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A Clash of Worldviews as Pope Francis and Putin Meet Again A Clash of Worldviews as Pope Francis and Putin Meet Again
(about 3 hours later)
ROME — Whenever President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia meets Pope Francis, he keeps him waiting. Thursday’s visit to the Vatican was no different. ROME — Pope Francis is viewed by many European liberals as the greatest moral voice against the resurgence in populism and the demonization of migrants.
He met Italian leaders and his old friend Silvio Berlusconi, but his most closely watched appointment was with the pope. But for many European nationalists, anti-migration politicians and opponents of gay rights, the real spiritual strongman of their movement is the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, their alternate pope.
Francis is viewed by many European liberals as the greatest moral voice against the resurgence in populism and the demonization of migrants. But for many European nationalists, anti-migration politicians and opponents of gay rights, the Russian leader is their alternate pope — the spiritual strongman of their movement. So when Mr. Putin visited the Vatican on Thursday, it was more than a mere meeting — their third — between the two men. Rather it was a tête-à-tête between the standard bearers of competing views of Christianity on the European continent as ideological polarization between nationalists and liberals cleaves the West.
“I may be speaking heresy, but President Putin looks more like a pope to me, for the way he is living Christianity, compared to the one who should to all effects be the pope,” said Gianmatteo Ferrari, the secretary of Lombardy Russia, a pro-Russian and Putin-adoring association. Its president, Gianluca Savoini, is a close ally of and unofficial Russia liaison for Italy’s anti-migration interior minister, Matteo Salvini. “I may be speaking heresy, but President Putin looks more like a pope to me, for the way he is living Christianity, compared to the one who should to all effects be the pope,” said Gianmatteo Ferrari, the secretary of Lombardy Russia, a pro-Russian and Putin-adoring association, before the meeting.
“The greatest, proudest and most strenuous advocate of our Christian values is President Putin,” Mr. Ferrari said.“The greatest, proudest and most strenuous advocate of our Christian values is President Putin,” Mr. Ferrari said.
The tête-à-tête between the standard bearers of two competing views of Christianity on the continent, their third, took place in a private Vatican library, and came as an ideological polarization between nationalists and liberals cleaves the West. The president of Lombardy Russia, Gianluca Savoini, is a close ally of and unofficial Russia liaison for Matteo Salvini, Italy’s anti-migration interior minister. Mr. Putin was scheduled to meet Mr. Salvini for dinner, along with Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio, leader of the populist Five Star Movement.
“Putin represents a medieval, pre-enlightenment Christianity or at least pre-Vatican II view of Christianity,” said Massimo Introvigne, an Italian sociologist of religions, referring to the Second Vatican Council that brought modern reforms into the church. Mr. Putin’s dance card also included meetings with President Sergio Mattarella and Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, as well as his old friend Silvio Berlusconi. But his most closely watched appointment was with the pope.
Mr. Introvigne said Mr. Putin had made it clear that he believed Western values, such as a belief in human rights and religious liberty, were not universal rights and did not necessarily apply in Russia. On the other hand, Mr. Introvigne said, “Pope Francis represented a more progressive and modern view of Christianity that accepted and promulgated the Western conception of human rights.” In typical fashion, Mr. Putin was an hour late (he also arrived 50 minutes late for their first meeting, in 2013, and more than an hour late in 2015).
For Mr. Putin, the meeting was a way to burnish his reputation as a global leader and show that he is willing to meet with a presumed spiritual adversary. And Francis believes that Mr. Putin’s cooperation is essential for the protection of Christians in the Middle East, where Russia is active. The pope is also pursuing unity, or at least better relations, with the Russian Orthodox Church. The men exchanged gifts, and also what the Vatican later described as ‘‘cordial’’ conversation on “questions of relevance to the life of the Catholic Church in Russia,” ecological issues, and the political situation in Syria, Ukraine and Venezuela.
In typical fashion, Mr. Putin was an hour late (he also arrived 50 minutes late for their first meeting, in 2013, and more than an hour late in 2015). The men exchanged gifts: Mr. Putin gave Francis a CD of a not-yet-released a film, “Sin,” by the Russian director Andrei Konchalovsky, along with a book of photos from the film and an icon of Sts. Peter and Paul. For Mr. Putin, the meeting was a way to burnish his reputation as a global leader. For Francis, Mr. Putin’s cooperation is essential for the protection of Christians in the Middle East, where Russia is active. The pope is also pursuing unity, or at least better relations, with the Russian Orthodox Church.
Francis gave the Russian leader an 18th-century etching of St. Peter’s Square (“So that you won’t forget Rome,” the pope said); a medallion commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I; a copy of the pope’s “Message for the World Day of Peace,” issued last December; and a document titled “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.” In 2016, Francis met with Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, the first such meeting of the two church leaders in about 400 years. But Francis is aware that without the support of Mr. Putin, those efforts are likely to go nowhere.
Speaking through an interpreter, Mr. Putin told the pope: “Thank you for the time you have devoted to me. It was a very substantive, interesting discussion.” The meeting at the Vatican comes as Mr. Putin has taken to directly addressing Europe’s Catholics, many of whom are attracted to nationalist politicians.
In 2016, Francis met with Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, the first such meeting of the two church leaders in about 400 years. But Francis is aware that without the support of Mr. Putin, those efforts are likely to go nowhere. Crucial to that conversation is Ukraine, a battlefield for religious and political identity. In a recent interview with The Financial Times, in which Mr. Putin declared the end of Western liberalism, he was asked whether religion would play a greater role in national culture and cohesion.
In January, Ukraine broke from the Russian Orthodox Church it had been tied to for more than four centuries and started its own ecclesiastically independent Orthodox Church. Against Russian opposition, the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, to which Ukraine had been loyal until 1686, recognized the Ukrainian church. “This is exactly why I will now say a few words about Catholics,” he said, embarking on what seemed like a defense of the traditions of the Catholic Church.
In reaction, the Russian Orthodox Church, which stood to lose a significant chunk of its parishes, said it would no longer recognize the Istanbul-based patriarch. Mr. Putin shares the opposition of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Moscow patriarch, Kirill I, to the break. “Sometimes I get the feeling that these liberal circles are beginning to use certain elements and problems of the Catholic Church as a tool for destroying the church itself,” Mr. Putin said. “This is what I consider to be incorrect and dangerous.”
The meeting in the Vatican comes as Mr. Putin has taken to directly addressing Europe’s Catholics, many of whom are attracted to nationalist politicians. In a recent interview with The Financial Times, in which Mr. Putin declared the end of Western liberalism, he was asked whether religion would then play a greater role in national culture and cohesion. That was music to the ears of traditionalists and hard-right nationalists, who are convinced that Francis — who has spoken inclusively of gay people and Muslim migrants — is that destructive element.
“This is exactly why I will now say a few words about Catholics,” he said, embarking on what seemed like a defense of the traditions of the Catholic Church. “Sometimes I get the feeling that these liberal circles are beginning to use certain elements and problems of the Catholic Church as a tool for destroying the church itself,” Mr. Putin said. “This is what I consider to be incorrect and dangerous.”
This was music to the ears of traditionalists and hard-right nationalists, who are convinced that Francis — who has spoken inclusively of gay people and Muslim migrants — is that destructive element.
Mr. Putin has many fans in Italy, including the country’s de facto leader, Mr. Salvini, who has publicly professed admiration for the Russian leader. He has traveled to Mr. Putin’s political party events in Russia and once wore a shirt with Mr. Putin’s face on it at the Kremlin.Mr. Putin has many fans in Italy, including the country’s de facto leader, Mr. Salvini, who has publicly professed admiration for the Russian leader. He has traveled to Mr. Putin’s political party events in Russia and once wore a shirt with Mr. Putin’s face on it at the Kremlin.
In an interview with the Milan daily newspaper Corriere della Sera before the pope meeting, Mr. Putin said that Mr. Salvini and his League party had actively support the restoration of “full cooperation between Italy and Russia.” He added: “They are pushing for a rapid abolition of the anti-Russian sanctions introduced by the U.S. and the E.U. On this issue our points of view coincide. Salvini has a welcoming attitude towards our country.” In an interview with the Milan daily newspaper Corriere della Sera before the pope meeting, Mr. Putin said that Mr. Salvini and his League party had actively support the restoration of “full cooperation between Italy and Russia.”
Mr. Putin also said Russia had no intention of getting involved in an arms race with the United States, called accusations that Russia had interfered with the American elections “absurd” and said similar claims of interference in the European elections last May was meant “to continue to ‘demonize’ Russia in the eyes of ordinary European citizens.” In an article in the Turin daily La Stampa, he wrote that despite global economic growth, the current Western economic model was “in a universal crisis” called for new accords centered on the notion of “sovereignty and the unconditional right of each country to its own course of development.” He added: “They are pushing for a rapid abolition of the anti-Russian sanctions introduced by the U.S. and the E.U. On this issue our points of view coincide. Salvini has a welcoming attitude toward our country.”
Some of Mr. Salvini’s close allies argue that the former K.G.B. official had supplanted Francis as Europe’s greatest defender of traditional Christian values. The most devout members of the Putin cult talk of the Russian leader in mystical terms, comparing him to the Katechon, a Greek word referring to a force that keeps the Antichrist at bay. They also make passing references to “Third Rome,” a 15th-century idea of manifest destiny for the Orthodox Church, in which Moscow would become the spiritual center of the true church after Rome and Constantinople. Mr. Putin also said Russia had no intention of getting involved in an arms race with the United States, called accusations that Russia had interfered with the American elections “absurd” and said similar claims of interference in the European elections last May was meant “to continue to ‘demonize’ Russia in the eyes of ordinary European citizens.”
Amid this backdrop, Francis has been careful not to antagonize Russia by taking sides in the conflict in Ukraine, or between the Ukrainian orthodox churches. Mr. Introvigne, the sociologist, said that Mr. Putin’s apparent opposition to religious liberty in Russia “could eventually endanger the Catholic minority.” In an article in the Turin-based daily La Stampa, he wrote that despite global economic growth, the current Western economic model was “in a universal crisis” called for new accords centered on the notion of “sovereignty and the unconditional right of each country to its own course of development.”
Alexander Dugin, a Russian public intellectual and traditionalist who maintains a following among nationalists, neo-fascists and European identitarians, said he had noticed that the mysticism of the Russian Orthodox Church, to which he belongs, had drawn converts from Catholics frustrated by what they see as the liberalism of their church. Massimo Introvigne, an Italian sociologist of religions, said Mr. Putin had made it clear that he believed Western values, such as a belief in human rights and religious liberty, were not universal rights and did not necessarily apply in Russia.
“Putin represents a medieval, pre-enlightenment Christianity or at least pre-Vatican II view of Christianity,” said Mr. Introvigne, referring to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, which brought modern reforms into the church.
On the other hand, Mr. Introvigne said, “Pope Francis represented a more progressive and modern view of Christianity that accepted and promulgated the Western conception of human rights.”
The most devout Putin followers talk of the Russian leader in mystical terms, comparing him to the Katechon, a Greek word referring to a force that keeps the Antichrist at bay.
“Putin is katechonic,” said Alexander Dugin, a Russian public intellectual and traditionalist who maintains a following among nationalists, neo-fascists and European identitarians.
Mr. Putin’s devotees also make passing references to “Third Rome,” a 15th-century idea of Manifest Destiny for the Orthodox Church, in which Moscow would become the spiritual center of the true church after Rome and Constantinople.
Amid this backdrop, Francis has been careful not to antagonize Russia by taking sides in the conflict in Ukraine, or between the Ukrainian Orthodox churches. Mr. Introvigne, the sociologist, said that Mr. Putin’s apparent opposition to religious liberty in Russia “could eventually endanger the Catholic minority.”
Mr. Dugin said he had noticed that the mysticism of the Russian Orthodox Church, to which he belongs, had drawn converts from Catholics frustrated by what they see as the liberalism of their church.
He said that some rank-and-file clerics in Rome also saw Mr. Putin as their protector. But not all Catholic traditionalists agree.He said that some rank-and-file clerics in Rome also saw Mr. Putin as their protector. But not all Catholic traditionalists agree.
Roberto de Mattei, the president of the Lepanto Foundation — which is deeply critical of Francis for what is calls his failure to defend Europe’s Christian roots from Islam — said he did not share the sympathy some Catholic traditionalists feel toward Mr. Putin and suspected that the Russian leader was waging a “political operation.” Roberto de Mattei, the president of the Lepanto Foundation — which is deeply critical of Francis for what it calls his failure to defend Europe from Islam — said he did not share the sympathy some Catholic traditionalists feel toward Mr. Putin and suspected that the Russian leader was waging a “political operation.”
“My fear is there is a double game,” Mr. de Mattei said, adding that he felt stuck on a chessboard between Mr. Putin and Pope Francis, while “the West doesn’t have a real leader.”“My fear is there is a double game,” Mr. de Mattei said, adding that he felt stuck on a chessboard between Mr. Putin and Pope Francis, while “the West doesn’t have a real leader.”