This article is from the source 'nytimes' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/us/politics/mueller-testimony.html
The article has changed 22 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 4 | Version 5 |
|---|---|
| Robert Mueller Testimony to Congress: Live Updates | |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| Mr. Mueller, a reluctant witness who opened his testimony by repeating that he was not willing to go beyond his 448-page report, nonetheless obliged Democrats who prompted him to restate the most damning aspects of his findings to Mr. Trump. | |
| “The finding indicates that the president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mr. Mueller told Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York and the Judiciary Committee chairman, under questioning about his conclusions on whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice. | |
| It was one of the rare instances in which Mr. Mueller strayed outside of one-word answers or short phrases in response to lawmakers’ questions about his investigation. Mr. Mueller’s terse answers and unwillingness to go beyond the scope of his report threaten to give neither party what it wants from the day’s hearings. Mr. Mueller appears unlikely to help Democrats with answers that will provide new sound bites from the former special counsel’s mouth. But he also will not help Republicans undermine the origins of his investigation. | |
| An example: Representative Ted Deutch, Democrat of Florida, asked, “Why? Why did the president want you fired?” to which he responded, “I can’t answer that question.” | |
| But in a carefully steered line of questioning, Mr. Nadler got Mr. Mueller to agree with him that the president’s frequent declarations that the investigation had found “no obstruction” and had “completely and totally exonerated” Mr. Trump were false. | |
| “Right, that is not what the report said,” Mr. Mueller said, following up with a series of “No’s” when Mr. Nadler asked about each claim separately. | |
| Still, Mr. Mueller, who spoke haltingly as he testified, repeatedly declined to go beyond his findings, often referring lawmakers to the text of the report and refusing to speculate on its findings. | |
| [Who is Aaron Zebley, the aide sitting beside Mr. Mueller?] | |
| “That’s a little bit out of our path,” he told Representative Zoe Lofgren, Democrat of California, as she asked what he believed internal polling data obtained by the Russians might be used for. | |
| As Democrats praised his integrity and work product, Republicans treated Mr. Mueller as a hostile witness and took a prosecutorial approach, often hectoring the former special counsel about specific findings in the report. | |
| Representative Doug Collins of Georgia, the committee’s senior Republican, challenged Mr. Mueller repeatedly on whether “collusion” and “conspiracy” were the same thing, prompting Mr. Mueller to ultimately respond, “I leave it with the report.” | |
| Mr. Collins also tried to focus what the investigation did not find, asking whether it was accurate that it did not establish that the president “was involved in underlying crime of Russia interference.” | |
| Mr. Mueller’s response was legalistic: “We found insufficient evidence of the president’s culpability.” | |
| Mr. Nadler kicked off the hearing with a stark statement charging the president with having violated the law. | |
| “Any other person who acted in this way would have been charged with crimes,” Mr. Nadler said in his opening statement. “And in this nation, not even the president is above the law.” | “Any other person who acted in this way would have been charged with crimes,” Mr. Nadler said in his opening statement. “And in this nation, not even the president is above the law.” |
| Mr. Nadler praised Mr. Mueller for the way he conducted the investigation and said his committee — which is under immense scrutiny for how it handles the hearing — would seek to emulate his approach. | Mr. Nadler praised Mr. Mueller for the way he conducted the investigation and said his committee — which is under immense scrutiny for how it handles the hearing — would seek to emulate his approach. |
| “We will follow your example, Director Mueller,” Mr. Nadler said in a statement that never mentioned the word “impeachment.” “We will act with integrity. We will follow the facts where they lead. We will consider all appropriate remedies. We will make our recommendation to the House when our work concludes. | “We will follow your example, Director Mueller,” Mr. Nadler said in a statement that never mentioned the word “impeachment.” “We will act with integrity. We will follow the facts where they lead. We will consider all appropriate remedies. We will make our recommendation to the House when our work concludes. |
| “We will do this work because there must be accountability for the conduct described in your report, especially as it relates to the president,” he said. | “We will do this work because there must be accountability for the conduct described in your report, especially as it relates to the president,” he said. |
| Republicans moved to defend President Trump and play down the evidence that Mr. Mueller uncovered, trying to let the air out of any revelations that might surface during the hearing. | |
| “The burden of proof for accusations that remain unproven is extremely high,” Mr. Collins said. | |
| “The report concluded nobody in the president’s campaign colluded or conspired with the Russians,” he said. | “The report concluded nobody in the president’s campaign colluded or conspired with the Russians,” he said. |
| “The president’s attitude toward the investigation was understandably negative,” Mr. Collins added. “But he did not shut down the investigation. The president knew he was innocent. Those are the facts.” | “The president’s attitude toward the investigation was understandably negative,” Mr. Collins added. “But he did not shut down the investigation. The president knew he was innocent. Those are the facts.” |
| Though he has insisted he would not be watching, Mr. Trump signaled an abiding interest in the events about to unfold. He renewed his criticisms of the investigation and objections (NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION!) about investigators in Twitter posts early Wednesday morning. The president issued similar attacks over the past year. | Though he has insisted he would not be watching, Mr. Trump signaled an abiding interest in the events about to unfold. He renewed his criticisms of the investigation and objections (NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION!) about investigators in Twitter posts early Wednesday morning. The president issued similar attacks over the past year. |
| Earlier this week, the president cheered the Republican effort to discredit the inquiry and posed some questions, several of which have already been answered by the Justice Department’s inspector general. | Earlier this week, the president cheered the Republican effort to discredit the inquiry and posed some questions, several of which have already been answered by the Justice Department’s inspector general. |
| Democrats believe Mr. Mueller’s report has all they need to bring a case against the president — if only they can get Americans to pay attention. Think of their strategy less as fact-finding than moviemaking. | |
| Aides for the Judiciary Committee say that they will zero in on five of the most glaring episodes of possible obstruction in the report, hammering home that Mr. Trump’s behavior was unacceptable and may have resulted in charges if he were not president. The Democrats on the Intelligence Committee similarly want Mr. Mueller to discuss the evidence of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia. | |
| “It’s important to really bring out the key facts around the systemic nature of the Russian involvement in our democracy, how that was intended to help Donald Trump win, how the Trump campaign knew about it, and they welcomed it,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff of California and the chairman of the Intelligence Committee. “Those facts are pretty damning.” | |
| Mr. Mueller’s testimony may be a make-or-break moment for the wish of some liberals to try to oust Mr. Trump from office. | Mr. Mueller’s testimony may be a make-or-break moment for the wish of some liberals to try to oust Mr. Trump from office. |
| About 90 House Democrats already support opening an impeachment inquiry based on Mr. Mueller’s findings, as well as the president’s role in a hush money payment scheme during the 2016 campaign and other matters. Compelling testimony by Mr. Mueller could renew momentum behind the effort. | About 90 House Democrats already support opening an impeachment inquiry based on Mr. Mueller’s findings, as well as the president’s role in a hush money payment scheme during the 2016 campaign and other matters. Compelling testimony by Mr. Mueller could renew momentum behind the effort. |
| But the more important measure of whether impeachment moves forward may show up in polling and at town halls around the country when lawmakers return home next week for their August recess. Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California, who is opposed to impeachment proceedings, has made it clear that public sentiment is key to any such effort. | |
| The following prepared remarks were released by Mr. Mueller’s office. | The following prepared remarks were released by Mr. Mueller’s office. |
| Good morning Chairman Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and members of the Committee. | Good morning Chairman Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and members of the Committee. |
| As you know, in May 2017, the Acting Attorney General asked me to serve as Special Counsel. I undertook that role because I believed that it was of paramount interest to the nation to determine whether a foreign adversary had interfered in the presidential election. | As you know, in May 2017, the Acting Attorney General asked me to serve as Special Counsel. I undertook that role because I believed that it was of paramount interest to the nation to determine whether a foreign adversary had interfered in the presidential election. |
| As the Acting Attorney General said at the time, the appointment was “necessary in order for the American people to have full confidence in the outcome.” | As the Acting Attorney General said at the time, the appointment was “necessary in order for the American people to have full confidence in the outcome.” |
| My staff and I carried out this assignment with that critical objective in mind: to work quietly, thoroughly, and with integrity so that the public would have full confidence in the outcome. | My staff and I carried out this assignment with that critical objective in mind: to work quietly, thoroughly, and with integrity so that the public would have full confidence in the outcome. |
| The order appointing me as Special Counsel directed our Office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. This included investigating any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. It also included investigating efforts to interfere with, or obstruct, the investigation. | The order appointing me as Special Counsel directed our Office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. This included investigating any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. It also included investigating efforts to interfere with, or obstruct, the investigation. |
| Throughout the investigation, I continually stressed two things to the team that we had assembled. | Throughout the investigation, I continually stressed two things to the team that we had assembled. |
| First, we needed to do our work as thoroughly as possible and as expeditiously as possible. It was in the public interest for our investigation to be complete, but not to last a day longer than necessary. | First, we needed to do our work as thoroughly as possible and as expeditiously as possible. It was in the public interest for our investigation to be complete, but not to last a day longer than necessary. |
| Second, the investigation needed to be conducted fairly and with absolute integrity. Our team would not leak or take other actions that could compromise the integrity of our work. All decisions were made based on the facts and the law. | Second, the investigation needed to be conducted fairly and with absolute integrity. Our team would not leak or take other actions that could compromise the integrity of our work. All decisions were made based on the facts and the law. |
| During the course of our investigation, we charged more than 30 defendants with committing federal crimes, including 12 officers of the Russian military. Seven defendants have been convicted or pleaded guilty. | During the course of our investigation, we charged more than 30 defendants with committing federal crimes, including 12 officers of the Russian military. Seven defendants have been convicted or pleaded guilty. |
| Certain of the charges we brought remain pending today. For those matters, I stress that the indictments contain allegations, and every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. | Certain of the charges we brought remain pending today. For those matters, I stress that the indictments contain allegations, and every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. |
| In addition to the criminal charges we brought, as required by Justice Department regulations, we submitted a confidential report to the Attorney General at the conclusion of the investigation. The report set forth the results of our work and the reasons for our charging and declination decisions. The Attorney General later made the report largely public. | In addition to the criminal charges we brought, as required by Justice Department regulations, we submitted a confidential report to the Attorney General at the conclusion of the investigation. The report set forth the results of our work and the reasons for our charging and declination decisions. The Attorney General later made the report largely public. |
| As you know, I made a few limited remarks about our report when we closed the Special Counsel’s Office in May of this year. There are certain points that bear emphasis. | As you know, I made a few limited remarks about our report when we closed the Special Counsel’s Office in May of this year. There are certain points that bear emphasis. |
| First, our investigation found that the Russian government interfered in our election in sweeping and systematic fashion. | First, our investigation found that the Russian government interfered in our election in sweeping and systematic fashion. |
| Second, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities. We did not address “collusion,” which is not a legal term. Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not. | Second, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities. We did not address “collusion,” which is not a legal term. Rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy. It was not. |
| Third, our investigation of efforts to obstruct the investigation and lie to investigators was of critical importance. Obstruction of justice strikes at the core of the government’s effort to find the truth and to hold wrongdoers accountable. | Third, our investigation of efforts to obstruct the investigation and lie to investigators was of critical importance. Obstruction of justice strikes at the core of the government’s effort to find the truth and to hold wrongdoers accountable. |
| Finally, as described in Volume 2 of our report, we investigated a series of actions by the President toward the investigation. Based on Justice Department policy and principles of fairness, we decided we would not make a determination as to whether the President committed a crime. That was our decision then and it remains our decision today. | Finally, as described in Volume 2 of our report, we investigated a series of actions by the President toward the investigation. Based on Justice Department policy and principles of fairness, we decided we would not make a determination as to whether the President committed a crime. That was our decision then and it remains our decision today. |
| Let me say a further word about my appearance today. | Let me say a further word about my appearance today. |
| It is unusual for a prosecutor to testify about a criminal investigation, and given my role as a prosecutor, there are reasons why my testimony will necessarily be limited. | It is unusual for a prosecutor to testify about a criminal investigation, and given my role as a prosecutor, there are reasons why my testimony will necessarily be limited. |
| First, public testimony could affect several ongoing matters. In some of these matters, court rules or judicial orders limit the disclosure of information to protect the fairness of the proceedings. And consistent with longstanding Justice Department policy, it would be inappropriate for me to comment in any way that could affect an ongoing matter. | First, public testimony could affect several ongoing matters. In some of these matters, court rules or judicial orders limit the disclosure of information to protect the fairness of the proceedings. And consistent with longstanding Justice Department policy, it would be inappropriate for me to comment in any way that could affect an ongoing matter. |
| Second, the Justice Department has asserted privileges concerning investigative information and decisions, ongoing matters within the Justice Department, and deliberations within our office. These are Justice Department privileges that I will respect. The Department has released the letter discussing the restrictions on my testimony. | Second, the Justice Department has asserted privileges concerning investigative information and decisions, ongoing matters within the Justice Department, and deliberations within our office. These are Justice Department privileges that I will respect. The Department has released the letter discussing the restrictions on my testimony. |
| I therefore will not be able to answer questions about certain areas that I know are of public interest. For example, I am unable to address questions about the opening of the FBI’s Russia investigation, which occurred months before my appointment, or matters related to the so-called “Steele Dossier.” These matters are the subject of ongoing review by the Department. Any questions on these topics should therefore be directed to the F.B.I. or the Justice Department. | I therefore will not be able to answer questions about certain areas that I know are of public interest. For example, I am unable to address questions about the opening of the FBI’s Russia investigation, which occurred months before my appointment, or matters related to the so-called “Steele Dossier.” These matters are the subject of ongoing review by the Department. Any questions on these topics should therefore be directed to the F.B.I. or the Justice Department. |
| As I explained when we closed the Special Counsel’s Office in May, our report contains our findings and analysis and the reasons for the decisions we made. We conducted an extensive investigation over two years. In writing the report, we stated the results of our investigation with precision. We scrutinized every word. | As I explained when we closed the Special Counsel’s Office in May, our report contains our findings and analysis and the reasons for the decisions we made. We conducted an extensive investigation over two years. In writing the report, we stated the results of our investigation with precision. We scrutinized every word. |
| I do not intend to summarize or describe the results of our work in a different way in the course of my testimony today. As I said on May 29: the report is my testimony. And I will stay within that text. | I do not intend to summarize or describe the results of our work in a different way in the course of my testimony today. As I said on May 29: the report is my testimony. And I will stay within that text. |
| And as I stated in May, I also will not comment on the actions of the Attorney General or of Congress. I was appointed as a prosecutor, and I intend to adhere to that role and to the Department’s standards that govern it. | And as I stated in May, I also will not comment on the actions of the Attorney General or of Congress. I was appointed as a prosecutor, and I intend to adhere to that role and to the Department’s standards that govern it. |
| I will be joined today by the Deputy Special Counsel, Aaron Zebley. Mr. Zebley has extensive experience as a federal prosecutor and at the F.B.I., where he served as chief of staff. Mr. Zebley was responsible for the day-to-day oversight of the investigations conducted by our Office. | I will be joined today by the Deputy Special Counsel, Aaron Zebley. Mr. Zebley has extensive experience as a federal prosecutor and at the F.B.I., where he served as chief of staff. Mr. Zebley was responsible for the day-to-day oversight of the investigations conducted by our Office. |
| I also want to again say thank you to the attorneys, the F.B.I. agents, the analysts, and the professional staff who helped us conduct this investigation in a fair and independent manner. These individuals, who spent nearly two years working on this matter, were of the highest integrity. | I also want to again say thank you to the attorneys, the F.B.I. agents, the analysts, and the professional staff who helped us conduct this investigation in a fair and independent manner. These individuals, who spent nearly two years working on this matter, were of the highest integrity. |
| And let me say one more thing. Over the course of my career, I’ve seen a number of challenges to our democracy. The Russian government’s effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious. As I said on May 29, this deserves the attention of every American. | And let me say one more thing. Over the course of my career, I’ve seen a number of challenges to our democracy. The Russian government’s effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious. As I said on May 29, this deserves the attention of every American. |
| Katie Benner and Eileen Sullivan contributed reporting | Katie Benner and Eileen Sullivan contributed reporting |