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In Tense Exchange, Trump and Macron Put Forth Dueling Visions for NATO In Tense Exchange, Trump and Macron Put Forth Dueling Visions for NATO
(about 3 hours later)
LONDON — A once-cordial relationship between President Trump and President Emmanuel Macron of France devolved in a dramatic fashion on Tuesday, as the two leaders publicly sparred over their approach to containing the threat of terrorism and a shared vision for the future of NATO, a 70-year-old alliance facing existential threats on multiple fronts. LONDON — President Trump sat down in a gilded chair beside President Emmanuel Macron of France on Tuesday, prepared for what has become a ritual of sorts on his home turf at the White House: He holds forth as another leader is left to smile stoically through his jokes, jabs and insults.
In a lengthy appearance before reporters, the president met a cool reception from Mr. Macron, whom earlier in the day Mr. Trump had derided as “very insulting” for his recent remarks on the “brain death” of the alliance. When asked to address his earlier comments on the French leader, Mr. Trump, a leader averse to face-to-face confrontation, initially demurred, but Mr. Macron was direct. But Mr. Macron changed the script. By the time their 45-minute appearance at the American ambassador’s residence in London was over, the French leader had managed a rare role reversal, putting Mr. Trump on the defensive about his vision for NATO and his handling of a military conflict involving Turkey, and swatting away the president’s joke about sending Islamic State fighters from Syria to France.
“Would you like some nice ISIS fighters?” Mr. Trump said, crouching forward and claiming that “many” fighters had come from France. “I can give them to you.”
“Let’s be serious,” Mr. Macron, who sat coiled on the edge of his seat with one hand clamped firmly on his knee, replied. “The very large numbers of fighters on the ground are the fighters coming from Syria, from Iraq.”
The dramatic moment, which came as both leaders were in London to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the NATO alliance, underscored how a relationship formerly known for lingering hugs, lint-brushing and white-knuckle handshakes has devolved over divisions on matters ranging from terrorism to trade policy.
This time, the deterioration took place on live television.
“The president doesn’t like confrontation in person and doesn’t quite know how to react to being on the receiving end,” said Heather A. Conley, director of the Europe program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Macron understands that. He’s decided the best defense is offense.”
Throughout the day, Mr. Trump made news on a number of fronts in his scattershot way, speaking to reporters for over two hours in total. He castigated Democrats as “unpatriotic” for supporting a possible impeachment, commented on Prince Andrew’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey A. Epstein — “tough story,” Mr. Trump said of the prince, whom he claimed not to know — and mused that he might punt on a trade deal with China until after the 2020 election.
But it was Mr. Macron who was his focus for much of the day.
In November, Mr. Macron — another leader who enjoys talking — made headlines for lamenting, in an interview with The Economist magazine, what he said was the loss of American leadership, leading to “the brain death of NATO.” He said the United States under Mr. Trump appeared to be “turning its back on us,” notably by pulling troops out of northeastern Syria without notice, and called on Europeans to do more in their own defense with the aim of “strategic autonomy.’’
“You have no coordination whatsoever of strategic decision-making between the United States and its NATO allies,” Mr. Macron said. “None.”
His remarks at the time drew a host of rebukes from other NATO allies, including from Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, who called Mr. Macron’s “sweeping judgments” unnecessary. Experts said the French leader had made a valid point, but warned that his words would be weaponized by Mr. Trump, who on Tuesday jumped at the opportunity.
In a 52-minute meeting Tuesday morning with Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO Secretary General, Mr. Trump called Mr. Macron’s comments last month “very insulting” and a “very, very nasty statement essentially to 28 countries.”
But when asked during the afternoon meeting to address his earlier comments about Mr. Macron, Mr. Trump, a leader averse to face-to-face confrontation, initially demurred. When it was his turn to speak, Mr. Macron was direct.
“My statement created some reactions,” Mr. Macron said. “I do stand by it.”“My statement created some reactions,” Mr. Macron said. “I do stand by it.”
What followed was an extended, terse back-and-forth over trade, immigration, and Mr. Trump’s relationship with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey. As they continued a terse back-and-forth, Mr. Macron targeted Mr. Trump’s relationship with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey. Mr. Erdogan has already upset NATO allies by purchasing a sophisticated Russian antiaircraft missile system, the S-400. He is now threatening to oppose NATO’s plans to fortify the defense of Poland and the Baltic countries if the alliance does not join him in labeling some Kurdish groups as terrorists.
Mr. Trump’s interactions with the Turkish president are also sure to be closely watched. Mr. Erdogan, who has already upset NATO allies by purchasing a sophisticated Russian antiaircraft missile system, the S-400, is now threatening to oppose NATO’s plans to update the defense of Poland and the Baltic countries if the alliance does not join him in labeling some Kurdish groups as terrorists. Mr. Trump has maintained a soft touch with Mr. Erdogan, including giving the green light for the Turkish leader to advance troops into Northern Syria in an offensive against Kurdish-led forces that had been allied with the United States. On Tuesday, Mr. Trump would not say whether he would impose sanctions on Turkey for buying the missile system.
“Who is the enemy today?” Mr. Macron asked. “And let’s be clear and work together on that.” Mr. Macron was harsher, saying that the purchase would need to be explained and that there would need to be common ground on classifying different groups of fighters as terrorists.
The meeting continued to devolve as the two discussed the containment of ISIS fighters in Syria. Hunched forward, Mr. Trump tried to jokingly offer captive fighters to the French. “When I look at Turkey, they are fighting against those who fight with us,” he said. “Who is the enemy today?”
“Would you like some nice ISIS fighters?” Mr. Trump said. During several appearances before reporters, Mr. Trump found several chances to effectively highlight a foreign policy achievement he hopes will help his re-election campaign: getting allies to pay more toward the costs of running NATO.
“Let’s be serious,” a stone-faced Mr. Macron replied. Mr. Macron said that he and Mr. Trump “don’t have the same definition of terrorism around the table.” “What I’m liking about NATO is that a lot of countries have stepped up, really, I think, at my behest,” Mr. Trump said.
“When I look at Turkey, they are fighting against those who fight with us,” he added, referring to Kurdish fighters. But Mr. Macron made it clear that while he wanted more military spending by European countries, NATO had other challenges to address besides “just numbers.”
The contentious tone was baked into the day’s proceedings. Hours earlier, in a meeting with Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of NATO, Mr. Trump said President Emmanuel Macron of France had been “very insulting” to the alliance. “I’m sorry to say that we don’t have the same definition of terrorism around the table,” Mr. Macron said. Throughout the icy exchange, clear disagreements between the two leaders over how to deal with Mr. Erdogan’s approach in Syria even overshadowed the issue of France imposing taxes on American tech giants, and a potential retaliatory tariff on French wines.
Mr. Macron had suggested that Europe could no longer assume unwavering support from the United States. “I think nobody needs it more than France,” Mr. Trump said of the alliance, “and that’s why I think when France makes a statement like they made about NATO, that’s a very dangerous statement for them to make.” “We tax wine and we have other taxes scheduled,” Mr. Trump said. “But we’d rather not do that. But that’s the way it works.”
Mr. Trump’s visit comes as leaders across Europe struggle to balance the shared goal of combating the rising influence of global adversaries — China will be a focus — and containing other unpredictable members, including President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey. Mr. Trump slumped back in his chair, while Mr. Macron sat on the edge of his chair, bobbing and gesturing energetically.
On Tuesday, Mr. Trump said that he was considering delaying reaching a deal in his protracted and economically damaging trade war with China until after the 2020 election. Mr. Macron’s aggressive approach appeared at times to unsettle Mr. Trump, who said at one point that he did not support Iranian protesters who are calling for an end to the Islamic Republic’s government and the downfall of its leaders. That appeared to contradict his own administration’s position and the recent comments of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, but Mr. Trump quickly clarified his position with a tweet saying that the “United States of America supports the brave people of Iran.”
“In some ways I like the idea of waiting until after the election for the China deal,” Mr. Trump said, adding that he had “no deadline” for reaching an accord. In the past, Mr. Trump has been so disruptive at NATO meetings that he triggered an emergency session. He has accused other member countries of shortchanging the United States on military spending, and he has called the alliance “obsolete,” questioning whether it still served a purpose.
Mr. Trump’s defense of NATO against Mr. Macron’s comments was something of a role reversal for the two leaders. In the past, Mr. Trump has been so disruptive at NATO meetings that he triggered an emergency session. He has accused other member countries of shortchanging the United States on military spending, and he has questioned whether the alliance still served a purpose. A goal of the current meeting was to avoid any formal disruptions. But Ian Lesser, a former American official who directs the Brussels office of the German Marshall Fund, said that the subtext of Mr. Macron’s criticism of NATO was growing doubt about Washington’s commitment.
A goal of the current meeting was to avoid any formal disruptions. This time, however, it was Mr. Macron’s comments that were viewed as unhelpful to the alliance. “When he says ‘brain death,’ Macron’s talking about American leadership,’’ Mr. Lesser said. “That’s perhaps what Trump is hearing. Trump’s view is that he’s turned NATO around, and the rhetoric from Paris is compromising that narrative.’’
Mr. Trump called the remarks a “very, very nasty statement essentially to 28 countries” and said that NATO served a “great purpose.” Experts in the region said that with Britain moving toward leaving the European Union and the German government enmeshed in its own political troubles, Mr. Macron saw an opportunity to assert French leadership in Europe.
Heather A. Conley, director of the Europe program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said Mr. Macron saw an opportunity to assert French leadership in Europe, with Britain moving toward leaving the European Union and the German government enmeshed in its own political troubles. “President Macron is seizing that moment, seeking to be disruptive in his own way, and so we will see how that works,” Ms. Conley said. “He’s increasingly isolating himself within Europe.”
“President Macron is seizing that moment, seeking to be disruptive in his own way, and so we will see how that works,” she said. In the background of these competing global interests is Mr. Trump’s possible impeachment. On Wednesday, the House Judiciary Committee is set to question legal experts about whether there are grounds to impeach Mr. Trump for pressuring Ukraine to take actions that could help him in the 2020 election.
In the background of these competing global interests is Mr. Trump’s possible impeachment. On Wednesday the House Judiciary Committee is set to question legal experts about whether there are grounds to impeach Mr. Trump for pressuring Ukraine to take actions that could help him in the 2020 election. Several times through the day, Mr. Trump turned his attention back to impeachment, castigating the effort led by Democrats as “unpatriotic. ”And he again defended his behavior during a July call with the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky — an interaction that formed the basis for the inquiry.
That threatens to throw off Mr. Trump’s focus and overshadow a victorious message that administration officials brought along with them to Britain: Last week, officials told reporters that the president had been “spectacularly successful” in urging allies to increase their military spending by more than $100 billion. “I did nothing wrong,” Mr. Trump said of the impeachment inquiry during a bilateral meeting with Mr. Stoltenberg, adding that he did not feel that a censure from Congress was justified, either. “You don’t censure somebody when they did nothing wrong.”
On Tuesday morning, Mr. Trump spoke to reporters for 52 minutes, at times turning his attention back to domestic issues. He castigated the impeachment effort led by Democrats as “unpatriotic” and again defended his behavior during a July call with the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky — an interaction that formed the basis for the inquiry. On Tuesday, Mr. Trump also met with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada and hosted a private fund-raising round table with supporters, which Trump campaign officials said raised $3 million.
“I did nothing wrong,” Mr. Trump said of the impeachment inquiry during a bilateral meeting with Mr. Stoltenberg, noting that he was not open to a censure from Congress, either. “You don’t censure somebody when they did nothing wrong.” Notably absent from the president’s schedule was a one-on-one meeting with the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, who is campaigning ahead of a Dec. 12 election and has been desperate to keep Mr. Trump at arm’s length.
Mr. Trump’s morning comments set a tense backdrop for his meeting on Tuesday afternoon with Mr. Macron, who has shifted from a charm offensive with Mr. Trump to a more confrontational approach. Mr. Johnson is managing the political fallout from a terrorist attack on Friday in central London, where a lone extremist fatally stabbed two people and wounded three others.
Experts in the region said they were watching to see whether Mr. Macron and Mr. Trump could agree on a path forward for NATO. “We need U.S. leadership in order to push any number of things on the NATO agenda, particularly in tougher areas like nuclear modernization or arms control,” Ms. Conley said. A chief concern in Britain is that Mr. Trump could change the course of next week’s election, intentionally or not, by sending inflammatory tweets or wading into local politics in interviews. On Tuesday, Mr. Trump indicated that he would respect Mr. Johnson’s wishes and not interfere in the impending election.
Mr. Trump will also meet with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada and host a private fund-raising round table with supporters, which Trump campaign officials say will raise $3 million.
Notably absent from the president’s schedule is a one-on-one meeting with the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, who is campaigning ahead of a Dec. 12 election and has been desperate to keep Mr. Trump at arm’s length. Mr. Johnson is managing the political fallout from a terrorist attack on Friday in central London, where a lone extremist fatally stabbed two people and wounded three others.
Mr. Johnson will host several leaders, including the president, in a group reception at 10 Downing Street on Tuesday evening, before the Trumps head to Buckingham Palace for a reception with Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles.
A chief concern in Britain is that Mr. Trump could change the course of next week’s election, intentionally or not, by sending inflammatory tweets or wading into local politics in interviews.
During his meeting with Mr. Stoltenberg, Mr. Trump indicated that he would respect Mr. Johnson’s wishes and not interfere in the impending election.
“I’ll stay out of the election,” Mr. Trump said. “I think Boris is very capable and he will do a good job.”“I’ll stay out of the election,” Mr. Trump said. “I think Boris is very capable and he will do a good job.”
Hours before he and the first lady, Melania Trump, were expected at the palace, Mr. Trump also addressed a controversy engulfing the Royal family. Prince Andrew, the queen’s third child, recently spoke with the BBC about his relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey A. Epstein — an interview that turned into a public relations disaster, leading to the prince stepping back from public life.
“I don’t know Prince Andrew, but that’s a tough story,” Mr. Trump said.
In dealing with Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Trump has taken a soft touch, after other NATO members condemned Turkey’s decision to launch an offensive into northeastern Syria against Kurdish militia. A Kurdish force had been fighting alongside the Americans against the Islamic State, but Mr. Trump gave the go-ahead for the Turkish incursion in a controversial phone call.
Steven Erlanger contributed reporting.Steven Erlanger contributed reporting.