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| Are patients safer after Shipman? | Are patients safer after Shipman? |
| (31 minutes later) | |
| Ann Alexander Presenter, Could Shipman Happen Again?, BBC Radio 4 | Ann Alexander Presenter, Could Shipman Happen Again?, BBC Radio 4 |
| "I spoke to Dr Shipman, I can't really remember what he said because I was so distressed, but he did imply that my mother had been ill, she'd been to see him the day before, he'd been to see her that day, and she had died after he left, and I was kind of comforted by that." | "I spoke to Dr Shipman, I can't really remember what he said because I was so distressed, but he did imply that my mother had been ill, she'd been to see him the day before, he'd been to see her that day, and she had died after he left, and I was kind of comforted by that." |
| Angela Woodruff remembers the sudden death of her mother Kathleen Grundy in June 1998. A former mayoress of Hyde, near Manchester, she was just one of Harold Shipman's many victims. | Angela Woodruff remembers the sudden death of her mother Kathleen Grundy in June 1998. A former mayoress of Hyde, near Manchester, she was just one of Harold Shipman's many victims. |
| Impossible to imagine now, at the time, Dr Shipman was a highly regarded and well-liked doctor. "My mother thought he was wonderful," says Angela Woodruff. | Impossible to imagine now, at the time, Dr Shipman was a highly regarded and well-liked doctor. "My mother thought he was wonderful," says Angela Woodruff. |
| Paul Horrocks, editor of the Manchester Evening News, recalls his reporters being insulted and spat at by a community which could not believe that Dr Shipman could have harmed anybody. | Paul Horrocks, editor of the Manchester Evening News, recalls his reporters being insulted and spat at by a community which could not believe that Dr Shipman could have harmed anybody. |
| 'Fundamentally flawed' | 'Fundamentally flawed' |
| It is now 10 years since the family doctor was charged with the murder of 15 of his patients. | It is now 10 years since the family doctor was charged with the murder of 15 of his patients. |
| In fact Shipman had used loopholes in the medical system to kill more than 215 of his patients, successfully avoiding detection for many years. | In fact Shipman had used loopholes in the medical system to kill more than 215 of his patients, successfully avoiding detection for many years. |
| The health service is a remarkably inert tanker, and turning it around in any way is very difficult Laurence Buckman, BMA Shipman response not quick enough The subsequent four-year public inquiry, which was chaired by senior judge Dame Janet Smith, exposed many serious deficiencies and led to recommendations concerned with preventing another serial killer. | The health service is a remarkably inert tanker, and turning it around in any way is very difficult Laurence Buckman, BMA Shipman response not quick enough The subsequent four-year public inquiry, which was chaired by senior judge Dame Janet Smith, exposed many serious deficiencies and led to recommendations concerned with preventing another serial killer. |
| But it also identified a need for significant change in attitudes, in systems and in practice, to better protect patients. | But it also identified a need for significant change in attitudes, in systems and in practice, to better protect patients. |
| The doctors' regulatory body, the General Medical Council (GMC) came in for savage criticism, described by Dame Janet Smith as "fundamentally flawed". | The doctors' regulatory body, the General Medical Council (GMC) came in for savage criticism, described by Dame Janet Smith as "fundamentally flawed". |
| A decade after the deaths first came to light, has enough been done to put things right? | A decade after the deaths first came to light, has enough been done to put things right? |
| Finlay Scott, chief executive of the GMC, told the BBC: "We've driven through a fundamental programme of reform which has enabled us to deliver our statutory purpose, to protect, promote and maintain the health and safety of the public". | Finlay Scott, chief executive of the GMC, told the BBC: "We've driven through a fundamental programme of reform which has enabled us to deliver our statutory purpose, to protect, promote and maintain the health and safety of the public". |
| LISTEN TO THE PROGRAMME Could Shipman Happen Again? BBC Radio 4 on Thursday, 12 February at 2000 GMTOr listen again via the BBC iPlayer He highlights "revalidation" - a kind of MOT for doctors - which will begin to be rolled out across the profession later this year. | |
| This will, he believes, "produce positive assurance that licensed doctors are up-to-date and fit to practise". | This will, he believes, "produce positive assurance that licensed doctors are up-to-date and fit to practise". |
| But he acknowledges the limitations of the new system to stop another Shipman. | But he acknowledges the limitations of the new system to stop another Shipman. |
| "It's seductive - and dangerously so - to imagine that revalidation is designed to deal with those extreme cases. It is not." | "It's seductive - and dangerously so - to imagine that revalidation is designed to deal with those extreme cases. It is not." |
| Deliberate harm | Deliberate harm |
| Aneez Esmail, professor of general practice at the University of Manchester, fears that the profession is not doing enough to ensure that the doctors of tomorrow - school children at the time of Shipman's arrest - understand the implications of what happened. | Aneez Esmail, professor of general practice at the University of Manchester, fears that the profession is not doing enough to ensure that the doctors of tomorrow - school children at the time of Shipman's arrest - understand the implications of what happened. |
| "I went to talk to the medical students in Liverpool last month [about Shipman]," he says. | "I went to talk to the medical students in Liverpool last month [about Shipman]," he says. |
| "What really worried me was firstly how little people knew about him, and I find this incredible. Here is a doctor that should stand out as something we all have to know about⦠because this is what happened on our watch, our profession. | "What really worried me was firstly how little people knew about him, and I find this incredible. Here is a doctor that should stand out as something we all have to know about⦠because this is what happened on our watch, our profession. |
| "I think there should be a compulsory module on what went wrong and why it went wrong, and what it means for us as doctors in the future," he added. | "I think there should be a compulsory module on what went wrong and why it went wrong, and what it means for us as doctors in the future," he added. |
| Dr Shipman under police questioning | Dr Shipman under police questioning |
| While there has not been another scandal on the scale of Shipman, can we really be certain that enough is being done to protect patients from healthcare professionals who are intent upon causing deliberate harm? | While there has not been another scandal on the scale of Shipman, can we really be certain that enough is being done to protect patients from healthcare professionals who are intent upon causing deliberate harm? |
| Another disturbing case will hit the headlines next month. An inquest in Hampshire will investigate 10 suspicious deaths involving the alleged overuse of drugs like diamorphine at the Gosport War Memorial Hospital. | Another disturbing case will hit the headlines next month. An inquest in Hampshire will investigate 10 suspicious deaths involving the alleged overuse of drugs like diamorphine at the Gosport War Memorial Hospital. |
| It follows a series of police investigations over a number of years and yet it was only in July last year that the GMC imposed restrictions on one doctor concerned. | It follows a series of police investigations over a number of years and yet it was only in July last year that the GMC imposed restrictions on one doctor concerned. |
| These are not the only cases. Less than a year ago, a nurse was convicted of murdering patients in his care at two hospitals in Leeds, while a care home worker was charged with a similar offence in January. | These are not the only cases. Less than a year ago, a nurse was convicted of murdering patients in his care at two hospitals in Leeds, while a care home worker was charged with a similar offence in January. |
| Delay | Delay |
| In the same month the government published the Coroners and Justice Bill. It should finally address weaknesses that the government admits have become increasingly evident over the last 20 years. | In the same month the government published the Coroners and Justice Bill. It should finally address weaknesses that the government admits have become increasingly evident over the last 20 years. |
| Justice minister Bridget Prentice told the BBC she believes "the possibility of something as horrific as Shipman will have very, very little chance of happening again". | Justice minister Bridget Prentice told the BBC she believes "the possibility of something as horrific as Shipman will have very, very little chance of happening again". |
| And yet the much anticipated reform of the process for death certification has been left to secondary legislation. Defects in the current system helped Shipman's crimes remain undetected. And it is this reform which could make a very significant contribution to public health. | And yet the much anticipated reform of the process for death certification has been left to secondary legislation. Defects in the current system helped Shipman's crimes remain undetected. And it is this reform which could make a very significant contribution to public health. |
| Bridget Prentice accepts that with hindsight it is "unfortunate" that this single issue was not separated out and introduced sooner. | Bridget Prentice accepts that with hindsight it is "unfortunate" that this single issue was not separated out and introduced sooner. |
| Laurence Buckman is chair of the GP's Committee at the British Medical Association (BMA). He offers this explanation for the delay: | Laurence Buckman is chair of the GP's Committee at the British Medical Association (BMA). He offers this explanation for the delay: |
| "The health service is a remarkably inert tanker, and turning it around in any way is very difficult, and unfortunately politics gets in the way too," he told the BBC. | "The health service is a remarkably inert tanker, and turning it around in any way is very difficult, and unfortunately politics gets in the way too," he told the BBC. |
| "I think that has been quite challenging in getting everybody to see that improving standards of care for patients is something everybody should want to do, not that it is part of a Shipman related activity," he added. | "I think that has been quite challenging in getting everybody to see that improving standards of care for patients is something everybody should want to do, not that it is part of a Shipman related activity," he added. |
| Ann Alexander is a former solicitor who represented the families of a number of Harold Shipman's victims. She presents Could Shipman Happen Again? on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday 12 February at 2000 GMT. Or listen again via the BBC iPlayer. | Ann Alexander is a former solicitor who represented the families of a number of Harold Shipman's victims. She presents Could Shipman Happen Again? on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday 12 February at 2000 GMT. Or listen again via the BBC iPlayer. |