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| Problem children target defended | Problem children target defended |
| (about 1 hour later) | |
| The minister in charge of a plan to identify potential troublemakers even before birth has defended the move, saying state intervention "can work". | |
| Social exclusion minister Hilary Armstrong spoke out as ex-MP Tony Benn likened the plan to "eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about". | Social exclusion minister Hilary Armstrong spoke out as ex-MP Tony Benn likened the plan to "eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about". |
| Ms Armstrong says the government has to intervene earlier to prevent problems developing when children are older. | Ms Armstrong says the government has to intervene earlier to prevent problems developing when children are older. |
| Tony Blair will outline the strategy in a speech in the regions on Tuesday. | Tony Blair will outline the strategy in a speech in the regions on Tuesday. |
| Alcohol problems | Alcohol problems |
| The prime minister says it is possible to spot the families whose circumstances made it likely their children would grow up to be a "menace to society". | The prime minister says it is possible to spot the families whose circumstances made it likely their children would grow up to be a "menace to society". |
| He said teenage mothers and problem families could be forced to take help to head off difficulties. | |
| This one about identifying troublesome children in the foetus - this is eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about Tony Benn | This one about identifying troublesome children in the foetus - this is eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about Tony Benn |
| His government has made "massive progress" in tackling social exclusion but there is still a group of people with multiple problems, he said. | His government has made "massive progress" in tackling social exclusion but there is still a group of people with multiple problems, he said. |
| There had to be intervention "pre-birth even", he said, because families with drug and alcohol problems were being identified too late. | There had to be intervention "pre-birth even", he said, because families with drug and alcohol problems were being identified too late. |
| And he conceded many people might be uneasy with the idea of intervening in people's family life but said there was no point "pussy-footing". | And he conceded many people might be uneasy with the idea of intervening in people's family life but said there was no point "pussy-footing". |
| But he said: "If we are not prepared to predict and intervene far more early then there are children who are growing up - in families which we know are dysfunctional - and the kids a few years down the line are going to be a menace to society and actually a threat to themselves." | But he said: "If we are not prepared to predict and intervene far more early then there are children who are growing up - in families which we know are dysfunctional - and the kids a few years down the line are going to be a menace to society and actually a threat to themselves." |
| Mr Blair will hammer home his thinking on Tuesday in his first policy speech since his summer break. | Mr Blair will hammer home his thinking on Tuesday in his first policy speech since his summer break. |
| 'Aspirations' | 'Aspirations' |
| But Mr Benn, an MP until 2001, dismissed the plan as one of "a million new gimmicks" outlined by the prime minister. | But Mr Benn, an MP until 2001, dismissed the plan as one of "a million new gimmicks" outlined by the prime minister. |
| "This one about identifying troublesome children in the foetus - this is eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about," he told BBC's Five Live. | "This one about identifying troublesome children in the foetus - this is eugenics, the sort of thing Hitler talked about," he told BBC's Five Live. |
| "I just think that people don't believe him any more." | "I just think that people don't believe him any more." |
| But Ms Armstrong said while the government had raised "many, many people out of dire poverty and worklessness" it now needed to give them "the ability to see what they can do to raise their children's opportunities". | But Ms Armstrong said while the government had raised "many, many people out of dire poverty and worklessness" it now needed to give them "the ability to see what they can do to raise their children's opportunities". |
| "There is a group at the bottom that no government has previously effectively tackled and we are now taking the next step," she told Andrew Marr on the BBC's Sunday AM programme. | "There is a group at the bottom that no government has previously effectively tackled and we are now taking the next step," she told Andrew Marr on the BBC's Sunday AM programme. |
| Action plan | Action plan |
| "I know that they do have aspirations for their family. They too would like their children to being doing very well. | "I know that they do have aspirations for their family. They too would like their children to being doing very well. |
| "For some they have not had the experience, they have not had the role models ... | "For some they have not had the experience, they have not had the role models ... |
| "If we can find what it is that will really tap into them, then we can really change their belief in themselves and their ability to cope with the world." | "If we can find what it is that will really tap into them, then we can really change their belief in themselves and their ability to cope with the world." |
| Ms Armstrong said she had spoken to the partner of a drug addict in Bolton who said that he would not have been receiving treatment if he had not been pushed into it. | Ms Armstrong said she had spoken to the partner of a drug addict in Bolton who said that he would not have been receiving treatment if he had not been pushed into it. |
| "We know that intervention can work," she said. "I'm bringing out a new action plan in the next few days." | "We know that intervention can work," she said. "I'm bringing out a new action plan in the next few days." |
| The Conservatives argue that the answer is "not more state intervention", while the Liberal Democrats claim the government has failed to tackle poverty, crime and social exclusion for the last nine years. | The Conservatives argue that the answer is "not more state intervention", while the Liberal Democrats claim the government has failed to tackle poverty, crime and social exclusion for the last nine years. |
| Anastasia de Waal, head of the family and education unit at think tank Civitas, said: "It is teetering on genetic determinism this kind of saying that before children are even born they are labelled as problematic." | Anastasia de Waal, head of the family and education unit at think tank Civitas, said: "It is teetering on genetic determinism this kind of saying that before children are even born they are labelled as problematic." |