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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/24/ireland-votes-no-abortion-vote-campaigners-panel-referendum-eighth-amendment
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| What happens if Ireland votes no to abortion? Views from both sides | What happens if Ireland votes no to abortion? Views from both sides |
| (17 days later) | |
| Katherine Zappone: We will be denying pregnant girls our compassion | Katherine Zappone: We will be denying pregnant girls our compassion |
| We have a sad history in Ireland of sometimes treating children very badly. While we are now finding ways of coming to terms with that history, terrible things still happen to children. I spend every day of my working life trying to prevent them, but unfortunately the constitution ties my hands when those terrible things result in girls becoming pregnant. | We have a sad history in Ireland of sometimes treating children very badly. While we are now finding ways of coming to terms with that history, terrible things still happen to children. I spend every day of my working life trying to prevent them, but unfortunately the constitution ties my hands when those terrible things result in girls becoming pregnant. |
| Under the eighth amendment, those girls have only three options. They can stay pregnant, they can travel abroad for an abortion, or they can illegally self-administer an abortion, having ordered pills online. | Under the eighth amendment, those girls have only three options. They can stay pregnant, they can travel abroad for an abortion, or they can illegally self-administer an abortion, having ordered pills online. |
| The Guardian view on the abortion referendum: Ireland’s choice will have a global impact | Editorial | The Guardian view on the abortion referendum: Ireland’s choice will have a global impact | Editorial |
| As a state we can only support that girl properly when she stays pregnant. Even then, all the eighth amendment requires is that we make sure she is not dead by the end of the pregnancy. Even if pregnancy will lead to catastrophic ill health, she cannot access lawful abortion in Ireland. That is not a just law. The eighth amendment means we cannot provide compassionate, supportive care for a pregnant teenage girl in her GP’s surgery if she decides that ending the pregnancy is right for her. This is profoundly wrong. If we vote no, it will not and cannot change. Advocates for the no vote tell us this is about children’s rights. In some ways they are right. It is about the rights of our born and pregnant girls to healthcare, to support, and to their childhood. | As a state we can only support that girl properly when she stays pregnant. Even then, all the eighth amendment requires is that we make sure she is not dead by the end of the pregnancy. Even if pregnancy will lead to catastrophic ill health, she cannot access lawful abortion in Ireland. That is not a just law. The eighth amendment means we cannot provide compassionate, supportive care for a pregnant teenage girl in her GP’s surgery if she decides that ending the pregnancy is right for her. This is profoundly wrong. If we vote no, it will not and cannot change. Advocates for the no vote tell us this is about children’s rights. In some ways they are right. It is about the rights of our born and pregnant girls to healthcare, to support, and to their childhood. |
| • Dr Katherine Zappone is Ireland’s minister for children and youth affairs | • Dr Katherine Zappone is Ireland’s minister for children and youth affairs |
| John Bruton: A no vote will help the state protect unborn babies | John Bruton: A no vote will help the state protect unborn babies |
| Who is human? Is a baby, before birth, human; and if so, ought the baby have any human rights? To admit that an unborn baby is human but to deny it all human rights is both illogical and dangerous. That is the issue at the heart of the referendum. The right to life is the primary human right, because without a right to life one cannot exercise other human rights. | Who is human? Is a baby, before birth, human; and if so, ought the baby have any human rights? To admit that an unborn baby is human but to deny it all human rights is both illogical and dangerous. That is the issue at the heart of the referendum. The right to life is the primary human right, because without a right to life one cannot exercise other human rights. |
| It is hard to argue that a baby before it is born is anything but human. It is not a random collection of cells. Ultrasound enables us to see its human characteristics, and to see that it can move autonomously. If it is not human, what is it? | It is hard to argue that a baby before it is born is anything but human. It is not a random collection of cells. Ultrasound enables us to see its human characteristics, and to see that it can move autonomously. If it is not human, what is it? |
| Some say that a baby, before birth, is totally dependent on its mother, and thus can have no rights of its own. This is a dangerous argument. Dependency is part of life, and not a sound ground for denying humanity, or any human rights. | Some say that a baby, before birth, is totally dependent on its mother, and thus can have no rights of its own. This is a dangerous argument. Dependency is part of life, and not a sound ground for denying humanity, or any human rights. |
| The taking of the life of another, without its consent, can never be a purely private matter, for a woman or for a man. It is not enough to say we should “trust women” on an abortion decision. This is because the ending of the life of another human is inherently a matter of public policy. | The taking of the life of another, without its consent, can never be a purely private matter, for a woman or for a man. It is not enough to say we should “trust women” on an abortion decision. This is because the ending of the life of another human is inherently a matter of public policy. |
| Indeed, if human rights are to have any meaning, their vindication is necessarily a matter for the state. Surely if the state has a right and obligation to step in to protect a one-month-old baby from abuse, it also has a right, four months earlier, to protect it from being “terminated”. Abortion ends a life. Once it has happened, there is no going back, no recovery. It is final. | Indeed, if human rights are to have any meaning, their vindication is necessarily a matter for the state. Surely if the state has a right and obligation to step in to protect a one-month-old baby from abuse, it also has a right, four months earlier, to protect it from being “terminated”. Abortion ends a life. Once it has happened, there is no going back, no recovery. It is final. |
| The proposed amendment to the constitution is far-reaching. It does not attempt to limit, or qualify, the present constitutional right to life of the baby before birth. It proposes to abolish it completely. If the Irish people vote no on Friday, the government will be forced to reconsider this radical approach. | The proposed amendment to the constitution is far-reaching. It does not attempt to limit, or qualify, the present constitutional right to life of the baby before birth. It proposes to abolish it completely. If the Irish people vote no on Friday, the government will be forced to reconsider this radical approach. |
| It may then either attempt a more modest constitutional change or leave things as they are. Either way, fewer babies will be denied the right to be born, and will be allowed to make their own choices in life. | It may then either attempt a more modest constitutional change or leave things as they are. Either way, fewer babies will be denied the right to be born, and will be allowed to make their own choices in life. |
| That is why I am urging people to vote no. | That is why I am urging people to vote no. |
| • John Bruton was the Irish taoiseach from 1994 to 1997 | • John Bruton was the Irish taoiseach from 1994 to 1997 |
| Fiona de Londras: This inhuman and degrading treatment will carry on | Fiona de Londras: This inhuman and degrading treatment will carry on |
| Abortion is illegal in almost all circumstances in Ireland. The eighth amendment to the constitution means that it has to be. | Abortion is illegal in almost all circumstances in Ireland. The eighth amendment to the constitution means that it has to be. |
| It says that the state recognises the right to life of the “unborn” as being equal to the right to life of the “mother”. In real terms that means that abortion is allowed only where there is a real and substantial risk to a woman’s life. | It says that the state recognises the right to life of the “unborn” as being equal to the right to life of the “mother”. In real terms that means that abortion is allowed only where there is a real and substantial risk to a woman’s life. |
| This is an absolutist and uncompromising provision. There are no exceptions. Under it, all women who are pregnant have the obligation to continue with that pregnancy in Ireland. Since 1992 we paradoxically also have the right to travel abroad in order to access abortion, and a (heavily restricted) right to receive information about abortion (although only when we also receive information about adoption and parenting). | This is an absolutist and uncompromising provision. There are no exceptions. Under it, all women who are pregnant have the obligation to continue with that pregnancy in Ireland. Since 1992 we paradoxically also have the right to travel abroad in order to access abortion, and a (heavily restricted) right to receive information about abortion (although only when we also receive information about adoption and parenting). |
| The UN human rights committee has found (in the cases of Amanda Mellet and Siobhán Whelan) that criminalising abortion in cases of fatal foetal anomaly caused hurt and suffering of such intensity as to violate the right to be free from torture, inhuman and degrading treatment. Adolescent girls have a right to reproductive healthcare under the convention on the rights of the child; that is denied them under the eighth too. | The UN human rights committee has found (in the cases of Amanda Mellet and Siobhán Whelan) that criminalising abortion in cases of fatal foetal anomaly caused hurt and suffering of such intensity as to violate the right to be free from torture, inhuman and degrading treatment. Adolescent girls have a right to reproductive healthcare under the convention on the rights of the child; that is denied them under the eighth too. |
| If Ireland votes no on Friday, this cannot change. Even if there were 1,000 adverse decisions against Ireland in international human rights bodies, we could not legalise abortion in cases of fatal foetal anomaly, rape or risk of serious harm to health. Any law passed to do so would be unconstitutional, and the constitution can be changed only by a referendum of the people. | If Ireland votes no on Friday, this cannot change. Even if there were 1,000 adverse decisions against Ireland in international human rights bodies, we could not legalise abortion in cases of fatal foetal anomaly, rape or risk of serious harm to health. Any law passed to do so would be unconstitutional, and the constitution can be changed only by a referendum of the people. |
| • Fiona de Londras is professor of global legal studies at Birmingham Law School, the University of Birmingham. She was born and grew up in Ireland. | • Fiona de Londras is professor of global legal studies at Birmingham Law School, the University of Birmingham. She was born and grew up in Ireland. |
| Laoise Ní Dhubhrosa: Ireland will remain a culturally pro-life country | Laoise Ní Dhubhrosa: Ireland will remain a culturally pro-life country |
| The eighth amendment to the Irish constitution is a powerful and progressive human rights statement. Abortion campaigners say it endangers women, but according to the World Health Organization Ireland is the joint sixth safest country in the world in which to give birth. | The eighth amendment to the Irish constitution is a powerful and progressive human rights statement. Abortion campaigners say it endangers women, but according to the World Health Organization Ireland is the joint sixth safest country in the world in which to give birth. |
| The organisation that I cofounded last year (London Irish United for Life) has contributed to the no side in the referendum by organising a Home to Vote No campaign. We encourage Irish emigrants in the UK who are eligible to vote to return home and vote no. One of the referendum-related trending hashtags is #TooFarForMe. It has become popular among people who support abortion access in “hard cases” but who feel the Irish government has over-reached and proposed an abortion regime that simply goes too far. | The organisation that I cofounded last year (London Irish United for Life) has contributed to the no side in the referendum by organising a Home to Vote No campaign. We encourage Irish emigrants in the UK who are eligible to vote to return home and vote no. One of the referendum-related trending hashtags is #TooFarForMe. It has become popular among people who support abortion access in “hard cases” but who feel the Irish government has over-reached and proposed an abortion regime that simply goes too far. |
| The UK ignored the Irish abortion question for too long – it was a failure of solidarity | The UK ignored the Irish abortion question for too long – it was a failure of solidarity |
| Some voters also voice discomfort at the possibility that Ireland might, if it repeals the eighth amendment, end up with a similar “abortion culture” to that which prevails in the UK. Irish voters hear that there have been nearly 9 million recorded abortions since the 1967 UK Abortion Act was introduced. That’s twice the population of the Republic of Ireland. | Some voters also voice discomfort at the possibility that Ireland might, if it repeals the eighth amendment, end up with a similar “abortion culture” to that which prevails in the UK. Irish voters hear that there have been nearly 9 million recorded abortions since the 1967 UK Abortion Act was introduced. That’s twice the population of the Republic of Ireland. |
| Abortion on vague mental health grounds is another cause for alarm. Some 97% of abortions in England and Wales occur under ground C of the act (a risk to physical and mental health). But in 2016, of the 180,794 abortions performed under ground C only 60 were for physical health reasons. Many worry that the mental health provisions are de facto abortion on demand. | Abortion on vague mental health grounds is another cause for alarm. Some 97% of abortions in England and Wales occur under ground C of the act (a risk to physical and mental health). But in 2016, of the 180,794 abortions performed under ground C only 60 were for physical health reasons. Many worry that the mental health provisions are de facto abortion on demand. |
| The Irish government has tried to allay concerns over privatised abortion chains such as Marie Stopes setting up stall in Ireland. It says Irish abortion will be a GP-led service. However, in an already overstretched health service, health professionals are concerned about where the extra resources and time will come. | The Irish government has tried to allay concerns over privatised abortion chains such as Marie Stopes setting up stall in Ireland. It says Irish abortion will be a GP-led service. However, in an already overstretched health service, health professionals are concerned about where the extra resources and time will come. |
| Irish voters may very well cause an upset on Friday and reject the abortion proposals before them. I would contest that Ireland is still a culturally pro-life country and one in which people have deep misgivings about abortion. The right to life of the unborn may prove harder to get rid of than abortion campaigners and their allies in government anticipated. | Irish voters may very well cause an upset on Friday and reject the abortion proposals before them. I would contest that Ireland is still a culturally pro-life country and one in which people have deep misgivings about abortion. The right to life of the unborn may prove harder to get rid of than abortion campaigners and their allies in government anticipated. |
| • Laoise Ní Dhubhrosa is the cofounder of London Irish United for Life | • Laoise Ní Dhubhrosa is the cofounder of London Irish United for Life |
| Mary Higgins: If this fails, we will continue being unable to truly care for our patients I am one of many obstetric specialists who have turned to a happy couple and said to them, “I am so sorry” as I start to gently break the news that their much wanted baby has a fatal foetal abnormality. The anticipated birth is now associated with a funeral. If she wishes to end her pregnancy earlier, we cannot help her. | Mary Higgins: If this fails, we will continue being unable to truly care for our patients I am one of many obstetric specialists who have turned to a happy couple and said to them, “I am so sorry” as I start to gently break the news that their much wanted baby has a fatal foetal abnormality. The anticipated birth is now associated with a funeral. If she wishes to end her pregnancy earlier, we cannot help her. |
| I am one of many doctors who have seen young girls and women attending an early pregnancy unit, hoping that they would be diagnosed with a miscarriage so they would not have to get on a plane or a boat the next day to travel abroad for an abortion. | I am one of many doctors who have seen young girls and women attending an early pregnancy unit, hoping that they would be diagnosed with a miscarriage so they would not have to get on a plane or a boat the next day to travel abroad for an abortion. |
| I have been the doctor on duty at 3am when a woman comes in bleeding heavily, crying that she is having a miscarriage, but something makes me think she has taken illegal abortion pills and stayed at home until nearly too late. Under current laws, abortion is illegal unless there is a “real and substantial” risk to her life, I won’t ask her directly in case my question risks her prosecution. I will wonder, but she may not tell. | I have been the doctor on duty at 3am when a woman comes in bleeding heavily, crying that she is having a miscarriage, but something makes me think she has taken illegal abortion pills and stayed at home until nearly too late. Under current laws, abortion is illegal unless there is a “real and substantial” risk to her life, I won’t ask her directly in case my question risks her prosecution. I will wonder, but she may not tell. |
| I am one of many doctors in many specialities who watch a woman risking her health for a pregnancy, but cannot intervene unless it is her life that is at risk. | I am one of many doctors in many specialities who watch a woman risking her health for a pregnancy, but cannot intervene unless it is her life that is at risk. |
| For many years we have thought we have shown great empathy to these women, their partners and their families. For many years they thought that we, their doctors, had abandoned them. True compassion combines empathy with action. I am proud to be one of more than 1,500 doctors who support repealing the eighth amendment. If it fails, we will continue being unable to truly care for our patients in the way they deserve. • Prof Mary Higgins is a consultant obstetrician working as a specialist in maternal foetal medicine | For many years we have thought we have shown great empathy to these women, their partners and their families. For many years they thought that we, their doctors, had abandoned them. True compassion combines empathy with action. I am proud to be one of more than 1,500 doctors who support repealing the eighth amendment. If it fails, we will continue being unable to truly care for our patients in the way they deserve. • Prof Mary Higgins is a consultant obstetrician working as a specialist in maternal foetal medicine |
| Irish abortion referendum | Irish abortion referendum |
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| Ireland | Ireland |
| Abortion | Abortion |
| Health | Health |
| Women | Women |
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