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A sister's long fight for justice A sister's long fight for justice
(about 4 hours later)
Fergal Keane Presenter, BBC Radio 4: Taking a Stand Catherine McCartney's campaign for justice led to threats against her familyFor many families in Northern Ireland the ending of the Troubles has not brought with it either justice for their murdered loved ones or emotional closure for the loss they suffered.Fergal Keane Presenter, BBC Radio 4: Taking a Stand Catherine McCartney's campaign for justice led to threats against her familyFor many families in Northern Ireland the ending of the Troubles has not brought with it either justice for their murdered loved ones or emotional closure for the loss they suffered.
Instead as the political process has moved forward, the stories of those whose relatives were killed have faded into the background.Instead as the political process has moved forward, the stories of those whose relatives were killed have faded into the background.
Catherine McCartney from Belfast understands this more than most. Her brother Robert, aged 33, was stabbed to death near a Belfast bar in 2005 by a group of IRA men.Catherine McCartney from Belfast understands this more than most. Her brother Robert, aged 33, was stabbed to death near a Belfast bar in 2005 by a group of IRA men.
The attack happened when the IRA was committed to peace. Robert McCartney and some friends had clashed with the IRA group in the bar and argument spilled over onto the streets outside.The attack happened when the IRA was committed to peace. Robert McCartney and some friends had clashed with the IRA group in the bar and argument spilled over onto the streets outside.
ForensicForensic
"I got a call the following morning around 7 o'clock to say that basically he had an hour to live."I got a call the following morning around 7 o'clock to say that basically he had an hour to live.
"He'd been in hospital all night. The doctors had been working on him. But my aunt then rang to say that the doctors had said that there was nothing more that they could do," she remembers."He'd been in hospital all night. The doctors had been working on him. But my aunt then rang to say that the doctors had said that there was nothing more that they could do," she remembers.
"Other members - cousins, aunts - people just standing around in like a daze. It was like surreal, just walking into a situation you'd just never have imagined.""Other members - cousins, aunts - people just standing around in like a daze. It was like surreal, just walking into a situation you'd just never have imagined."
BBC RADIO 4: TAKING A STAND BBC Radio 4's Taking a Stand profiles people who have taken risks and made sacrifices to stand up for what they believe inListen to Fergal Keane's interview with Catherine McCartney on the BBC iPlayer Catherine later learned that the row in the bar had erupted after one of the Republicans claimed that Robert had made a rude gesture towards his wife. BBC RADIO 4: TAKING A STAND BBC Radio 4's Taking a Stand profiles people who have taken risks and made sacrifices to stand up for what they believe in.Listen to Fergal Keane's interview with Catherine McCartney on the BBC iPlayer Catherine later learned that the row in the bar had erupted after one of the Republicans claimed that Robert had made a rude gesture towards his wife.
There was fighting in the bar, but Robert was fatally stabbed after being pursued down the street by a group of men.There was fighting in the bar, but Robert was fatally stabbed after being pursued down the street by a group of men.
But even as the violence was continuing, an IRA team was erasing all forensic evidence from the bar. This was only the beginning, Catherine says, of an operation to frustrate any prosecution.But even as the violence was continuing, an IRA team was erasing all forensic evidence from the bar. This was only the beginning, Catherine says, of an operation to frustrate any prosecution.
"On the morning that Robert died, the names of the people involved were going round the district. Everybody knew the names."On the morning that Robert died, the names of the people involved were going round the district. Everybody knew the names.
"The police knew the names and within the space of a couple of days, they were arresting people."The police knew the names and within the space of a couple of days, they were arresting people.
"And then they were releasing people and they then told us, confirmed to us about how meticulous the clean up had been; how the people weren't speaking and about the intimidation of the witnesses.""And then they were releasing people and they then told us, confirmed to us about how meticulous the clean up had been; how the people weren't speaking and about the intimidation of the witnesses."
Even some close friends of Robert's who were present that night were refusing to speak to police.Even some close friends of Robert's who were present that night were refusing to speak to police.
But within a week Catherine and her sister Paula had decided they would take a stand against the intimidation.But within a week Catherine and her sister Paula had decided they would take a stand against the intimidation.
LettersLetters
They contacted the media and began a high profile campaign that would eventually catch the attention of the Bush White House, where they were invited as guests for the St Patrick's Day celebrations.They contacted the media and began a high profile campaign that would eventually catch the attention of the Bush White House, where they were invited as guests for the St Patrick's Day celebrations.
It was a visit whose political significance was highlighted by the fact that Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was excluded from the guest list.It was a visit whose political significance was highlighted by the fact that Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams was excluded from the guest list.
"I think the message came across in America that Robert's murder wasn't anything to do with politics; that the IRA were becoming like a mafia type of gang."I think the message came across in America that Robert's murder wasn't anything to do with politics; that the IRA were becoming like a mafia type of gang.
"I think the Irish Americans were receptive to that and that is probably because also of their own experience of 9/11."I think the Irish Americans were receptive to that and that is probably because also of their own experience of 9/11.
The McCartney family's campaign took them to the White House "You can talk about political violence and people fighting wars for freedom or whatever, but when it comes to your own door and you see the human cost of that, I think that changes people's perception."The McCartney family's campaign took them to the White House "You can talk about political violence and people fighting wars for freedom or whatever, but when it comes to your own door and you see the human cost of that, I think that changes people's perception."
But there was a price to pay for confronting the IRA in this way.But there was a price to pay for confronting the IRA in this way.
The McCartney family were ostracised and suffered intimidation. Robert's widow Bridgeen was also targeted.The McCartney family were ostracised and suffered intimidation. Robert's widow Bridgeen was also targeted.
"After the trip to America, the threats became more intense against us. We had been receiving hate mail letters, things like that. Bridgeen in particular was receiving particularly nasty ones in terms of her children - excrement on letters and stuff."After the trip to America, the threats became more intense against us. We had been receiving hate mail letters, things like that. Bridgeen in particular was receiving particularly nasty ones in terms of her children - excrement on letters and stuff.
"There was then bomb scares to Bridgeen's home and to Paula's home. The police had to come out and inform us that what they called 'criminal gangs' were threatening to burn down our properties.""There was then bomb scares to Bridgeen's home and to Paula's home. The police had to come out and inform us that what they called 'criminal gangs' were threatening to burn down our properties."
Several men were arrested, but the prosecutions ultimately failed leaving the McCartney's frustrated and angry.Several men were arrested, but the prosecutions ultimately failed leaving the McCartney's frustrated and angry.
It was only until that happened to Robert, I really saw my own community for … for the first time, you know." Catherine McCartney For Paula it meant coming to terms with the idea of leaving the place where she had grown up.It was only until that happened to Robert, I really saw my own community for … for the first time, you know." Catherine McCartney For Paula it meant coming to terms with the idea of leaving the place where she had grown up.
As a child in a Republican Belfast she had once looked at the IRA as the protectors of the community. Not anymore.As a child in a Republican Belfast she had once looked at the IRA as the protectors of the community. Not anymore.
"When we were growing up, they made it very clear what it was about. If we got the British out of Ireland, we would be living in this free and equal society and all of that, which was all, yes, very idealistic."When we were growing up, they made it very clear what it was about. If we got the British out of Ireland, we would be living in this free and equal society and all of that, which was all, yes, very idealistic.
"But three and a half thousand people or more in their graves, I don't know really. I'm a bit confused on that, what was it all about?"But three and a half thousand people or more in their graves, I don't know really. I'm a bit confused on that, what was it all about?
"We were just brought up in a very… well I suppose it was a conflict society, but you looked through these other people's glasses. It was only until that happened to Robert, I really saw my own community for … for the first time, you know."
BBC Radio 4's Taking a Stand profiles people who have taken risks and made sacrifices to stand up for what they believe in.		"We were just brought up in a very… well I suppose it was a conflict society, but you looked through these other people's glasses. It was only until that happened to Robert, I really saw my own community for … for the first time, you know."
BBC Radio 4's Taking a Stand profiles people who have taken risks and made sacrifices to stand up for what they believe in.
This edition of Radio 4's Taking a Stand, featuring Fergal Keane's interview with Catherine McCartney was first broadcast at 09.00 GMT on Tuesday, 20 January 2009. You can listen to the programme on the BBC iPlayer.This edition of Radio 4's Taking a Stand, featuring Fergal Keane's interview with Catherine McCartney was first broadcast at 09.00 GMT on Tuesday, 20 January 2009. You can listen to the programme on the BBC iPlayer.