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Brexit: Irish PM hints extra EU summit might be needed because 'many issues' still to be resolved– live news Brexit: Irish PM hints extra EU summit might be needed because 'many issues' still to be resolved– live news
(32 minutes later)
In the opening of her speech Theresa May said government should not just be about positive headlines and great oratory, PoliticsHome’s Matt Honeycombe-Foster reports.
THERESA MAY KLAXON. She's speaking in the Queen's Speech debate.Says government is not "about headlines"."You can have the best headlines and the greatest oratory and the most arresting phrases but they're of no use if they don't actually, practically deliver for people." pic.twitter.com/20O8qKddsL
That will obviously be seen as a dig at her successor, Boris Johnson, who is far better than May ever was at coining “arresting phrases”.
From the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg
No sense of imminent breakthrough after DUP meeting - still gaps and concerns, and not just on what happens around the border.. feels like long hard day for all concerned
Foster staying in London tho, so talks in all directions are still going on...far from resolution, but far from over too
The Times’s Brussels correspondent Bruno Waterfield has posted a useful Twitter thread on the state of play in the Brexit talks. It starts here.
Hiccups in the Brexit talks which could go to the wire as late 5.30pm or so. Best case scenario is political agreement at #EUCO which means Brexit almost certainly will not happen on Oct 31
This, from the Times’ Henry Zeffman, backs up the impression given by what Sammy Wilson was saying in the Commons Brexit committee hearing. (See 12.39am.)
Consent, not customs, is the sticking point between Johnson and the DUP now, according to a government source
This is not May’s first speech from the backbenches. She spoke recently in the second reading debate on the domestic abuse bill, which was her first Commons speech as a backbencher since her resignation in July.
In the Commons Theresa May, the former prime minister, has just started speaking in the Queen’s speech debate.
At the moment she is having a go at Brexit - rehearsing the ancient arguments about whether the last Labour government spent too much ahead of the financial crash.
From the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg
EU ambassadors meeting has been moved back until 5pm, 4 UK time
Sammy Wilson, the DUP’s Brexit spokesman, used his questions to Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, in the Brexit committee hearing to spell out in some details the DUP’s objections to the plan for a replacement to the backstop being negotiated by the UK and the EU.
He did not say his party would oppose the plan (the full details of which have yet to be revealed) in all circumstances. But he sounded sceptical, particularly on the latest thinking on “consent”. (Some commentary has implied that the most serious problems relate to customs, but Wilson’s questioning implied consent could turn out to be more of a stumbling block.)
Here are the key points Wilson made.
Wilson claimed that removing what was seen as the DUP veto over the arrangements would breach the Good Friday agreement (or the Belfast agreement, as unionists like Wilson call it). The Northern Ireland assembly has a “petition of concern” process that means key decisions have to have significant support from both unionists and nationalists in the assembly. In practice, this means the DUP and Sinn Fein both get a veto. Sinn Fein wants Northern Ireland to be aligned with Ireland and the EU, and so in practice, when Boris Johnson put forward double-majority consent plans in his paper (pdf) earlier this month, he was proposing a DUP veto. The Irish government and the non-unionist parties in Northern Ireland said this was unacceptable, and Johnson is now said to be looking at another “consent” mechanism - perhaps a simple majority in the assembly. Wilson said this would be contrary to the Good Friday agreement, because the agreement includes the principle of “cross-community consent”. He said abandoning the current plan (ie, the one giving the DUP a veto) would be:
Not just against the spirit of the [Good Friday] agreement, but it is explicitly against the terms of the agreement.
Wilson repeatedly asked for an assurance that the government would not consent mechanism involving just a simple majority in the assembly. And he told Barclay:
What we are told time and time again in this committee [is that the Good Friday agreement] is an internationally binding agreement which, very clearly - in fact, in very explicit and detailed terms - sets out how cross-community support has to be measured in the the assembly. So all I want to hear from you today are that the terms of the Belfast agreement ... will be the terms on which consent for opting into arrangements which diminish the powers of the Northern Ireland assembly, which will treat Northern Ireland differently, to a certain extent, from the rest of the United Kingdom, that that consent by sought on the basis of the agreement.
Barclay failed to give Wilson the assurance that he wanted. He just said the government was committed to the Good Friday agreement.
Wilson said the plan being considered by the government would “diminish” the powers of the Northern Ireland assembly. (See quote above.) He made this point even though the assembly has been suspended for almost three years.
He said he hoped the government was not planning to keep Northern Ireland in the EU customs union for practical purposes. Talking about this idea, he said:
I hope that first of all the government is not contemplating that.
This sounded like a ritual objection. Everyone knows that is exactly what the government is now considering.
He quoted figures saying including Northern Ireland in the EU customs union for practical purposes could cost Northern Irish businesses an extra £500m.
He signalled that Northern Ireland businesses would expect compensation for these extra costs. Barclay said the government was planning a new deal for Northern Ireland, but that did not seem to satisfy Wilson.
Wilson said he was worried EU state aid rules could prevent compensation being paid in these circumstances. He said:
One of the suggestions that has been made is that, if there are additional costs, Northern Ireland could be compensated for those additional costs. If we sign up to abiding by some EU regulations, then state aid rules would apply and support could not be given to businesses which were caught with those additional costs.
Barclay did not specifically address this point, although he said the government wanted a new deal for Northern Ireland.
Wilson demanded details of exactly what new infrastructure would be needed for imposing customs checks on goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland would work. Barclay said he could not give details at this point.
The Stephen Barclay hearing is now over.The Stephen Barclay hearing is now over.
The most significant points were made not by Barclay himself, who studiously avoided saying anything very revealing about the detail of the ongoing Brexit talks, but by Sammy Wilson, the DUP’s Brexit spokesman.The most significant points were made not by Barclay himself, who studiously avoided saying anything very revealing about the detail of the ongoing Brexit talks, but by Sammy Wilson, the DUP’s Brexit spokesman.
I will post the key quotes in a moment, but the Times’ Steven Swinford has the gist of it here.I will post the key quotes in a moment, but the Times’ Steven Swinford has the gist of it here.
So while Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds are in No 10, Sammy Wilson is raising significant concerns:* Consent *must* be based on cross-community double majority* Deal will 'diminish' NI Assembly* Customs checks will lead to 'impediments' to trade between GB & NISo while Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds are in No 10, Sammy Wilson is raising significant concerns:* Consent *must* be based on cross-community double majority* Deal will 'diminish' NI Assembly* Customs checks will lead to 'impediments' to trade between GB & NI
Q: By Saturday will we have clarity on what infrastructure might be in place under these plans?Q: By Saturday will we have clarity on what infrastructure might be in place under these plans?
Barclay says the first thing to do is to get a deal. After that, there will be an urgent need to bring the matter back to the Commons, and to then inform MPs.Barclay says the first thing to do is to get a deal. After that, there will be an urgent need to bring the matter back to the Commons, and to then inform MPs.
Q: Is it government policy to oppose customs checks in the Irish Sea?Q: Is it government policy to oppose customs checks in the Irish Sea?
Barclay says the government says Northern Ireland must be part of UK customs territory.Barclay says the government says Northern Ireland must be part of UK customs territory.
As for the details, those are part of the negotiations. It would be better to discuss them when there is “further clarity”, he says.As for the details, those are part of the negotiations. It would be better to discuss them when there is “further clarity”, he says.
In the Brexit committee Sammy Wilson, the DUP Brexit spokesman, is asking about customs arrangements.In the Brexit committee Sammy Wilson, the DUP Brexit spokesman, is asking about customs arrangements.
Q: What assessment has the government made of the impact of imposing EU tariffs on goods coming to Northern Ireland from Great Britain?Q: What assessment has the government made of the impact of imposing EU tariffs on goods coming to Northern Ireland from Great Britain?
Barclay says the negotiations are still ongoing.Barclay says the negotiations are still ongoing.
The government wants to understand the impact of any such plan.The government wants to understand the impact of any such plan.
These ideas are subject to “live discussions”, he says. He says it would not be appropriate to go further.These ideas are subject to “live discussions”, he says. He says it would not be appropriate to go further.
Q: Would Northern Ireland businesses be compensated?Q: Would Northern Ireland businesses be compensated?
Barclay says the government has already proposed a new deal for Northern Ireland. This is part of the PM’s desire to “level up” those parts of the UK that are less prosperous.Barclay says the government has already proposed a new deal for Northern Ireland. This is part of the PM’s desire to “level up” those parts of the UK that are less prosperous.
Jeremy Corbyn is playing down suggestions that he could remove the whip from any Labour MP who votes for Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, the BBC’s Norman Smith reports.Jeremy Corbyn is playing down suggestions that he could remove the whip from any Labour MP who votes for Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, the BBC’s Norman Smith reports.
Jeremy Corbyn plays down claims he might remove whip from Labour MPs who back a Boris Johnson Brexit dealJeremy Corbyn plays down claims he might remove whip from Labour MPs who back a Boris Johnson Brexit deal
"I believe in persuasion rather than threats," says @jeremycorbyn on claims he cd remove whip from Labour MPs who support Brexit deal."I believe in persuasion rather than threats," says @jeremycorbyn on claims he cd remove whip from Labour MPs who support Brexit deal.
If Labour MPs were to lose the whip for voting with the government on this, they would be unable to stand for the party as a candidate at the next election.If Labour MPs were to lose the whip for voting with the government on this, they would be unable to stand for the party as a candidate at the next election.
Nineteen Labour MPs recently signed an open letter saying that they were opposed to extending Brexit (Labour’s official policy) and that they wanted to vote for a deal. No 10 hopes many or all of these MPs might back a deal, potentially compensating for the lack of DUP support.Nineteen Labour MPs recently signed an open letter saying that they were opposed to extending Brexit (Labour’s official policy) and that they wanted to vote for a deal. No 10 hopes many or all of these MPs might back a deal, potentially compensating for the lack of DUP support.
From my colleague Rowena MasonFrom my colleague Rowena Mason
Cabinet now meeting earlier at 2.30pm. Noises still quite negative from the UK side re getting the DUP on board. PM's official spokesman says "issues remain to be resolved" although he insists some progress was made overnight.Cabinet now meeting earlier at 2.30pm. Noises still quite negative from the UK side re getting the DUP on board. PM's official spokesman says "issues remain to be resolved" although he insists some progress was made overnight.
Back in the Commons Stephen Barclay claims that, if the UK leaves the EU this autumn, the negotiation of a future trade deal with the EU could conclude by the end of next year, when the transition is due to end.
He says the political declaration will provide a framework for the future deal. And he says the trade negotiators will be able to meet more easily than in, for example, the EU-US trade talks, when negotiators had to fly over from America.
From my colleague Daniel Boffey in Brussels
EU capitals say there is not enough time now for formal agreement on the deal - but they can give political agreement to the deal on Thursday. If DUP can be won round.
This is from PoliticalPics, a Twitter account run by the photographer Steve Back, who regularly covers Downing Street.
DUP just gone in back door of No10 sneaked in is more appropriate!
Back in the Commons committee Barclay says he cannot say what papers would be available to MPs before a possible Commons vote on Saturday. The Tory Richard Graham wanted to know if MPs would be able to read the text of the withdrawal agreement and political declaration.
From the Sun’s Tom Newton Dunn
Cabinet meeting brought forward to 2.30pm now rather than late afternoon. Another sign it will no longer be asked to sign off any deal.
Q: What engagement has the UK government had with the Scottish and Welsh governments this week about progress in the talks? Cherry says her suspicion is that there has been none.
Barclay says he is not aware of the details, because he has been travelling, but he says he will write to the committee.
Cherry says the Scottish and Welsh government are getting far less information than the DUP and the ERG, which have been called in to No 10.
Barclay says the SNP has said it will vote against the deal anyway.
Back in the Brexit committee the SNP MP Joanna Cherry, one of the people who took the government to court in Scotland seeking an assurance that Boris Johnson would obey the Benn act, is asking the questions now.
Cherry asks Stephen Barclay if he agrees with the passage in the judgment from Lord Pentland, who said there was no need for the court to issue an order instructing the government to comply with the Benn act because the government had given assurances it would. Pentland said:
I approach matters on the basis that it would be destructive of one of the core principles of constitutional propriety and of the mutual trust that is the bedrock of the relationship between the court and the crown for the prime minister or the government to renege on what they have assured the court that the prime minister intends to do.
Barclay said the government would obey the law, but he did not endorse Pentland’s actual words.
Q: Does the government have a plan to send two letters to the EU, one asking for an extension in line with the Benn act and another saying the government does not want an extension, as Andrea Leadsom suggests.
Barclay said he was not aware of any plan to that effect.
Barclays plays down suggestions government could use a “two-letter” strategy to sabotage the Benn act.
These are from RTE’s Tony Connelly.
BREAKING: Michel Barnier has told EU Commissioners he is optimistic of getting a deal done today, @rtenews understands
2/ However, there still outstanding issues, so this could go right to the wire.
3/ It's understood VAT has emerged as a last minute problem: if NI remains inside the EU's VAT system, essential for North-South trade, then a new mechanism will have to be created for East-West trade, as the UK will be in its own VAT system
4/ However, it's understood officials are confident that a solution can be found.
5/ It's understood consent is also proving difficult, with a senior EU source saying the DUP are pushing to restore a tighter Stormont lock
6/ The third big hurdle is on the "level playing field" provisions. The EU is concerned at Boris Johnson's bid to dilute Theresa May's commitments to not stray far from the EU's environmental, state aid, social and labour standards
7/ The meeting of EU ambassadors, whom Barnier will brief, is still scheduled for 14hr CET, suggesting that the timings are still on course
ITV’s Robert Peston say the DUP are going back to Downing Street for another meeting.
DUP going back into Downing St, to try to find a way through roadblock. https://t.co/TDNS9amGqy
Leo Varadkar, the Irish taoiseach (prime minister), has been speaking this morning, Sky’s Beth Rigby reports. He said he had spoken to Boris Johnson and to the European commission this morning. He said that he was still confident but that there were “many issues” to be resolved and that another EU summit later this month might be needed.
NEW: Varadkar. Spoken to PM this am. Hopes issues can be resolved today, if not still more time as he floats a possible second summit before Oct 31 pic.twitter.com/C7HMkBRnwO