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| Jerusalem Diary: Monday 17 Nov | Jerusalem Diary: Monday 17 Nov |
| (5 days later) | |
| By Tim Franks BBC News, Jerusalem UNEXPECTED SUPPORT | By Tim Franks BBC News, Jerusalem UNEXPECTED SUPPORT |
| Every so often, I receive an email which prompts a double-take. | Every so often, I receive an email which prompts a double-take. |
| This was the top-line of a "media alert" from the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, on 29 October at 2.14pm: | This was the top-line of a "media alert" from the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, on 29 October at 2.14pm: |
| The police don't want us to pray in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. This is not just a violation of our right to freedom of movement, but to political expressions and freedom to worship Yehuda Shaul "ACRI welcomes today's Supreme Court decision to allow a group of right-wing Jewish activists to demonstrate in Umm al-Fahm, an Israeli city populated almost entirely by Arab citizens." | The police don't want us to pray in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. This is not just a violation of our right to freedom of movement, but to political expressions and freedom to worship Yehuda Shaul "ACRI welcomes today's Supreme Court decision to allow a group of right-wing Jewish activists to demonstrate in Umm al-Fahm, an Israeli city populated almost entirely by Arab citizens." |
| The application to hold the march had been opposed by the police and a range of Jewish and Arab figures inside Israel. ACRI had swallowed hard and proclaimed that the right to free speech must be upheld. | The application to hold the march had been opposed by the police and a range of Jewish and Arab figures inside Israel. ACRI had swallowed hard and proclaimed that the right to free speech must be upheld. |
| One of the march organisers is Itamar Ben-Gvir. He is a fleshy and dishevelled man in his early 30s, a wry smile at the corner of his lips, his beard flecked with grey, his eyes creased behind crooked, thick-framed oval glasses. | One of the march organisers is Itamar Ben-Gvir. He is a fleshy and dishevelled man in his early 30s, a wry smile at the corner of his lips, his beard flecked with grey, his eyes creased behind crooked, thick-framed oval glasses. |
| A few days ago, I saw him in Hebron - the city in the West Bank populated by a few hundred Jewish settlers, several hundred Israeli soldiers, and 160,000 Palestinians. | A few days ago, I saw him in Hebron - the city in the West Bank populated by a few hundred Jewish settlers, several hundred Israeli soldiers, and 160,000 Palestinians. |
| Itamar was a little late for our meeting. He was taking the opportunity to berate a group of American rabbis. | Itamar was a little late for our meeting. He was taking the opportunity to berate a group of American rabbis. |
| The rabbis were part of a tour being led by Breaking the Silence, a group of Israeli former soldiers who, in their words, want to "expose the reality of the occupation". If Israel wants to be a modern country it must obey international standards and laws. It's not fair that both Jews and Arabs live in fear and anger each day! Paloma, Madrid, Spain | The rabbis were part of a tour being led by Breaking the Silence, a group of Israeli former soldiers who, in their words, want to "expose the reality of the occupation". If Israel wants to be a modern country it must obey international standards and laws. It's not fair that both Jews and Arabs live in fear and anger each day! Paloma, Madrid, Spain |
| Itamar, who himself lives close to Hebron, does not appreciate the presence of Breaking the Silence, and was expressing his views volubly. | Itamar, who himself lives close to Hebron, does not appreciate the presence of Breaking the Silence, and was expressing his views volubly. |
| The tour leader, Yehuda Shaul, soon had another argument to contend with. He became embroiled in a finger-jabbing row with one of the 20 or so policemen surrounding the group. | The tour leader, Yehuda Shaul, soon had another argument to contend with. He became embroiled in a finger-jabbing row with one of the 20 or so policemen surrounding the group. |
| The commanding officer was refusing the group entry to one of Judaism (and Islam's) holiest sites, the Tomb of the Patriarchs. | The commanding officer was refusing the group entry to one of Judaism (and Islam's) holiest sites, the Tomb of the Patriarchs. |
| "You didn't give us advance warning, and it's for your own protection," the officer explained. | "You didn't give us advance warning, and it's for your own protection," the officer explained. |
| Yehuda Shaul insisted that the police had known, weeks in advance, that this group would be coming, and that a visit to the tomb was part of the tour. | Yehuda Shaul insisted that the police had known, weeks in advance, that this group would be coming, and that a visit to the tomb was part of the tour. |
| The police officer would not budge. Just before his group trudged off, defeated, to the tour bus, Yehuda turned to me and laughed at the irony. | The police officer would not budge. Just before his group trudged off, defeated, to the tour bus, Yehuda turned to me and laughed at the irony. |
| "These are rabbis, religious leaders from the American Jewish community. The police don't want us to pray in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. This is not just a violation of our right to freedom of movement, but to political expressions and freedom to worship." | "These are rabbis, religious leaders from the American Jewish community. The police don't want us to pray in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. This is not just a violation of our right to freedom of movement, but to political expressions and freedom to worship." |
| 'DEPORT THE ARABS' | 'DEPORT THE ARABS' |
| When Itamar Ben-Gvir was arguing his case in court for permission to hold a march in Umm al-Fahm, he used, as a precedent, the example of tours such as those organised by Breaking the Silence in Hebron. They are just as provocative, was his argument, in essence. | When Itamar Ben-Gvir was arguing his case in court for permission to hold a march in Umm al-Fahm, he used, as a precedent, the example of tours such as those organised by Breaking the Silence in Hebron. They are just as provocative, was his argument, in essence. |
| A racist is someone who comes and takes a stand in favour of the Arabs... who tells us, you are Jews and can't live in Hebron, but the Arabs can live in Umm al-Fahm Itamar Ben-Gvir Itamar does not just want to prove a point by holding a march. He also wants to deliver a message to the almost wholly Arab population of Umm al-Fahm. | A racist is someone who comes and takes a stand in favour of the Arabs... who tells us, you are Jews and can't live in Hebron, but the Arabs can live in Umm al-Fahm Itamar Ben-Gvir Itamar does not just want to prove a point by holding a march. He also wants to deliver a message to the almost wholly Arab population of Umm al-Fahm. |
| "The Jewish people don't have another country, and the Arabs have 21 countries. We have a small country, and from this they want to uproot us." | "The Jewish people don't have another country, and the Arabs have 21 countries. We have a small country, and from this they want to uproot us." |
| His wish is simple: "When you have a people that rise against you, kills you, massacres you, wants to take your home - you shouldn't let them stay. They should be deported." | His wish is simple: "When you have a people that rise against you, kills you, massacres you, wants to take your home - you shouldn't let them stay. They should be deported." |
| Most Israelis would disavow Itamar's views as racist. Is he? | Most Israelis would disavow Itamar's views as racist. Is he? |
| "A racist is someone who comes and immediately takes a stand in favour of the Arabs. This is the racism: those who tell us, you are Jews and can't live here (in Hebron), but the Arabs can live here and in Umm al-Fahm." | "A racist is someone who comes and immediately takes a stand in favour of the Arabs. This is the racism: those who tell us, you are Jews and can't live here (in Hebron), but the Arabs can live here and in Umm al-Fahm." |
| Later, on his return to Jerusalem, following his truncated tour of Hebron, I spoke again to Yehuda Shaul. | Later, on his return to Jerusalem, following his truncated tour of Hebron, I spoke again to Yehuda Shaul. |
| He agreed that Itamar Ben-Gvir should be allowed to march. But he said his tours and Itamar's demonstration are not comparable. | He agreed that Itamar Ben-Gvir should be allowed to march. But he said his tours and Itamar's demonstration are not comparable. |
| "We don't have megaphones, slogans, flags, banners," Yehuda said. "This is an information tour. We don't need a licence from the authorities. Anyone can come to Hebron: you can just get on Bus 160 from the Central Bus Station (in Jerusalem). And if the state can't protect us? Then they should use more police and soldiers." | "We don't have megaphones, slogans, flags, banners," Yehuda said. "This is an information tour. We don't need a licence from the authorities. Anyone can come to Hebron: you can just get on Bus 160 from the Central Bus Station (in Jerusalem). And if the state can't protect us? Then they should use more police and soldiers." |
| Here are a selection of your thoughts on Tim Franks' diary: | |
| As a clinical psychologist I have often come across this type of narrow, one-sided non reflexive way of thinking. It is most often associated with pathology. It is often very difficult to make a change because of the resistance or (most often) inability to shift perspective. Most often these people are unable to feel uncertain, the major incentive to investigate a matter further. Once I took a course in "argumentation". The rules are to take a topic, make two teams, flip a coin which side to argue and then go for "winning". Try it at home or with friends and you get the firsthand experience of being an extremist.Mikael Scharin, Gothenburg, Sweden | |
| I really don't mind having an Israeli state in the Middle East. I just want the US and the rest of the world to cut financial aid to Israel and see how long it would survive. Personally, I don't want my taxes to go there!An American, Tempe, Az | |
| The short answer for all those who complain that if Palestinians are allowed to live in Israel then Israelis should be allowed to live in the Occupied Territories is that they are not comparing like with like. The Palestinians who live in Israel are long-term residents of the country. The Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have been encouraged to settle on Palestinian land by Israel, who is the occupying power. This is contrary both to UN Resolutions and the Geneva Conventions, which is why the practice sparks such anger and must be reversed if there is to be a just and lasting peace.JC Williams, Nicosia Cyprus | |
| Boy, where does one start? The rhetoric used by Mr. Ben-Gvir is self serving. It ignores reality and accommodates his narrow point of view. Extremists on all side of this equation are guilty of this kind of thinking. The fact of the matter is that the Jews are not going anywhere and neither are the Palestinians. They're going to have to come up with an equitable compromise at some point. Now all they need is a fair broker to help bring them to that place.Pierre Khoury, San Francisco, CA, US | |
| Ariel Ben David, Palestine is the homeland of Palestinians may they be Jews or Arabs. Pakistan, Jordan or Syria are different countries. And Alan whole world is not against Jews but people like Itamar do raise racist tensions. Everyone knows that Jerusalem is sacred to all Muslims, Jews and Christians so the debate of Israel being given to Jews is worthless. I am a Muslim with Jewish origins and I only ask if all the three religions have same God why we fight? How many crusades and holocausts we have to see?Dr Huma Khan, Pakistan, Lahore | |
| I am not sure whether giving a voice to right-wing fundamentalist Jewish settlers in this fashion actually serves or hurts their cause. One thing is for certain, the BBC and other Western media would not present the words of a right-wing extremist Muslim in the same light as that of an extremist Jewish Israeli. One seems to be made more "mainstream", probably because the West naturally sympathizes with Christian-Judeo culture, but more importantly, because of the years of propaganda and influence that has been propagated by Western powers and Israel to legitimize the military occupation. Rabie Masri, Beirut, Lebanon | |
| I wish I could say I find it strange that so many people who commented on this story talk about how Israel 'uprooted' so many Arabs, but it's all too commonplace. To F. Haddad and others like him - what about the hundreds of thousands of Jews who lived in Arab countries and were also uprooted from their homes when Israel was established? Are they not also worthy of having some compensation? For all the talk of 'uprooting', people should remember that Israel is hardly the first, nor last, country to be established on disputed territory. D. Hammer, Amsterdam, The Netherlands | |
| When does someone's right to 'free speech' supersede the right of an individual to reside in peace without fear or harassment? With free speech comes responsibility and too many civil rights/free speech organisations are happy to push for these rights without addressing the rights of others or the consequences of allowing these rights to be expressed. When Ben-Giver talks about 'deporting' Arabs he would do well to remember the early stages of the Holocaust in particular some of the Nuremberg laws. Furhan Majid, United Kingdom | |
| It makes me laugh when people post comments like "Israel itself was created by violently uprooting the indigenous Arab population", well to middle east Jews like me who where ethnically-cleansed by the Arabs but nobody wants to talk about that... Boaz, Jerusalem, Israel | |
| To Mr Franks...it's a real shame that you choose to give fascists like him an opportunity to express his views "as any other normal citizen"..the man is out of any consensus even in the Israeli street!Yazeed Barghouthy, Nazareth | |
| Reading all the comments both here and in virtually all messenger posts regarding the Israel-Palestinian conflict I am struck by the total lack of any sympathy whatsoever for the Israeli case which, actually, happens to be very strong indeed. As a non religious Jew I always thought that those Jews who said "the whole world (with the notable exception of America) is against us" were paranoid. Now I'm thinking that perhaps they're right. And for those who hark on about the Palestinians having been driven from their homes please also remember the millions of Jews from Arab countries who were also driven from their homes. Alan, London, UK | |
| It doesn't matter if there are 21 Arab countries. The Palestinians are indigenous to the land. There is also something called international law, and the Palestinians are Israel citizens, while the Arabs of Hebron are not citizens, and it is not that Itmar wants them to become citizens, so he does support racism. Let's call a spade a spade.Basil Keilani, Montreal | |
| Why is OK for the UN to expect us to remove Israelis from JUDEA and SAMARIA ('West Bank') and but have no such demands that the Palestinians remove Palestinian populations from Israel?Akiva Goldberg, Jerusalem, Israel | |
| I am surprised that you are acting as a mouth piece of radicals/racists like these. Wish you give such a sympathetic treatment to radicals on the other side of the conflict too. Mansoor, Vizag,India | |
| I think he is racist as not all Arabs are allowed into Israel proper. Most Palestinians in Hebron and the rest of the West Bank are denied access to Israel. So if Israel reverses its decision and lets all Palestinians live where they want, there will be no problem, but look at all the Arab homes in Israel being destroyed because Israel refuses to grant building permits to Arabs. The settlers in Hebron would be in a better situation if they didn't harass their Arab neighbours, we all know it happens there and else where in the West Bank. Evan, Boston, USA | |
| His point was clear. If Arabs can live in Israel then why can't Jews live in Hebron? If Jews are denied the right to live in Hebron for simply being Jewish, then is it fair that Arabs can live in Israel? One law for people A, one law for people B!Jonathan, Ilford | |
| Sure, there are 22 Arab countries. But there's only one Palestine, and that's where the Palestinians will live forever. I wonder where Itamar was born.Jasem, Dubai, UAE | |
| F. Haddad, did you consider that in 1948 before the "tragedy" of the creation of the state of Israel, both the Jews and the Arabs were offered the land to share? The Jews accepted the possibility of sharing Palestine as it was then known. The Arabs decided not to, going for all or nothing. Unfortunately for them, such an approach has cost them and is still costing them dearly. Mr Ben-Gvir admittedly does view things in an overly-simple manner, but I'd argue that he has a valid point in that this is the only land the Jews have got to call their own. Ultimately both sides would do well to realise that the other is not going to disappear, and should make international borders a reality as soon as possible.Israeli Corporal, Jerusalem | |
| Israel is often described as the only Democracy in the Middle East. In a democracy everyone is equal before the law. When a religious/ethnic group is the basis for a country/state, can democracy be possible? Or, is it doomed to be a country that can not be a democracy in its most basic meaning? Has anyone asked the Arab or Palestinian living in Israel, whether its democracy works for them? Probably. But did anyone listen to their answer?Rosa Poladian, London, Ontario, Canada | |
| "The Jewish people don't have another country, and the Arabs have 21 countries" ... Utter rubbish. Each Arab country has its own culture and nationality. Palestinians belong in Palestine and that's the truth; not Jordan, Syria etc. By using the terminology 'Arabs' collectively, this man is proving he is highly ignorant! That's like telling a French person to leave their country by force and settle somewhere else in Europe that happens to speak French. After all, it's all European!Dania, London | |
| Besides marginal figures like Mr. Ben-Gvir and several dozen others, there is a real political movement in Israel which held very similar views. Its popular support is in millions and it's high time its views made more widely known in the West. The only problem with this movement is it's an Arab one. It's called Hamas. Does Mr Franks believe that Mr Ben-Gvir is a bigger obstacle to the peace than Mr Haniyah?Vasia, Sterling, US | |
| In reply to Yusuf, the Palestinians have the right to live in the 21 Arab and Muslim countries whilst Jews aren't allowed in, so comparing it to Wales and Europe is just taking it out of context... We ask for a tiny piece of land... there's no oil there which the Arabs have and has made them very rich... so why do Palestinians need this tiny bit of land? Why can't Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan give them a strip of land to live on...why is it that they "need" to have Israel...it was given to the Jewish people.Ariel Ben-David, Salford, Manchester | |
| I'm not saying that I agree with everything he says, but no one so far has addressed his point - why can Arabs live in Um al Fahm but Jews not live in Hebron?Yedidya Kennard, Jerusalem, Israel | |
| Mr Ben-Gvir's very biased and simplistic equation of "Arabs rise against you...therefore they should be deported" is loud enough; and doesn't deserve a debate on whether he is or is not a racist. Unfortunately, his views are shared by more than a small minority. That Africans had other countries than RSA during the Apartheid era was of little consolation for South Africans. It's about time Israel looks at its domestic extremism with a less forgiving stance.F. Haddad, The Netherlands | |
| Surely Freedom of Speech is important. But what if that Freedom is used in a deceptive, inaccurate way. Itamar Ben-Gvir can rightly point to 21 Arab and Muslim countries but is that sufficient justification for the Palestinians to be ethnically-cleansed from their homes and land? It's funny how American Jews are mentioned in this article as they have an American roadmap of how their indigenous people were cleansed too! Yusuf Ola, Batley, England | |
| I think Itamar should open his eyes and take a good look in the mirror. He complains of feeling "uprooted" by Arabs that want to take his home, yet ignores that Israel itself was created by violently uprooting the indigenous Arab population, taking their homes and implanting foreign Jewish immigrants (of which he may be a descendant). Once Israelis abandon the notion that they have divine rights over what was and is Arab land, they will be more agreeable to international laws which require Israel to give back the land it took from the Arabs and allow the return of refugees.Ibrahim, London, UK | |
| "The Jewish people don't have another country, and the Arabs have 21 countries" Itamar Ben-Gvir. This is a bit like saying the EU has 27 member countries, so only the Welsh should be allowed to live in England, the English can easily move to another member state since they're all Europeans. The point is the Israelis are intent on changing the demographic make-up of the Occupied Territories. This is unfair, unethical and illegal: the world is deeply at fault in not opposing it. A bit more indignation from Mr Franks would not go amiss.JC Williams, Nicosia, Cyprus | |
| This was an interesting read! I just found it ironic what Ben-Gvir said: "When you have a people that rise against you, kills you, massacres you, wants to take your home - you shouldn't let them stay. They should be deported." Isn't that what the Jews do to the Arabs??? If Israel wants to be a modern country it must obey international standards and laws. It's not fair that both Jews and Arabs live in fear and anger each day! I hope things get better for the sake of humanity! Paloma, Madrid, Spain | |
| Itamar Ben-Gvir's views highlights the size of the mountain that has to be climbed to get close to a solution in the Middle East. He plays on the popular notion that Israelis are victims and are being targetted unfairly. I feel that the only way forward is to move towards secularism. This would be true for Israel's neighbours as well. The fundamentalists in the region fan the flames of hatred. A.Osman, Johannesburg, South Africa |