would then be expected to face a rough ride in the Lords.