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Church abuse victims 'disgusted' by Welby's speech Church abuse victims 'disgusted' by Welby's speech
(about 2 hours later)
The Archbishop of Canterbury has been condemned by victims of the Church of England abuse scandal for a speech they say made light of serious safeguarding failures.The Archbishop of Canterbury has been condemned by victims of the Church of England abuse scandal for a speech they say made light of serious safeguarding failures.
In his first public speech since announcing his resignation last month, Justin Welby told the House of Lords a head had to roll after a review criticised failings in handling of the scandal. In his first public speech since announcing his resignation last month, Justin Welby told the House of Lords a head had had to roll after a review criticised failings in the handling of the scandal.
But abuse victims say they were "dismayed" and "disgusted" by the speech, saying it made no mention of any remorse for survivors and struck too "frivolous" a tone with jokes. Abuse victims say they were "dismayed" and "disgusted" by the speech, saying it made no mention of remorse for survivors and struck too "frivolous" a tone with jokes.
The independent Makin review found Welby "could and should" have reported prolific child abuser John Smyth to the police in 2013. The Makin review found Mr Welby "could and should" have reported prolific child abuser John Smyth to the police in 2013 and criticised the Church for not doing enough to prevent further abuse until he died.
Speaking in the Lords on Thursday, the archbishop said: "The reality is that there comes a time if you are technically leading a particular institution or area of responsibility where the shame of what has gone wrong, whether one is personally responsible or not, must require a head to roll. Speaking in the Lords on Thursday, the archbishop said: "The reality is that there comes a time if you are technically leading a particular institution or area of responsibility where the shame of what has gone wrong – whether one is personally responsible or not – must require a head to roll.
"And there is only, in this case, one head that rolls well enough.""And there is only, in this case, one head that rolls well enough."
He also referred to a 14th century predecessor who had been beheaded, adding: "I hope not literally." He also referred to a 14th century predecessor who had been beheaded, adding: "I hope not literally."
Mark Stibbe, who has previously told the BBC he was groomed and beaten by Smyth in the 1970s, said: "I object to the use of such a frivolous tone in such a serious matter - a matter that has been, and continues to be, a matter of life and death to some."Mark Stibbe, who has previously told the BBC he was groomed and beaten by Smyth in the 1970s, said: "I object to the use of such a frivolous tone in such a serious matter - a matter that has been, and continues to be, a matter of life and death to some."
He added that talk of only one head rolling over the scandal was "disturbing".He added that talk of only one head rolling over the scandal was "disturbing".
"Smyth survivors want all those responsible to stand down," he said. "If Justin Welby is as serious about safeguarding as he claims, then this must happen.""Smyth survivors want all those responsible to stand down," he said. "If Justin Welby is as serious about safeguarding as he claims, then this must happen."
Another of Smyth's victims, given the pseudonym Graham Jones in the Makin report, said the tone of Mr Welby's speech was "entirely wrong".Another of Smyth's victims, given the pseudonym Graham Jones in the Makin report, said the tone of Mr Welby's speech was "entirely wrong".
"It did not appear to be one of sorrow which is what was required," he told the BBC."It did not appear to be one of sorrow which is what was required," he told the BBC.
"This would have been an opportunity to look into the camera and say sorry but instead he talked frivolously about a matter that has led to suicide attempts by victims," he added."This would have been an opportunity to look into the camera and say sorry but instead he talked frivolously about a matter that has led to suicide attempts by victims," he added.
"I was disgusted by the speech.""I was disgusted by the speech."
Smyth is believed to have abused more than 100 boys and young men at Christian summer camps in England in the 1970s and 1980s, and later in South Africa and Zimbabwe. Smyth, a barrister and lay preacher, is believed to have abused more than 100 boys and young men at Christian summer camps in England in the 1970s and 1980s, and later in South Africa and Zimbabwe.
He is thought to have continued his abuse until his 2018 death in Cape Town, aged 75. He is thought to have continued his abuse until 2018 when he died in Cape Town, aged 75.
The independent Makin review said Church officials, including Mr Welby, "could and should" have reported Smyth to the police and authorities in South Africa in 2013.
It also said Mr Welby had had a "personal and moral responsibility" to do more to ensure there was no further abuse by Smyth in South Africa.
The review also said more should have been done to contact victims of Smyth.
The archbishop said in his resignation statement a month ago he "must take personal and institutional responsibility" for how he responded when first told about the abuse.The archbishop said in his resignation statement a month ago he "must take personal and institutional responsibility" for how he responded when first told about the abuse.
He said he was "told that police had been notified" in 2013 and that he "believed wrongly that an appropriate resolution would follow".He said he was "told that police had been notified" in 2013 and that he "believed wrongly that an appropriate resolution would follow".
And he said he resigned "in sorrow with all victims and survivors of abuse." And he said he resigned "in sorrow with all victims and survivors of abuse."
On Thursday in the Lords during a debate on homelessness, Mr Welby began on a light-hearted note by saying he pitied his diary secretary who had worked hard on arranging his diary for the year ahead, before the announcement of his resignation. On Thursday in the Lords during a debate on homelessness, Mr Welby began on a light-hearted note by saying he pitied his diary secretary who had worked hard on arranging his diary for the year ahead, before the announcement of his resignation.
He continued that safeguarding in the Church of England was "a completely different picture to the past".He continued that safeguarding in the Church of England was "a completely different picture to the past".
"However, when I look back at the last 50 or 60 years, not only through the eyes of the Makin report – however one takes one's view of personal responsibility – it is clear that I had to stand down," he said."However, when I look back at the last 50 or 60 years, not only through the eyes of the Makin report – however one takes one's view of personal responsibility – it is clear that I had to stand down," he said.
Reacting to his speech, Mr Stibbe said the archbishop appeared to be backing away from what the archbishop had previously said in his resignation speech about being personally responsible for his handling of the Smyth case. Reacting to his speech, Mr Stibbe said the archbishop appeared to be backing away from what Mr Welby had previously said in his resignation speech about being personally responsible for his handling of the Smyth case.
"Yes, he says he is technically and institutionally culpable. But is he now questioning his personal responsibility?," asked Mr Stibbe. "Yes, he says he is technically and institutionally culpable. But is he now questioning his personal responsibility?" asked Mr Stibbe.
Meanwhile Mr Jones took issue with the archbishop's references to his diary secretary's workload. Meanwhile, Mr Jones took issue with the archbishop's references to his diary secretary's workload.
"He said he pitied his diary secretary without a word of pity for the victims of abuse," said Mr Jones."He said he pitied his diary secretary without a word of pity for the victims of abuse," said Mr Jones.
The Bishop of Newcastle, Helen-Ann Hartley, added her voice of condemnation. The Bishop of Newcastle, Helen-Ann Hartley, added her voice of condemnation.
She said she was "deeply disturbed" by some of the archbishop's language.She said she was "deeply disturbed" by some of the archbishop's language.
"To make light of serious matters of safeguarding failures in this way yet again treats victims and survivors of church abuse without proper respect or regard," she said."To make light of serious matters of safeguarding failures in this way yet again treats victims and survivors of church abuse without proper respect or regard," she said.
She added that she was "disappointed" to see other bishops in the House of Lords laughing at some of the jokes.She added that she was "disappointed" to see other bishops in the House of Lords laughing at some of the jokes.
Bishop Hartley was the most senior member of the clergy to call for Mr Welby's resignation after the Makin report was published. She has since told the BBC she has been "frozen out" by her Church of England colleagues.Bishop Hartley was the most senior member of the clergy to call for Mr Welby's resignation after the Makin report was published. She has since told the BBC she has been "frozen out" by her Church of England colleagues.
Justin Welby presided over several high profile ceremonies during his 11 years as archbishop, including the King's coronation in May 2023.Justin Welby presided over several high profile ceremonies during his 11 years as archbishop, including the King's coronation in May 2023.
The archbishop is due to step down on 6 January, with the Archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, taking charge until a permanent replacement is found.The archbishop is due to step down on 6 January, with the Archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, taking charge until a permanent replacement is found.
The search for a successor is expected to take around six months.The search for a successor is expected to take around six months.
An announcement earlier this week confirmed the bishop Jo Bailey Wells, the archbishop's former personal chaplain, had "stepped back from her ministry" following the Makin report.An announcement earlier this week confirmed the bishop Jo Bailey Wells, the archbishop's former personal chaplain, had "stepped back from her ministry" following the Makin report.
A Diocese of London spokesperson said a safeguarding risk assessment would take place.A Diocese of London spokesperson said a safeguarding risk assessment would take place.
This comes after Lambeth Palace confirmed on Wednesday that the archbishop would not deliver the traditional Christmas Day sermon at Canterbury Cathedral.This comes after Lambeth Palace confirmed on Wednesday that the archbishop would not deliver the traditional Christmas Day sermon at Canterbury Cathedral.
BBC Action Line: If you have been affected by issues in this story, find out what support is available here.BBC Action Line: If you have been affected by issues in this story, find out what support is available here.