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| Mueller Positions for Trump Interview, as Lawyers Assess Risk of Investigation | |
| (about 11 hours later) | |
| WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, told President Trump’s lawyers last month that he will probably seek to interview the president, setting off discussions among Mr. Trump’s lawyers about the perils of such a move, two people familiar with the discussion said on Monday. | WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, told President Trump’s lawyers last month that he will probably seek to interview the president, setting off discussions among Mr. Trump’s lawyers about the perils of such a move, two people familiar with the discussion said on Monday. |
| No formal request has been made and no date has been set. White House officials viewed the discussion as a sign that Mr. Mueller’s investigation of Mr. Trump could be nearing the end. But even if that is so, allowing prosecutors to interview a sitting president who has a history of hyperbolic or baseless assertions carries legal risk for him. Mr. Mueller has already brought charges against four of Mr. Trump’s former aides. All face accusations of lying to the authorities. | No formal request has been made and no date has been set. White House officials viewed the discussion as a sign that Mr. Mueller’s investigation of Mr. Trump could be nearing the end. But even if that is so, allowing prosecutors to interview a sitting president who has a history of hyperbolic or baseless assertions carries legal risk for him. Mr. Mueller has already brought charges against four of Mr. Trump’s former aides. All face accusations of lying to the authorities. |
| Mr. Trump’s lawyers have long expected that Mr. Mueller would eventually ask to speak with the president. Ty Cobb, the senior White House lawyer on the case, has for months pledged full cooperation, saying Mr. Trump has nothing to hide in an investigation into whether his campaign worked with Russian operatives to try to influence the 2016 presidential election. | Mr. Trump’s lawyers have long expected that Mr. Mueller would eventually ask to speak with the president. Ty Cobb, the senior White House lawyer on the case, has for months pledged full cooperation, saying Mr. Trump has nothing to hide in an investigation into whether his campaign worked with Russian operatives to try to influence the 2016 presidential election. |
| Mr. Trump’s lawyers are expected to try to set ground rules for any interview or provide answers to written questions. If Mr. Trump were to refuse outright to cooperate, Mr. Mueller could respond with a grand jury subpoena. | Mr. Trump’s lawyers are expected to try to set ground rules for any interview or provide answers to written questions. If Mr. Trump were to refuse outright to cooperate, Mr. Mueller could respond with a grand jury subpoena. |
| The White House had no comment on the discussions about a possible interview, which were first reported by NBC News. | The White House had no comment on the discussions about a possible interview, which were first reported by NBC News. |
| One person familiar with the discussions said Mr. Mueller appeared most interested in asking questions about the former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, and the firing of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey — not the broader question of possible collusion with Russia. Those topics signal an interest in whether Mr. Trump tried to obstruct justice. The person was not authorized to talk about internal discussions and spoke on condition of anonymity. | One person familiar with the discussions said Mr. Mueller appeared most interested in asking questions about the former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, and the firing of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey — not the broader question of possible collusion with Russia. Those topics signal an interest in whether Mr. Trump tried to obstruct justice. The person was not authorized to talk about internal discussions and spoke on condition of anonymity. |
| The obstruction investigation focuses on whether Mr. Trump broke the law by asking Mr. Comey to end the investigation into Mr. Flynn and whether he fired Mr. Comey to try to hinder the F.B.I. investigation into Russia-related matters. Shortly after dismissing Mr. Comey in May, the president told Russian diplomats in an Oval Office meeting that doing so had relieved “great pressure” on him. | The obstruction investigation focuses on whether Mr. Trump broke the law by asking Mr. Comey to end the investigation into Mr. Flynn and whether he fired Mr. Comey to try to hinder the F.B.I. investigation into Russia-related matters. Shortly after dismissing Mr. Comey in May, the president told Russian diplomats in an Oval Office meeting that doing so had relieved “great pressure” on him. |
| Mr. Trump has sat for depositions before and shown discipline when under oath. His testimony in civil cases reveals a canny ability to avoid being cornered and a frank acknowledgment that he uses “truthful hyperbole” or “innocent exaggeration.” But he has never faced questioning from someone like Mr. Mueller, a veteran prosecutor and former F.B.I. director who has a dozen experienced litigators behind him. | Mr. Trump has sat for depositions before and shown discipline when under oath. His testimony in civil cases reveals a canny ability to avoid being cornered and a frank acknowledgment that he uses “truthful hyperbole” or “innocent exaggeration.” But he has never faced questioning from someone like Mr. Mueller, a veteran prosecutor and former F.B.I. director who has a dozen experienced litigators behind him. |
| And the stakes have never been higher. President Bill Clinton was impeached on a perjury charge over his grand jury testimony about his relationship with a White House intern. | And the stakes have never been higher. President Bill Clinton was impeached on a perjury charge over his grand jury testimony about his relationship with a White House intern. |
| Solomon L. Wisenberg, one of the lawyers who questioned Mr. Clinton — prompting him to famously assert that his answer depended on what the meaning of “is” is — said Mr. Mueller would probably wait until his inquiry was nearly complete to question the president. Mr. Wisenberg said that while Mr. Trump often makes statements to the public that are inflammatory or untrue, the president has shown he can be disciplined, as he has curtailed his criticisms of Mr. Mueller in recent months. | Solomon L. Wisenberg, one of the lawyers who questioned Mr. Clinton — prompting him to famously assert that his answer depended on what the meaning of “is” is — said Mr. Mueller would probably wait until his inquiry was nearly complete to question the president. Mr. Wisenberg said that while Mr. Trump often makes statements to the public that are inflammatory or untrue, the president has shown he can be disciplined, as he has curtailed his criticisms of Mr. Mueller in recent months. |
| “Trump has been on message about Mueller since Ty Cobb came in as his lawyer” in July, Mr. Wisenberg said. “It’s pretty clear when Ty Cobb came in, he tightened up the ship and had a talk with Trump and must have said: ‘You’re O.K. on collusion. Stop attacking Mueller directly.’” | “Trump has been on message about Mueller since Ty Cobb came in as his lawyer” in July, Mr. Wisenberg said. “It’s pretty clear when Ty Cobb came in, he tightened up the ship and had a talk with Trump and must have said: ‘You’re O.K. on collusion. Stop attacking Mueller directly.’” |
| Mr. Mueller will have three choices for questioning Mr. Trump: written questions, an interview with his investigators or a subpoena to appear before a grand jury. Legal experts said Mr. Mueller would almost certainly want to speak directly with Mr. Trump in person. They said Mr. Trump’s lawyers would want to prevent Mr. Mueller from putting Mr. Trump alone before a grand jury, where lawyers normally are not present. | Mr. Mueller will have three choices for questioning Mr. Trump: written questions, an interview with his investigators or a subpoena to appear before a grand jury. Legal experts said Mr. Mueller would almost certainly want to speak directly with Mr. Trump in person. They said Mr. Trump’s lawyers would want to prevent Mr. Mueller from putting Mr. Trump alone before a grand jury, where lawyers normally are not present. |
| “You want to be an active participant in the conversation,” Mr. Wisenberg said, adding that Mr. Trump’s lawyers would do all they could to show Mr. Mueller they were cooperating to prevent the special counsel from putting him before the grand jury. | “You want to be an active participant in the conversation,” Mr. Wisenberg said, adding that Mr. Trump’s lawyers would do all they could to show Mr. Mueller they were cooperating to prevent the special counsel from putting him before the grand jury. |
| Historically, presidents have been reluctant to speak with investigators looking into their conduct. During the investigation of Mr. Clinton, the independent counsel, Kenneth W. Starr, served Mr. Clinton with a grand jury subpoena as part of an effort to compel him to testify. The subpoena set off negotiations between Mr. Starr and Mr. Clinton’s lawyers, which ultimately resulted in Mr. Clinton being questioned at the White House instead of a courthouse, where nearly all grand jury appearances occur. | Historically, presidents have been reluctant to speak with investigators looking into their conduct. During the investigation of Mr. Clinton, the independent counsel, Kenneth W. Starr, served Mr. Clinton with a grand jury subpoena as part of an effort to compel him to testify. The subpoena set off negotiations between Mr. Starr and Mr. Clinton’s lawyers, which ultimately resulted in Mr. Clinton being questioned at the White House instead of a courthouse, where nearly all grand jury appearances occur. |