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Data plan 'not in Queen's Speech' Database would 'stop terrorists'
(about 5 hours later)
The government has confirmed plans to give police and security services more power to store e-mail and phone data will not be in the Queen's Speech. Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon has said that not monitoring mobile and web records would be "giving a licence to terrorists to kill people".
Jacqui Smith said on Wednesday a consultation would be held on the controversial plan in the New Year. In exchanges on BBC One's Question Time he said terrorists used the internet to communicate with one another.
But the home secretary did not say if it would be dropped from the government's legislative programme for the next Parliamentary session. Mr Hoon said was prepared to go "quite a long way" to "stop terrorists killing people in our society".
Commons leader Harriet Harman earlier confirmed it would be delayed. Lib Dem MP Julia Goldsworthy questioned how far civil liberties would be "undermined" by such a database.
Ms Harman faced calls in the Commons from the Conservatives and Lib Dems, who both oppose the plan, for a debate on the draft Communications Data Bill, in which it was due to be outlined. Earlier the government confirmed the controversial plans would not be in the Queen's Speech.
The bill had been due to be in next month's Queen's Speech, which sets out the government's legislative programme for the year ahead. On Question Time, Mr Hoon said the plans would only extend powers that already exist for ordinary telephone calls, to cover data and information "going across the internet".
It was included in a list of draft bills published before Parliament's summer recess, but Ms Harman said it would now be put out to further consultation. If they are going to use the internet to communicate with each other and we don't have the power to deal with that, then you are giving a licence to terrorists to kill people Geoff HoonTransport secretary
Giant database He said the police and security services needed the powers to deal with "terrorists or criminals" using telephones connected to the internet, for "perfectly proper reasons, to protect our society".
But the Lib Dems' communities spokeswoman Julia Goldsworthy said it sounded like "something I would expect to read in [George Orwell's book] 1984" and questioned whether the government and councils could be trusted not to misuse the powers.
She asked: "How much more control can they have? How far is he prepared to go to undermine civil liberties?"
Mr Hoon interjected: "To stop terrorists killing people in our society, quite a long way actually.
"If they are going to use the internet to communicate with each other and we don't have the power to deal with that, then you are giving a licence to terrorists to kill people."
'Orwellian'
He added: "The biggest civil liberty of all is not to be killed by a terrorist."
The plans were condemned as "Orwellian" on Wednesday by the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives have called on the government to justify proposals for a giant database containing all internet and telephone traffic.
Details of the times, dates, duration and locations of mobile phone calls, numbers called, website visited and addresses e-mailed are already stored by telecommunications companies for 12 months under a voluntary agreement.
The data can be accessed by police on request but the government plans to take control of the process in order to comply with an EU directive and make it easier for investigators to do their job.
Information would be kept for two years by law and may be held centrally on a searchable database. The government had also promised new laws to protect civil liberties.
Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said pulling all the information together in a central server, to be managed by government, "represents a very profound change in the relationship between the state and the citizen".
In a speech on Wednesday Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said a consultation would be held on the controversial plan in the New Year but did not say if it would be dropped from the Queen's Speech which sets out the government's legislative programme for the year ahead
However, on Thursday Commons leader Harriet Harman confirmed it would be delayed after calls in the Commons from the Conservatives and Lib Dems for a debate on the draft Communications Data Bill, in which it was due to be outlined.
'No content'
She told MPs: "The draft communication bill was in the draft legislative programme and a number of issues and concerns have been raised about it.She told MPs: "The draft communication bill was in the draft legislative programme and a number of issues and concerns have been raised about it.
"The home secretary makes it clear that at all times, on important issues such as these, she wants to listen to what people's concerns are, she wants to consider those concerns, she wants to consult on a bipartisan and wide basis.""The home secretary makes it clear that at all times, on important issues such as these, she wants to listen to what people's concerns are, she wants to consider those concerns, she wants to consult on a bipartisan and wide basis."
These proposals are incompatible with a free country and a free people Chris Huhne Lib Dem home affairs class="" href="http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5503">Send us your comments On Wednesday Ms Smith attempted to reassure people that the content of their e-mails and phone conversations would not be stored and local authorities would not be able to trawl through looking for "lower level criminality".
She added that instead of pushing through legislation in the next Parliamentary session, Ms Smith would consult further and may publish draft clauses for people to comment on.
Among the ideas being considered by the government is a giant database containing all internet and telephone traffic.
Details of the times, dates, duration and locations of mobile phone calls, numbers called, website visited and addresses e-mailed are already stored by telecommunications companies for 12 months under a voluntary agreement.
The data can be accessed by the police and security services on request - but the government plans to take control of the process in order to comply with an EU directive and make it easier for investigators to do their job.
'Open debate'
The police and security services would have to consider a "massive expansion of surveillance" if their capacity to store data was not increased, Ms Smith said in a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research on Wednesday.
She said the "changes we need to make may require legislation".
There will also be new laws to protect civil liberties, Ms Smith added, and she announced a public consultation starting in the New Year on the plans.
"I want this to be combined with a well-informed debate characterised by openness, rather than mere opinion, by reason and reasonableness," she told the IPPR.
'Strict controls'
Ms Smith attempted to reassure people that the content of their e-mails and phone conversations would not be stored.
"There are no plans for an enormous database which will contain the content of your emails, the texts that you send or the chats you have on the phone or online.
"Nor are we going to give local authorities the power to trawl through such a database in the interest of investigating lower level criminality under the spurious cover of counter terrorist legislation."
But the proposals came under fire from critics, including the government's own reviewer of anti-terror laws, Lord Carlile, who said it would need "very strict controls".But the proposals came under fire from critics, including the government's own reviewer of anti-terror laws, Lord Carlile, who said it would need "very strict controls".
Lib Dem home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "The government's Orwellian plans for a vast database of our private communications are deeply worrying.
"I hope that this consultation is not just a sham exercise to soft-soap an unsuspecting public."