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| A Clash of Worldviews as Pope Francis and Putin Meet Again | A Clash of Worldviews as Pope Francis and Putin Meet Again |
| (about 1 hour later) | |
| ROME — Officials in Italy locked down the capital, closed public parks and diverted traffic on Thursday before a state visit by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, whose most-anticipated meeting was with Pope Francis, viewed by many European liberals as the greatest moral voice against the resurgence in populism. | ROME — Officials in Italy locked down the capital, closed public parks and diverted traffic on Thursday before a state visit by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, whose most-anticipated meeting was with Pope Francis, viewed by many European liberals as the greatest moral voice against the resurgence in populism. |
| But for many European nationalists and anti-migration politicians, the Russian leader is their alternate pope — the spiritual strongman of their movement. | But for many European nationalists and anti-migration politicians, the Russian leader is their alternate pope — the spiritual strongman of their movement. |
| “I may be speaking heresy, but President Putin looks more like a pope to me, for the way he is living Christianity, compared to the one who should to all effects be the pope,” said Gianmatteo Ferrari, the secretary of Lombardy Russia, a pro-Russian and Putin-adoring association. Its president, Gianluca Savoini, is a close ally of and unofficial Russia liaison for Italy’s anti-migration interior minister, Matteo Salvini. | “I may be speaking heresy, but President Putin looks more like a pope to me, for the way he is living Christianity, compared to the one who should to all effects be the pope,” said Gianmatteo Ferrari, the secretary of Lombardy Russia, a pro-Russian and Putin-adoring association. Its president, Gianluca Savoini, is a close ally of and unofficial Russia liaison for Italy’s anti-migration interior minister, Matteo Salvini. |
| “The greatest, proudest and most strenuous advocate of our Christian values is President Putin,” Mr. Ferrari said. | “The greatest, proudest and most strenuous advocate of our Christian values is President Putin,” Mr. Ferrari said. |
| The tête-à-tête between the standard bearers of two competing views of Christianity on the continent took place in a private Vatican library and lasted about 55 minutes, and it came as an ideological polarization between nationalists and liberals cleaves the West. | |
| “Putin represents a medieval, pre-enlightenment Christianity or at least pre-Vatican II view of Christianity,” said Massimo Introvigne, an Italian sociologist of religions, referring to the Second Vatican Council that brought modern reforms into the church. | “Putin represents a medieval, pre-enlightenment Christianity or at least pre-Vatican II view of Christianity,” said Massimo Introvigne, an Italian sociologist of religions, referring to the Second Vatican Council that brought modern reforms into the church. |
| Mr. Introvigne said Mr. Putin had made it clear that he believed Western values, such as a belief in human rights and religious liberty, were not universal rights and did not necessarily apply in Russia. On the other hand, Mr. Introvigne said, “Pope Francis represented a more progressive and modern view of Christianity that accepted and promulgated the Western conception of human rights.” | Mr. Introvigne said Mr. Putin had made it clear that he believed Western values, such as a belief in human rights and religious liberty, were not universal rights and did not necessarily apply in Russia. On the other hand, Mr. Introvigne said, “Pope Francis represented a more progressive and modern view of Christianity that accepted and promulgated the Western conception of human rights.” |
| But the agenda of the meeting between Mr. Putin and Francis, their third, is geared more toward cooperation than a clash of the Titans. | But the agenda of the meeting between Mr. Putin and Francis, their third, is geared more toward cooperation than a clash of the Titans. |
| For Mr. Putin, the meeting was a way to burnish his reputation as a global leader and show that he is willing to meet with a presumed spiritual adversary. And Francis believes that Mr. Putin’s cooperation is essential for the protection of Christians in the Middle East, where Russia is active. The pope is also pursuing unity, or at least better relations, with the Russian Orthodox Church. | For Mr. Putin, the meeting was a way to burnish his reputation as a global leader and show that he is willing to meet with a presumed spiritual adversary. And Francis believes that Mr. Putin’s cooperation is essential for the protection of Christians in the Middle East, where Russia is active. The pope is also pursuing unity, or at least better relations, with the Russian Orthodox Church. |
| Mr. Putin was an hour late for his meeting (he also arrived 50 minutes late for their first meeting, in 2013, and more than an hour late in 2015.) The men exchanged gifts: Mr. Putin gave Francis a CD of a not-yet-released a film, “Sin,” by the Russian director Andrei Konchalovsky, along with a book of photos from the film, and an icon of Sts. Peter and Paul. | |
| France gave the Russian leader an 18th-century etching of St. Peter’s Square (“So that you won’t forget Rome,” the pope said) a medallion commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I; a copy of the pope’s “Message for the World Day of Peace,” issued last December; and a document titled “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.” | |
| Speaking through an interpreter, Mr. Putin told the pope: “Thank you for the time you have devoted to me. The discussion was very substantial, interesting,” according to pool reporters. | |
| In 2016, Francis met with Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, the first such meeting of the two church leaders in about 400 years. But Francis is aware that without the support of Mr. Putin, those efforts are likely to go nowhere. Crucial to that conversation is Ukraine, a battlefield for religious and political identity. | In 2016, Francis met with Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, the first such meeting of the two church leaders in about 400 years. But Francis is aware that without the support of Mr. Putin, those efforts are likely to go nowhere. Crucial to that conversation is Ukraine, a battlefield for religious and political identity. |
| In January, Ukraine broke from the Russian Orthodox Church it had been tied to for more than four centuries and started its own ecclesiastically independent Orthodox Church. Against Russian opposition, the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, to which Ukraine had been loyal until 1686, recognized the Ukrainian church. | In January, Ukraine broke from the Russian Orthodox Church it had been tied to for more than four centuries and started its own ecclesiastically independent Orthodox Church. Against Russian opposition, the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, to which Ukraine had been loyal until 1686, recognized the Ukrainian church. |
| In reaction, the Russian Orthodox Church, which stood to lose a significant chunk of its parishes, said it would no longer recognize the Istanbul-based patriarch. Mr. Putin shares the opposition of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Moscow patriarch, Kirill I, to the break. | In reaction, the Russian Orthodox Church, which stood to lose a significant chunk of its parishes, said it would no longer recognize the Istanbul-based patriarch. Mr. Putin shares the opposition of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Moscow patriarch, Kirill I, to the break. |
| The meeting in the Vatican comes as Mr. Putin has taken to directly addressing Europe’s Catholics, many of whom are attracted to nationalist politicians. In a recent interview with The Financial Times, in which Mr. Putin declared the end of Western liberalism, he was asked whether religion would then play a greater role in national culture and cohesion. | The meeting in the Vatican comes as Mr. Putin has taken to directly addressing Europe’s Catholics, many of whom are attracted to nationalist politicians. In a recent interview with The Financial Times, in which Mr. Putin declared the end of Western liberalism, he was asked whether religion would then play a greater role in national culture and cohesion. |
| “This is exactly why I will now say a few words about Catholics,” he said, embarking on what seemed like a defense of the traditions of the Catholic Church, often heard by Francis’ critics within the Catholic hierarchy. | “This is exactly why I will now say a few words about Catholics,” he said, embarking on what seemed like a defense of the traditions of the Catholic Church, often heard by Francis’ critics within the Catholic hierarchy. |
| “Sometimes I get the feeling that these liberal circles are beginning to use certain elements and problems of the Catholic Church as a tool for destroying the church itself,” Mr. Putin said. “This is what I consider to be incorrect and dangerous.” | “Sometimes I get the feeling that these liberal circles are beginning to use certain elements and problems of the Catholic Church as a tool for destroying the church itself,” Mr. Putin said. “This is what I consider to be incorrect and dangerous.” |
| This was music to the ears of traditionalists and hard-right nationalists, who are convinced that Francis — who has spoken inclusively of gay people and Muslim migrants — is that destructive element. | This was music to the ears of traditionalists and hard-right nationalists, who are convinced that Francis — who has spoken inclusively of gay people and Muslim migrants — is that destructive element. |
| Mr. Putin has many fans in Italy, including the country’s de facto leader, Mr. Salvini, who has publicly professed admiration for the Russian leader. He has traveled to Mr. Putin’s political party events in Russia and once wore a shirt with Mr. Putin’s face on it at the Kremlin. | Mr. Putin has many fans in Italy, including the country’s de facto leader, Mr. Salvini, who has publicly professed admiration for the Russian leader. He has traveled to Mr. Putin’s political party events in Russia and once wore a shirt with Mr. Putin’s face on it at the Kremlin. |
| In an interview with the Milan daily newspaper Corriere della Sera, Mr. Putin said that Mr. Salvini and his League party had actively support the restoration of “full cooperation between Italy and Russia.” | In an interview with the Milan daily newspaper Corriere della Sera, Mr. Putin said that Mr. Salvini and his League party had actively support the restoration of “full cooperation between Italy and Russia.” |
| “They are pushing for a rapid abolition of the anti-Russian sanctions introduced by the U.S. and the E.U.,” he said. “On this issue our points of view coincide. Salvini has a welcoming attitude towards our country.” | “They are pushing for a rapid abolition of the anti-Russian sanctions introduced by the U.S. and the E.U.,” he said. “On this issue our points of view coincide. Salvini has a welcoming attitude towards our country.” |
| Some of Mr. Salvini’s close allies argue that the former K.G.B. official had supplanted Francis as Europe’s greatest defender of traditional Christian values. The most devout members of the Putin cult talk of the Russian leader in mystical terms, such as comparing him to the Katechon, a Greek word referring to a force that keeps the Antichrist at bay. “Putin is katechonic,” said Alexander Dugin, a Russian public intellectual and traditionalist. They also make passing reference to “Third Rome,” a 15th-century idea of manifest destiny for the Orthodox Church, in which Moscow would become the spiritual center of the true church after Rome and Constantinople. | |
| Amid this backdrop, Francis has been careful not to antagonize Russia by taking sides in the conflict in Ukraine, or between the Ukrainian orthodox churches. Mr. Introvigne, the sociologist, said that Mr. Putin’s apparent opposition to religious liberty in Russia “could eventually endanger the Catholic minority.” | |
| On Friday and Saturday, the pope will meet with the archbishop and other leaders of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which is in full communion with the pope. In a statement in May, the Vatican said the meeting would urge the leaders to support peace “in agreement, as far as possible,” with the Roman church and Orthodox Church. | On Friday and Saturday, the pope will meet with the archbishop and other leaders of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which is in full communion with the pope. In a statement in May, the Vatican said the meeting would urge the leaders to support peace “in agreement, as far as possible,” with the Roman church and Orthodox Church. |
| Mr. Dugin — who briefly had currency in Mr. Putin’s orbit and maintains a committed following among nationalists, neo-fascists and European identitarians — said he had noticed that the mysticism of the Russian Orthodox Church, to which he belongs, had drawn converts from Catholics frustrated by the liberalism of their church. | Mr. Dugin — who briefly had currency in Mr. Putin’s orbit and maintains a committed following among nationalists, neo-fascists and European identitarians — said he had noticed that the mysticism of the Russian Orthodox Church, to which he belongs, had drawn converts from Catholics frustrated by the liberalism of their church. |
| But not all Catholic traditionalists see Mr. Putin as their savior. | But not all Catholic traditionalists see Mr. Putin as their savior. |
| Roberto de Mattei, the president of the Lepanto Foundation — which is deeply critical of Francis for what is calls his failure to defend Europe’s Christian roots from Islam — said he did not share the sympathy some Catholic traditionalists feel toward Mr. Putin. | Roberto de Mattei, the president of the Lepanto Foundation — which is deeply critical of Francis for what is calls his failure to defend Europe’s Christian roots from Islam — said he did not share the sympathy some Catholic traditionalists feel toward Mr. Putin. |
| He said he suspected that the Russian leader was waging a “political operation” by trying to attract support on the European right with his talk of traditional values. “My fear is there is a double game,” Mr. de Mattei said, adding that he felt stuck on a chessboard between Mr. Putin and Pope Francis, while “the West doesn’t have a real leader.” | |