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| Waiting for the women bishops | Waiting for the women bishops |
| (1 day later) | |
| By Trevor Timpson BBC News St Nicholas's rector Angus MacLeay (inset) insists: "We are loyal Anglicans" | |
| The debate on whether to appoint women bishops returns to the Church of England's General Synod this week. | |
| The parishes of the pretty Kent commuter town of Sevenoaks will send four delegates to the Synod, and Anglicans in the town hold a wide range of views on the women bishops issue.The parishes of Sevenoaks | The parishes of the pretty Kent commuter town of Sevenoaks will send four delegates to the Synod, and Anglicans in the town hold a wide range of views on the women bishops issue.The parishes of Sevenoaks |
| "Certainly I am very well aware that at the end of the road we will have women bishops," says the Reverend Angus MacLeay, "But the real question is - what sort of a church will we have?" | |
| Mr MacLeay is rector of the ancient parish church of St Nicholas, a General Synod member, and a trustee of Reform, the main evangelical group opposed to women bishops. | |
| "People like myself, our position hasn't changed - it would be very sad if suddenly we're being redefined as no longer being loyal Anglicans when we've simply been faithful to the scriptures," he says. | "People like myself, our position hasn't changed - it would be very sad if suddenly we're being redefined as no longer being loyal Anglicans when we've simply been faithful to the scriptures," he says. |
| Evangelicals - like the big enthusiastic congregations at St Nicholas - place little stress on ceremony, but are deeply sincere in seeking guidance from the Bible. | Evangelicals - like the big enthusiastic congregations at St Nicholas - place little stress on ceremony, but are deeply sincere in seeking guidance from the Bible. |
| Those who oppose women's ordination point to I Timothy 2, 12: "I do not allow a woman to have authority over a man." | Those who oppose women's ordination point to I Timothy 2, 12: "I do not allow a woman to have authority over a man." |
| The Anglo-Catholics within the Church of England have a different emphasis. They profoundly revere the sacraments - the ceremonies of the Church - and the blessings imparted by them. | The Anglo-Catholics within the Church of England have a different emphasis. They profoundly revere the sacraments - the ceremonies of the Church - and the blessings imparted by them. |
| Many cannot accept that it is possible for a woman to be a priest or perform the sacraments. A man ordained by a woman bishop would not be a priest either, in their eyes. We are not here to throw people out, to make them uncomfortable - but we are here." The Reverend Anne Le Bas | Many cannot accept that it is possible for a woman to be a priest or perform the sacraments. A man ordained by a woman bishop would not be a priest either, in their eyes. We are not here to throw people out, to make them uncomfortable - but we are here." The Reverend Anne Le Bas |
| Less than a mile north of St Nicholas is the exquisite 150-year-old Anglo-Catholic church of St John the Baptist. | Less than a mile north of St Nicholas is the exquisite 150-year-old Anglo-Catholic church of St John the Baptist. |
| Its vicar, Father Ivan Aquilina, fears that supporters of women bishops will not allow proper protection for clergy and parishes who feel as he does. | Its vicar, Father Ivan Aquilina, fears that supporters of women bishops will not allow proper protection for clergy and parishes who feel as he does. |
| "It's like saying to me, 'Look, I'm happy for you to live in this house but you're not allowed water supply, electricity or heating - but you're really welcome to stay," he says. | "It's like saying to me, 'Look, I'm happy for you to live in this house but you're not allowed water supply, electricity or heating - but you're really welcome to stay," he says. |
| At present St John's comes under a "flying bishop" opposed to women priests, appointed by the diocesan Bishop of Rochester to act for him. | At present St John's comes under a "flying bishop" opposed to women priests, appointed by the diocesan Bishop of Rochester to act for him. |
| But in future, the Bishop of Rochester may be a woman. | But in future, the Bishop of Rochester may be a woman. |
| "How can my bishop receive jurisdiction from a lady who thinks she's a bishop, when she isn't?" asks Fr Aquilina. | "How can my bishop receive jurisdiction from a lady who thinks she's a bishop, when she isn't?" asks Fr Aquilina. |
| 'Move on' | 'Move on' |
| Others feel that the present situation cannot continue for ever. | Others feel that the present situation cannot continue for ever. |
| On the northern outskirts of Sevenoaks are the village and the lovely old church of Seal. | On the northern outskirts of Sevenoaks are the village and the lovely old church of Seal. |
| The priest-in-charge, the Reverend Anne Le Bas, says she can understand why the views of Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical opponents were so important to them. | The priest-in-charge, the Reverend Anne Le Bas, says she can understand why the views of Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical opponents were so important to them. |
| "I couldn't sit there and say to my neighbouring parish of St John's 'You don't matter; I don't want you in the Church'. | "I couldn't sit there and say to my neighbouring parish of St John's 'You don't matter; I don't want you in the Church'. |
| "I think that goes for many women priests. | "I think that goes for many women priests. |
| "We are not here to throw people out, to make them uncomfortable - but we are here. | "We are not here to throw people out, to make them uncomfortable - but we are here. |
| I think a lot of people who are in the Anglican Catholic 'thing' have thought about Rome and decided they are Anglicans Jim Cheeseman | I think a lot of people who are in the Anglican Catholic 'thing' have thought about Rome and decided they are Anglicans Jim Cheeseman |
| "We have this desire to move on together if we can. | "We have this desire to move on together if we can. |
| "It's the 'If we can' which is the difficulty." | "It's the 'If we can' which is the difficulty." |
| The proposal before the Synod envisages a code of practice allowing a woman diocesan bishop to appoint a "complementary bishop" to look after parishes unwilling to accept her care. | The proposal before the Synod envisages a code of practice allowing a woman diocesan bishop to appoint a "complementary bishop" to look after parishes unwilling to accept her care. |
| Anglo-Catholics who oppose women's ordination have said a code of practice will not do, and demand protection enshrined in law. | Anglo-Catholics who oppose women's ordination have said a code of practice will not do, and demand protection enshrined in law. |
| "It needs to be a structural solution where we have the right to live and not just be tolerated... we need to sit round a table and we need to have guarantees," says Fr Aquilina. | "It needs to be a structural solution where we have the right to live and not just be tolerated... we need to sit round a table and we need to have guarantees," says Fr Aquilina. |
| For Anne Le Bas, the proposed code is "probably as good as it's going to get" - but she believes it still discriminates against women. | For Anne Le Bas, the proposed code is "probably as good as it's going to get" - but she believes it still discriminates against women. |
| Angus MacLeay at St Nicholas says: "Whenever you have something which is simply a code of practice it can be followed in varying degrees - in good faith - by people. | |
| More TEA? | More TEA? |
| "But if you have got a statutory code of practice or statutory provision just everybody knows exactly where they stand." | "But if you have got a statutory code of practice or statutory provision just everybody knows exactly where they stand." |
| He says Transferred Episcopal Arrangements (known as TEA) with the force of law should be considered - requiring a female bishop to transfer her powers to a complementary bishop for parishes who ask for this. | He says Transferred Episcopal Arrangements (known as TEA) with the force of law should be considered - requiring a female bishop to transfer her powers to a complementary bishop for parishes who ask for this. |
| The female bishop in that situation would feel "understandably concerned and slighted" that their powers were being removed, Mr MacLeay admits. | |
| If there were a female diocesan bishop and no provision for opponents, that would put them in a very difficult position, he warns. | If there were a female diocesan bishop and no provision for opponents, that would put them in a very difficult position, he warns. |
| But he adds: "We are loyal Anglicans who delight to serve Sevenoaks and the Gospel. | But he adds: "We are loyal Anglicans who delight to serve Sevenoaks and the Gospel. |
| "I don't think anybody is seriously thinking of moving out of the Anglican Church." | "I don't think anybody is seriously thinking of moving out of the Anglican Church." |
| Many Anglo-Catholic clergy did leave, to become Roman Catholics, when women priests were approved.Opponents of women bishops "will need guarantees" says Fr Aquilina | Many Anglo-Catholic clergy did leave, to become Roman Catholics, when women priests were approved.Opponents of women bishops "will need guarantees" says Fr Aquilina |
| Fr Aquilina says clergy are free to leave for Rome, but adds: "The fact that we are still here is because we believe that God has called us to be in this time and place." | Fr Aquilina says clergy are free to leave for Rome, but adds: "The fact that we are still here is because we believe that God has called us to be in this time and place." |
| However, he insists: "If the Church of England makes it impossible for us then I think no-one would blame us if we ask help... many of us believe in the universal primacy of the bishop of Rome and I think we need to ask for help and guidance." | However, he insists: "If the Church of England makes it impossible for us then I think no-one would blame us if we ask help... many of us believe in the universal primacy of the bishop of Rome and I think we need to ask for help and guidance." |
| Jim Cheeseman, a parishioner of St John's and a member of the General Synod, opposes plans for women bishops. | Jim Cheeseman, a parishioner of St John's and a member of the General Synod, opposes plans for women bishops. |
| But he says: "I think a lot of people who are in the Anglican Catholic 'thing' have thought about Rome and decided they are Anglicans." | But he says: "I think a lot of people who are in the Anglican Catholic 'thing' have thought about Rome and decided they are Anglicans." |
| Nor does he think further compromise on women bishops is ruled out: "If it goes through as it is now - I should think that is about as probable as my becoming prime minister." | Nor does he think further compromise on women bishops is ruled out: "If it goes through as it is now - I should think that is about as probable as my becoming prime minister." |
| Defining issue | Defining issue |
| Everyone I spoke to in the churches of Sevenoaks insisted that the proper business of the Church was showing the love of Jesus, not arguing over politics. | Everyone I spoke to in the churches of Sevenoaks insisted that the proper business of the Church was showing the love of Jesus, not arguing over politics. |
| On the west side of the town is St Luke's, a little brick-built gem of a church. | On the west side of the town is St Luke's, a little brick-built gem of a church. |
| Its vicar, the Rev Mark Griffin, has always supported calls for women bishops. | Its vicar, the Rev Mark Griffin, has always supported calls for women bishops. |
| But he says the "defining issue" for the Church is "about being a Church within the community. | But he says the "defining issue" for the Church is "about being a Church within the community. |
| "It is important to listen to the views of those who are fervently for [appointing women bishops] as much as for those who are against it. | "It is important to listen to the views of those who are fervently for [appointing women bishops] as much as for those who are against it. |
| "Things may move slowly - but there is a sort of discerning, and a wisdom in that." Return to top | "Things may move slowly - but there is a sort of discerning, and a wisdom in that." Return to top |
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