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| UK Covid live: No 10 refuses to back health chief’s call for people to avoid unnecessary socialising | UK Covid live: No 10 refuses to back health chief’s call for people to avoid unnecessary socialising |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| Unusual rebuke for Dr Jenny Harries comes after she says reducing social contacts could help keep new variant’s spread at bay | Unusual rebuke for Dr Jenny Harries comes after she says reducing social contacts could help keep new variant’s spread at bay |
| In the Commons Maggie Throup, the health minister, has just wound up the debate. She ended with a slightly firmer rebuke to Dr Jenny Harries than she managed at the start of the debate. (See 1.11pm.) She said it was “government that sets policy and guidance” and that that was what the public should follow. | |
| MPs are now voting on the first set of regulations, relating to face coverings. There was very loud cheering “no” cheering from Tory MPs opposed to the measure when Dame Eleanor Laing, the deputy Speaker, called the division. | |
| Yesterday Edward Argar, the health minister, said he did not expect Covid regulations to tighten again before Christmas. And today Boris Johnson said there was no need for rules to change. (See 1.02pm.) | |
| But, according to a YouGov poll, two thirds of people do expect further restrictions to be introduced within the next four weeks. | |
| Bob Seely (Con) has just finished his speech in the Commons. Most of it was devoted to claims that Prof Neil Ferguson, the Imperial College epidemiologist whose modelling was influential in persuading Boris Johnson to order the first lockdown, was unreliable. | |
| Baker says MPs face “a fundamental choice between heading towards heaven and heading towards hell”. The government is taking “the path to hell”, he claims. He says he is going to vote against all the measures, because he want to take the path towards heaven. He says he hopes MPs will follow him. | Baker says MPs face “a fundamental choice between heading towards heaven and heading towards hell”. The government is taking “the path to hell”, he claims. He says he is going to vote against all the measures, because he want to take the path towards heaven. He says he hopes MPs will follow him. |
| Back in the Commons Steve Baker (Con), deputy chair of the Covid Recovery Group, is speaking now. He says the government seems to be working on the principle that you cannot be too careful. But you can be too careful, he says. | Back in the Commons Steve Baker (Con), deputy chair of the Covid Recovery Group, is speaking now. He says the government seems to be working on the principle that you cannot be too careful. But you can be too careful, he says. |
| He says if the government continues to over-react when there is a threat, whole sectors, like air travel and hospitality and tourism, will become uninvestable, he says. | He says if the government continues to over-react when there is a threat, whole sectors, like air travel and hospitality and tourism, will become uninvestable, he says. |
| These are from the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg. | These are from the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg. |
| In the Commons Mark Harper, chair of the lockdown-sceptic Tory Covid Recovery Group, is speaking. Echoing what Steve Brine said earlier, he says the regulations are not clear enough about what counts as a suspected case of Omicron. Close contacts of suspected cases will have to isolate for up to 10 days. | In the Commons Mark Harper, chair of the lockdown-sceptic Tory Covid Recovery Group, is speaking. Echoing what Steve Brine said earlier, he says the regulations are not clear enough about what counts as a suspected case of Omicron. Close contacts of suspected cases will have to isolate for up to 10 days. |
| Harper is the fourth Conservative backbencher in a row to speak. That probably means there are no more opposition MPs who want to speak. Government supporters are notably absent from this debate too, and so the debate has been dominated by Tories critical of the government. | Harper is the fourth Conservative backbencher in a row to speak. That probably means there are no more opposition MPs who want to speak. Government supporters are notably absent from this debate too, and so the debate has been dominated by Tories critical of the government. |
| Craig Mackinlay spoke before Harper. He said he did not understand why the rules required someone to put on a mask to go into a shop - perhaps for a very brief period of time - to buy a bottle of alcohol, when they could subsequently go to a party with a large number of people where masks would not be required. | Craig Mackinlay spoke before Harper. He said he did not understand why the rules required someone to put on a mask to go into a shop - perhaps for a very brief period of time - to buy a bottle of alcohol, when they could subsequently go to a party with a large number of people where masks would not be required. |
| And, before Mackinlay, Huw Merriman told MPs that he was not against what the regulations were trying to achieve in principle. But they were badly drafted, he said. | And, before Mackinlay, Huw Merriman told MPs that he was not against what the regulations were trying to achieve in principle. But they were badly drafted, he said. |
| All nine cases of the Omicron variant in Scotland link to a “single private event” on 20 November, Nicola Sturgeon has told the Holyrood parliament in her weekly Covid update. | All nine cases of the Omicron variant in Scotland link to a “single private event” on 20 November, Nicola Sturgeon has told the Holyrood parliament in her weekly Covid update. |
| Five cases on the new variant in Lanarkshire and four in Greater Glasgow and Clyde health boards have so far been identified. | Five cases on the new variant in Lanarkshire and four in Greater Glasgow and Clyde health boards have so far been identified. |
| She added that none of the people who have tested positive have so far required hospital care and that none has recent travel history to, or known links with, others who have travelled to the countries in Southern Africa where the variant was originally detected. | She added that none of the people who have tested positive have so far required hospital care and that none has recent travel history to, or known links with, others who have travelled to the countries in Southern Africa where the variant was originally detected. |
| Sturgeon told MSPs that all nine were tested on and around 23 November. | Sturgeon told MSPs that all nine were tested on and around 23 November. |
| Sturgeon also told MSPs that her government did not plan to introduce new restrictions at this stage, pointing out that “some protections that the UK government has announced in recent days in relation to England - for example a requirement to wear face coverings in some settings – are already in place, and in fact more extensive, here in Scotland”. | Sturgeon also told MSPs that her government did not plan to introduce new restrictions at this stage, pointing out that “some protections that the UK government has announced in recent days in relation to England - for example a requirement to wear face coverings in some settings – are already in place, and in fact more extensive, here in Scotland”. |
| She said that instead the Scottish government was “asking people to significantly step up and increase compliance with existing protections – such as face coverings, hygiene, home working, ventilation, vaccination and regular testing”. | She said that instead the Scottish government was “asking people to significantly step up and increase compliance with existing protections – such as face coverings, hygiene, home working, ventilation, vaccination and regular testing”. |
| She added that her government’s view remained that travel rules should be tightened further on a four-nations basis. | She added that her government’s view remained that travel rules should be tightened further on a four-nations basis. |
| At her news conference in Cardiff, Eluned Morgan, the Welsh government’s health minister, said people should “take seriously” the threat of mixing at Christmas. | At her news conference in Cardiff, Eluned Morgan, the Welsh government’s health minister, said people should “take seriously” the threat of mixing at Christmas. |
| Aligning firmly with Jenny Harries (see 9.31am) rather than Boris Johnson (see 1.02pm), Morgan said: | Aligning firmly with Jenny Harries (see 9.31am) rather than Boris Johnson (see 1.02pm), Morgan said: |
| She also said she expected Omicron to turn up in Wales. “Omicron has not yet arrived in Wales, but it’s simply a question of time before it does,” she said. | She also said she expected Omicron to turn up in Wales. “Omicron has not yet arrived in Wales, but it’s simply a question of time before it does,” she said. |
| Asked if the government would consider a type of lockdown or firebreak should Omicron begin to spread rapidly, Morgan said it was “too early to say”. But she said the government had a responsibility to keep the country open. | Asked if the government would consider a type of lockdown or firebreak should Omicron begin to spread rapidly, Morgan said it was “too early to say”. But she said the government had a responsibility to keep the country open. |
| In the Commons Christopher Chope (Con) said he thought the new Covid rules were part of a “scaremongering propaganda campaign” designed to suppress freedom. | In the Commons Christopher Chope (Con) said he thought the new Covid rules were part of a “scaremongering propaganda campaign” designed to suppress freedom. |
| Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, told MPs this morning that parliament may still have the power to jail witnesses who refuse to appear before a select committee. | Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, told MPs this morning that parliament may still have the power to jail witnesses who refuse to appear before a select committee. |
| He was giving evidence to the Commons privileges committee, which is considering whether the rules should be clarified so that people who do refuse to appear before an inquiry can be fined. | He was giving evidence to the Commons privileges committee, which is considering whether the rules should be clarified so that people who do refuse to appear before an inquiry can be fined. |
| In the pre-democratic era the Commons could fine or imprison people for contempt of parliament, which might include ignoring a summons to attend. Most experts now believe that these powers have lapsed, which is why the committee is looking at whether legislation is need to ensure that people can be fined for boycotting a committee. | In the pre-democratic era the Commons could fine or imprison people for contempt of parliament, which might include ignoring a summons to attend. Most experts now believe that these powers have lapsed, which is why the committee is looking at whether legislation is need to ensure that people can be fined for boycotting a committee. |
| But Rees-Mogg said he thought parliament may still have these powers. He said: | But Rees-Mogg said he thought parliament may still have these powers. He said: |
| Chris Bryant, the Labour chair of the committee, said he was in “a bit of shock” to hear that Rees-Mogg thought parliament could still jail people. Bryant said he thought the Human Rights Act definitely made that impossible, and arguable the European Convention on Human Rights did too. | Chris Bryant, the Labour chair of the committee, said he was in “a bit of shock” to hear that Rees-Mogg thought parliament could still jail people. Bryant said he thought the Human Rights Act definitely made that impossible, and arguable the European Convention on Human Rights did too. |
| Rees-Mogg also said he thought it was “not unreasonable for the house to fine people for failing to attend [a committee hearing]”. | Rees-Mogg also said he thought it was “not unreasonable for the house to fine people for failing to attend [a committee hearing]”. |
| As PA Media reports, the last time someone was fined by parliament was in 1666 when Thomas White was told to pay 1,000, roughly 200,000 today, after he absconded. White had been ordered into the custody of parliament’s Serjeant at Arms for causing MP for Horsham Henry Chowne to be arrested and prevented from attending parliament. | As PA Media reports, the last time someone was fined by parliament was in 1666 when Thomas White was told to pay 1,000, roughly 200,000 today, after he absconded. White had been ordered into the custody of parliament’s Serjeant at Arms for causing MP for Horsham Henry Chowne to be arrested and prevented from attending parliament. |
| The power to imprison was last used in 1880 with the committal of a member, Charles Bradlaugh, and the imprisonment of a non-member Charles Grissell in the same year. | The power to imprison was last used in 1880 with the committal of a member, Charles Bradlaugh, and the imprisonment of a non-member Charles Grissell in the same year. |
| In the Commons Steve Brine (Con) quotes what Jenny Harries said on the Today programme this morning. (See 9.31am.) Brine, a former health minister, says Harries is a careful and professional civil servant. She does not say things off the cuff, he says. He says if Harries was not presenting the government’s position in that interview, the minister, Maggie Throup, should have said so from the despatch box. | In the Commons Steve Brine (Con) quotes what Jenny Harries said on the Today programme this morning. (See 9.31am.) Brine, a former health minister, says Harries is a careful and professional civil servant. She does not say things off the cuff, he says. He says if Harries was not presenting the government’s position in that interview, the minister, Maggie Throup, should have said so from the despatch box. |
| Brine also says he is concerned that the regulation saying close contacts of people testing positive with Omicron should have to isolate could mean that, if one pupil at school tests positive, the other 29 pupils in the class could be spent home. | Brine also says he is concerned that the regulation saying close contacts of people testing positive with Omicron should have to isolate could mean that, if one pupil at school tests positive, the other 29 pupils in the class could be spent home. |
| Mark Jenkinson (Con) intervenes, saying this could lead to “lockdown by default” as a result of the work of “activist directors of public health”. | Mark Jenkinson (Con) intervenes, saying this could lead to “lockdown by default” as a result of the work of “activist directors of public health”. |
| Brine welcomes the point. He says, before he votes for these measures, he wants to hear clarification of what “suspected case” means in the isolation regulations. He says there is “an element of the Salem witch trials about this”, because they could lead to people being told to isolate for no good reason. | Brine welcomes the point. He says, before he votes for these measures, he wants to hear clarification of what “suspected case” means in the isolation regulations. He says there is “an element of the Salem witch trials about this”, because they could lead to people being told to isolate for no good reason. |
| He also says that the regulations could have negative impact on confidence. He says the government is not telling people to cancel Christmas parties, but that is happening anyway. He says he knows of events being cancelled in his constituency. That is due to “the chilling effect of these regulations”, he says. | He also says that the regulations could have negative impact on confidence. He says the government is not telling people to cancel Christmas parties, but that is happening anyway. He says he knows of events being cancelled in his constituency. That is due to “the chilling effect of these regulations”, he says. |
| Back in the Commons Sir Graham Brady, chair of the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee, says the government should have let MPs debate these regulations before they came into force. | Back in the Commons Sir Graham Brady, chair of the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee, says the government should have let MPs debate these regulations before they came into force. |
| He echoes the concern expressed earlier (see 1.16pm) about the lack of an expiry date in the isolation regulations. And he says there are “very serious concerns about the efficacy of what is being proposed”. | He echoes the concern expressed earlier (see 1.16pm) about the lack of an expiry date in the isolation regulations. And he says there are “very serious concerns about the efficacy of what is being proposed”. |
| Dr Andrew Murrison (Con) says, although the government says it wants to avoid the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed, there is “no conceivable way” that could happen because 90% of the population have antibodies. | Dr Andrew Murrison (Con) says, although the government says it wants to avoid the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed, there is “no conceivable way” that could happen because 90% of the population have antibodies. |
| Brady agrees, pointing out that Murrison is medically qualified. | Brady agrees, pointing out that Murrison is medically qualified. |
| Sir Desmond Swayne (Con) intervenes to say the danger with the current plans is that they could trigger another “pingdemic”. | Sir Desmond Swayne (Con) intervenes to say the danger with the current plans is that they could trigger another “pingdemic”. |
| Schools in England have seen a significant jump in Covid-related absence, according to the government’s attendance data. | Schools in England have seen a significant jump in Covid-related absence, according to the government’s attendance data. |
| As concerns about the new Omicron mutation grows, Department for Education statistics show that attendance in state schools has fallen from 91.5% to 89.3% over the space of a fortnight. | As concerns about the new Omicron mutation grows, Department for Education statistics show that attendance in state schools has fallen from 91.5% to 89.3% over the space of a fortnight. |
| Around 208,000 pupils (2.6%) were off for Covid-related reasons on 25 November, up sharply from 130,000 (1.6%) two weeks earlier on 11 November. | Around 208,000 pupils (2.6%) were off for Covid-related reasons on 25 November, up sharply from 130,000 (1.6%) two weeks earlier on 11 November. |
| These included 79,000 suspected cases of coronavirus, up from 50,000, and 106,000 with a confirmed case of Covid, up from 67,000 two weeks earlier. | These included 79,000 suspected cases of coronavirus, up from 50,000, and 106,000 with a confirmed case of Covid, up from 67,000 two weeks earlier. |
| Covid-related absence in schools dropped following the half-term break last month, but the reprieve was short-lived, said Paul Whiteman, general secretary of the NAHT school leaders’ union. He said: | Covid-related absence in schools dropped following the half-term break last month, but the reprieve was short-lived, said Paul Whiteman, general secretary of the NAHT school leaders’ union. He said: |
| Geoff Barton, the general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, expressed concern about increased rates of absence among staff, with around 2% of teachers and school leaders absent due to Covid-related reasons last Thursday, up from 1.4% a fortnight earlier. He said: | Geoff Barton, the general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, expressed concern about increased rates of absence among staff, with around 2% of teachers and school leaders absent due to Covid-related reasons last Thursday, up from 1.4% a fortnight earlier. He said: |
| Downing Street has said that today’s press conference with Boris Johnson will take place at 4pm. | Downing Street has said that today’s press conference with Boris Johnson will take place at 4pm. |
| Alex Norris, a shadow health minister, is responding for Labour. He says Labour supports the two regulations being passed (covering the rules on face coverings, and the rules on isolating for close contacts of Omicron cases). He says in the past Labour criticised the government for acting slowly, and so he is glad that is not happening now. | Alex Norris, a shadow health minister, is responding for Labour. He says Labour supports the two regulations being passed (covering the rules on face coverings, and the rules on isolating for close contacts of Omicron cases). He says in the past Labour criticised the government for acting slowly, and so he is glad that is not happening now. |
| Mark Harper (Con) intervenes, and points out that yesterday he asked for an assurance from the government (which he did not get) that if the measures need to be extended over Christmas, parliament will be recalled from recess so MPs can get a vote. Would Labour back a recall in those circumstances? Norris says he will not comment on a hypothetical question, but he says he favours regulations getting proper scrutiny. | Mark Harper (Con) intervenes, and points out that yesterday he asked for an assurance from the government (which he did not get) that if the measures need to be extended over Christmas, parliament will be recalled from recess so MPs can get a vote. Would Labour back a recall in those circumstances? Norris says he will not comment on a hypothetical question, but he says he favours regulations getting proper scrutiny. |
| In the Commons Mark Harper makes another intervention. He says the regulations being passed today on face masks expire on 20 December, but that regulation requiring close contacts of people who have tested positive for Omicron do not have a specific expiry date, which means they will run until the main statutory instrument relating to isolation expires in March 2022. | In the Commons Mark Harper makes another intervention. He says the regulations being passed today on face masks expire on 20 December, but that regulation requiring close contacts of people who have tested positive for Omicron do not have a specific expiry date, which means they will run until the main statutory instrument relating to isolation expires in March 2022. |
| Throup tells Harper he is making a very good point. Ministers will keep the house informed, she says. She says the regulations will not be kept in place any longer than necessary. | Throup tells Harper he is making a very good point. Ministers will keep the house informed, she says. She says the regulations will not be kept in place any longer than necessary. |
| In the Commons Maggie Throup, a health minister, is opening the debate on the new Covid restrictions. And she is already running into trouble over Jenny Harries. | In the Commons Maggie Throup, a health minister, is opening the debate on the new Covid restrictions. And she is already running into trouble over Jenny Harries. |
| Three of the most lockdown-sceptic Tory MPs - Sir Desmond Swayne, Mark Harper and Steve Baker - have challenged her over what Harries said this morning. They wanted her to explicitly reject what Harries said. | Three of the most lockdown-sceptic Tory MPs - Sir Desmond Swayne, Mark Harper and Steve Baker - have challenged her over what Harries said this morning. They wanted her to explicitly reject what Harries said. |
| Throup defended the government’s measures, but she would not explicitly reject Harries’ call for people to avoid unnecessary socialising - even when it was put to her that Boris Johnson himself said it was not the government’s position. It sounded as if Throup was not aware of the latest comments coming from No 10 (see 12.23pm) and from the PM (see 1.02pm). | Throup defended the government’s measures, but she would not explicitly reject Harries’ call for people to avoid unnecessary socialising - even when it was put to her that Boris Johnson himself said it was not the government’s position. It sounded as if Throup was not aware of the latest comments coming from No 10 (see 12.23pm) and from the PM (see 1.02pm). |
| Labour’s Rachael Maskell said that the government should be listening to Harries’s advice because she is a “public health professional and therefore really does understand what public health measures need to be taken to secure our well being against this pandemic”. | Labour’s Rachael Maskell said that the government should be listening to Harries’s advice because she is a “public health professional and therefore really does understand what public health measures need to be taken to secure our well being against this pandemic”. |
| UPDATE: This is from my colleague Aubrey Allegretti. | UPDATE: This is from my colleague Aubrey Allegretti. |
| Here is the full quote from Baker. He said: | Here is the full quote from Baker. He said: |
| Throup replied: | Throup replied: |
| Boris Johnson has said that there is no need for people to change their plans for meeting up with people, or for travel, in the run-up to Christmas. | Boris Johnson has said that there is no need for people to change their plans for meeting up with people, or for travel, in the run-up to Christmas. |
| In an interview with Sky’s Sam Coates, Johnson was asked if people should modify their behaviour - for example, by avoiding school nativity plays, or cancelling foreign holidays - over the next few weeks. Johnson replied: | In an interview with Sky’s Sam Coates, Johnson was asked if people should modify their behaviour - for example, by avoiding school nativity plays, or cancelling foreign holidays - over the next few weeks. Johnson replied: |
| When asked why, if that was the case, Dr Jenny Harries said this morning that people should avoid unnecessary socialising (see 9.31am), Johnson implied that she was just urging people to be sensible. He said: | When asked why, if that was the case, Dr Jenny Harries said this morning that people should avoid unnecessary socialising (see 9.31am), Johnson implied that she was just urging people to be sensible. He said: |
| Actually, what Harries was saying went a bit beyond that. | Actually, what Harries was saying went a bit beyond that. |
| Johnson went on: | Johnson went on: |