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MPs' anger at police raid debate MPs blast plans for raid inquiry
(about 1 hour later)
Ministers have been accused of clamping down on debate about a police raid on and seizure of material from Tory MP Damian Green's Commons office. Ministers have been accused of trying to "stymie" a Commons inquiry into a police raid on a Tory MP's office as part of a probe into Home Office leaks.
The debate began with a row over how long it should take. The Tories and Lib Dems failed to get the three-hour debate extended to six. Government plans were an attempt "delay its work until the controversy has blown over", Tory Theresa May told MPs.
They want changes to ministers' plans for a Commons inquiry into the affair. The Lib Dems accused the government of trying to "tie the hands" of the committee "for an indefinite period".
Former Tory minister Douglas Hogg began by accusing ministers of "concealment, duplicity, whitewash and cover-up". Commons leader Harriet Harman said any inquiry had to avoid the perception it was "breathing down the police's neck".
Amid angry exchanges, Tory backbencher Sir Nicholas Winterton told MPs: "Even in Zimbabwe on the 26th January 1982, when Mr Mugabe's police wished to arrest a member of that Parliament, they did not, could not and would not enter the House of Commons in Harare." MPs are debating the arrest of shadow immigration minister Damian Green and a police raid on his Commons office, and seizure of some material during an inquiry into leaks.
'Pantomime' 'Whitewash' attack
For the Lib Dems, Simon Hughes said it was a "sorry state of affairs" if MPs were not given enough time to debate whether police should enter Parliament. In angry exchanges at the start of the debate, the Conservative former minister Douglas Hogg accused the government of "concealment, duplicity, whitewash and cover-up".
"This is the government trying to clamp down on the House of Commons having its say," he said. The Tories and Lib Dems pushed to make the debate, scheduled for three hours, six hours long, but were defeated by the government.
But deputy Commons leader Chris Bryant insisted three hours was adequate to debate the issues thrown up by the affair, which had already been discussed in debates last week. Lib Dem spokesman Simon Hughes said it was a case of the "government trying to clamp down on the House of Commons having its say".
It is not only a gross discourtesy to the Speaker but a flagrant abuse of the power of the executive in relation to the interests of this House Theresa MayShadow Commons leader It is I believe not only a gross discourtesy to the Speaker but a flagrant abuse of the power of the executive in relation to the wishes and interests of this House Theresa MayShadow Commons leader
Labour backbencher Frank Field said the debate was descending into a "pantomime" and MPs would be judged, not on the debate, but how they voted. But Labour backbencher Frank Field said the debate was descending into a "pantomime" and MPs would be judged on how they voted.
"For us, clearly, it's high drama. To most of our constituents it's already descended into farce - and we should actually get ... on with the business of the House." The opposition parties are angry that while Speaker Michael Martin promised a "speedy" inquiry by a committee of seven MPs chosen by him, the government has proposed a committee dominated by Labour MPs which will not start work until after the police investigation has finished.
However another Labour MP Bob Marshall-Andrews said the reason Labour benches were packed was because they were on a "thinly disguised three-line whip" which he said was "wholly inappropriate". Ms May said the government's plans "fly in the face" of the Speaker's pledge.
No warrant 'Properly protected'
The government won an early vote on how long the debate should take by 308 votes to 234. She told MPs: "It is I believe not only a gross discourtesy to the Speaker but a flagrant abuse of the power of the executive in relation to the wishes and interests of this House, a blatant attempt by government to pack the committee, stymie its debate and delay its work until the controversy has blown over."
The row erupted after Mr Green, the Tory immigration spokesman, was arrested 10 days ago and held for nine hours by the Metropolitan Police. Mr Hughes accused Commons leader Harriet Harman of "arrogantly and disrespectfully" trying to change the Speaker's plans "in the interest of government".
His homes and parliamentary office were searched, as part of an inquiry into allegations of leaks from the Home Office. Former Lib Dem leader Sir Menzies Campbell has put down an amendment to the government's motion setting up the committee, calling for it to report back "not later than 30 January 2009" and "on the circumstances that surround that search and seizure".
Ms Harman told MPs a Parliamentary inquiry into the arrest of Mr Green and search of his Commons office, would look at whether MPs' papers were "properly protected", what led up to the police search and whether "important constitutional principles were properly protected".
It is for neither government nor opposition to pronounce what the evidence is and whether a crime has been committed Harriet HarmanCommons leaderIt is for neither government nor opposition to pronounce what the evidence is and whether a crime has been committed Harriet HarmanCommons leader
MPs were angry police had been allowed to enter the Commons, without a warrant - something Speaker Michael Martin has already said he regrets. But she said it was important to avoid any perception the inquiry was "breathing down the police's neck" or prejudice any future court proceedings.
MPs are now debating the form of a Commons inquiry, announced by last week - amid anger among the opposition parties that it will be dominated by Labour MPs and will not start work until after the police inquiry is completed.
Commons leader Harriet Harman said a Parliamentary inquiry into the arrest of shadow immigration minister Damian Green, and the search of his Commons office, would look at whether MPs' papers were "properly protected", what led up to the police search and whether "important constitutional principles were properly protected".
Ms Harman said it was important to avoid any perception the inquiry was "breathing down the police's neck" or prejudice any future court proceedings.
She said the inquiry would fall "on the same territory as the current police investigation".She said the inquiry would fall "on the same territory as the current police investigation".
She said ministers and opposition leaders had to be "very careful about what they say".She said ministers and opposition leaders had to be "very careful about what they say".
"It is for neither government nor opposition to pronounce what the evidence is and whether a crime has been committed," she said."It is for neither government nor opposition to pronounce what the evidence is and whether a crime has been committed," she said.
Holding to account Rules 'not clear'
The Speaker had to intervene to remind MPs of the need for "moderate language" as one MP accused Ms Harman of "weasel words". Ms May replied that delaying the inquiry would "effectively kick this issue into the long grass".
However her Conservative shadow, Theresa May, said delaying the inquiry would "effectively kick this issue into the long grass" and said the plans outlined by ministers "fly in the face" of those outlined by the Speaker.
"It is not only a gross discourtesy to the Speaker but a flagrant abuse of the power of the executive in relation to the interests of this House," she said.
She said the Tories would not support any inquiry dominated by Labour MPs. The Lib Dems have already said they will boycott the inquiry in its current form.She said the Tories would not support any inquiry dominated by Labour MPs. The Lib Dems have already said they will boycott the inquiry in its current form.
"MPs must be able to do their job both in representing their constituents and in holding the government to account," she said. In rowdy scenes, Tory backbencher Sir Nicholas Winterton said even in Zimbabwe in 1982 Robert Mugabe's police had not entered Parliament to arrest an MP. Mr Hogg accused the government of 'whitewash'
And she said it was wrong to suggest the Commons inquiry could prejudice a police inquiry as the police probe into Home Office leaks was "a different issue" to an investigation into the rights of MPs. But the Labour former minister Frank Dobson told MPs the rules on police entering the Commons were "not clear".
Mr Martin revealed to MPs last Wednesday that he had been told in advance the search of Mr Green's office was to take place, but said he had not been told by Serjeant at Arms Jill Pay, who authorised the search, that the police had not had a search warrant. "We all agree there's something called Parliamentary privileges but hardly anyone agrees exactly what it amounts to," he said.
Mr Green, the MP who was arrested, stood up at one point to caution Mr Dobson who suggested the Tory MP had a "sort of standing order with this civil servant to get a continuation of leaks.
Mr Green said the Speaker had warned against saying anything prejudicial and said Mr Dobson had gone "way over the line".
The row erupted after Mr Green was arrested 10 days ago and held for nine hours by the Metropolitan Police.
His homes and parliamentary office were searched, as part of an inquiry into allegations of leaks from the Home Office.
MPs were angry police had been allowed to enter the Commons, without a warrant - something Speaker Michael Martin has already said he regrets.
Mr Martin revealed to MPs last Wednesday that he had been told in advance the search of Mr Green's office was to take place.
But he said he had not been told by Serjeant at Arms Jill Pay, who authorised the search, that the police had not had a search warrant.