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| 'Chinese burn? We just say burn': comics on joking about race and immigration | 'Chinese burn? We just say burn': comics on joking about race and immigration |
| (about 5 hours later) | |
| Phil Wang has a messy relationship with the British empire. Evelyn Mok felt dirty joking about her family. Kae Kurd riffs on being a refugee. Aisha Alfa was shocked to find she had a ‘black perspective’. They talk patriotism, stereotypes and stigmas | |
| Interviews by | |
| Ben Williams | |
| Fri 15 Dec 2017 07.00 GMT | |
| Last modified on Sat 16 Dec 2017 00.11 GMT | |
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| Phil Wang | Phil Wang |
| I’m a sort of half-immigrant. I was born in Stoke, where my mum is from, but we went back to Malaysia, where my dad’s from, a week after I was born. When I was 16 I moved back to the UK and have been here since. I have a complicated relationship with the British empire but I look for what connects us. Commonwealth countries share a certain sense of humour. The empire spread self-deprecation and a self-mocking attitude across the commonwealth – as well as railroads. | I’m a sort of half-immigrant. I was born in Stoke, where my mum is from, but we went back to Malaysia, where my dad’s from, a week after I was born. When I was 16 I moved back to the UK and have been here since. I have a complicated relationship with the British empire but I look for what connects us. Commonwealth countries share a certain sense of humour. The empire spread self-deprecation and a self-mocking attitude across the commonwealth – as well as railroads. |
| On stage, just being different from what some people would expect from an east Asian person can be the same as being subversive. In the UK it’s very rare to see an east Asian person on stage. It doesn’t look right! I feel I have to address it. East Asian men are often emasculated in jokes so, for ages, I did jokes about how great I was at sex. In a way, standup allows you a right of reply that no other art form does. | On stage, just being different from what some people would expect from an east Asian person can be the same as being subversive. In the UK it’s very rare to see an east Asian person on stage. It doesn’t look right! I feel I have to address it. East Asian men are often emasculated in jokes so, for ages, I did jokes about how great I was at sex. In a way, standup allows you a right of reply that no other art form does. |
| To really appreciate how great Britain is – objectively speaking – you have to have lived in a country that doesn’t have the amenities and the rights that British people take for granted. I have a bit in my show about how great it is to be able to drink tap water. When I first moved here I couldn’t believe that you could just drink water out of a tap and not get sick. Yet people still complain. But the British sensibility has always chimed with me – that hardy, incorruptible resilience and stubbornness – and I feel patriotic about that. | To really appreciate how great Britain is – objectively speaking – you have to have lived in a country that doesn’t have the amenities and the rights that British people take for granted. I have a bit in my show about how great it is to be able to drink tap water. When I first moved here I couldn’t believe that you could just drink water out of a tap and not get sick. Yet people still complain. But the British sensibility has always chimed with me – that hardy, incorruptible resilience and stubbornness – and I feel patriotic about that. |
| I owe whatever success I have now to my uniqueness, and my uniqueness is intrinsically tied to my race. I used to talk about Chinese phrases like “Chinese whispers” and “Chinese burns” but from the perspective of a Chinese person: “We just call Chinese whispers ‘whispers’.” That kind of joke. But now that other east Asian comics are coming up I’m starting to lose my edge. That’s fine, though, because I’m running out of things to say about my heritage. I want to start talking about memes and Breitbart and … what else do people want to talk about now? | I owe whatever success I have now to my uniqueness, and my uniqueness is intrinsically tied to my race. I used to talk about Chinese phrases like “Chinese whispers” and “Chinese burns” but from the perspective of a Chinese person: “We just call Chinese whispers ‘whispers’.” That kind of joke. But now that other east Asian comics are coming up I’m starting to lose my edge. That’s fine, though, because I’m running out of things to say about my heritage. I want to start talking about memes and Breitbart and … what else do people want to talk about now? |
| Evelyn Mok | Evelyn Mok |
| My dad is from Hong Kong and moved to Sweden to work when he was 19. My mum moved to Sweden at the same age. Her grandparents were from Hubei, in the centre of China. They migrated to India during the 20s, walking all the way from Hubei to Mumbai. Apparently they didn’t know where they were going, they just starting walking. | My dad is from Hong Kong and moved to Sweden to work when he was 19. My mum moved to Sweden at the same age. Her grandparents were from Hubei, in the centre of China. They migrated to India during the 20s, walking all the way from Hubei to Mumbai. Apparently they didn’t know where they were going, they just starting walking. |
| My parents worked constantly in the restaurant business and, as I was growing up, they would always tell me to focus on my studies. On the flip side of that, because my parents worked so much, my brother and I were pretty much left to our own devices. Our grandparents would babysit us, but they would stick us in front of the TV. I would watch American sitcoms – The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Seinfeld, Friends. I remember thinking that I want to do what they do on Saturday Night Live – be funny for an audience. I didn’t really know that they were comedians. At university I discovered there was a standup scene in Sweden. Directly after I graduated I did my first gig. | My parents worked constantly in the restaurant business and, as I was growing up, they would always tell me to focus on my studies. On the flip side of that, because my parents worked so much, my brother and I were pretty much left to our own devices. Our grandparents would babysit us, but they would stick us in front of the TV. I would watch American sitcoms – The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Seinfeld, Friends. I remember thinking that I want to do what they do on Saturday Night Live – be funny for an audience. I didn’t really know that they were comedians. At university I discovered there was a standup scene in Sweden. Directly after I graduated I did my first gig. |
| When I started comedy I didn’t want to talk about being Chinese. I thought the only way to make jokes about it was to reinforce stereotypes, because those were the only jokes that I heard growing up. Chinese people are good at maths, they are martial arts experts with broken English, or they’re running laundromats and have no real depth of character, and sometimes they are portrayed in a racist way by Mickey Rooney. | When I started comedy I didn’t want to talk about being Chinese. I thought the only way to make jokes about it was to reinforce stereotypes, because those were the only jokes that I heard growing up. Chinese people are good at maths, they are martial arts experts with broken English, or they’re running laundromats and have no real depth of character, and sometimes they are portrayed in a racist way by Mickey Rooney. |
| But on stage you end up talking about what frustrates you. It has been a struggle to find a way to talk about being Chinese in a meaningful way. In my first few months of doing standup I had a joke about my parents not knowing how to pronounce “L” and “R”, and I felt really bad telling it – I felt dirty. Now, in my show, I talk about being a fetish in many different ways, because I’m Chinese, I’m plus-size and I’m sexually inexperienced. I say that I “fit into so many porn categories. I know I’m a person, I know I have worth, but when men look at me all they see is … ” and then I do an Asian accent. And that accent, in that case, is being used to my advantage to illustrate the point of being fetishised. | But on stage you end up talking about what frustrates you. It has been a struggle to find a way to talk about being Chinese in a meaningful way. In my first few months of doing standup I had a joke about my parents not knowing how to pronounce “L” and “R”, and I felt really bad telling it – I felt dirty. Now, in my show, I talk about being a fetish in many different ways, because I’m Chinese, I’m plus-size and I’m sexually inexperienced. I say that I “fit into so many porn categories. I know I’m a person, I know I have worth, but when men look at me all they see is … ” and then I do an Asian accent. And that accent, in that case, is being used to my advantage to illustrate the point of being fetishised. |
| I have realised recently that I want to tell my parents’ story, because I don’t see that story in the mainstream. In a way it’s to seek their approval, but it is also to make them proud. Because my parents’ story is my story too, it has influenced me, my life and the person that I am. It has coloured everything. | I have realised recently that I want to tell my parents’ story, because I don’t see that story in the mainstream. In a way it’s to seek their approval, but it is also to make them proud. Because my parents’ story is my story too, it has influenced me, my life and the person that I am. It has coloured everything. |
| Kae Kurd | Kae Kurd |
| My parents are from the Kurdish region of Iraq. In the 80s my dad was a freedom fighter, part of the armed resistance, fighting Saddam Hussein’s regime. My mum, also part of the resistance, married my dad and joined him in the mountains. | My parents are from the Kurdish region of Iraq. In the 80s my dad was a freedom fighter, part of the armed resistance, fighting Saddam Hussein’s regime. My mum, also part of the resistance, married my dad and joined him in the mountains. |
| Once the resistance collapsed, my parents had to flee to the Kurdish cities in Iran. My dad had mustard gas poisoning from fighting in battle and, at the time, in 1990, the British government was taking political refugees. So, when I was six months old, we ended up being flown to Gatwick – a whole plane full of Iraqi Kurds – and settled in Brixton, south London. Everybody else eventually branched off, but my dad went, “Nah, I don’t mind it here in Brixton.” | Once the resistance collapsed, my parents had to flee to the Kurdish cities in Iran. My dad had mustard gas poisoning from fighting in battle and, at the time, in 1990, the British government was taking political refugees. So, when I was six months old, we ended up being flown to Gatwick – a whole plane full of Iraqi Kurds – and settled in Brixton, south London. Everybody else eventually branched off, but my dad went, “Nah, I don’t mind it here in Brixton.” |
| My parents probably still think comedy is a phase. They hated the idea at first, but they have begun to accept it. Standup, as a career, has to work – otherwise I’m a failure, they’ve wasted their efforts. When my dad was my age he was running at tanks with an AK-47 in his hands. The whole concept of telling jokes is mind-boggling to them. | My parents probably still think comedy is a phase. They hated the idea at first, but they have begun to accept it. Standup, as a career, has to work – otherwise I’m a failure, they’ve wasted their efforts. When my dad was my age he was running at tanks with an AK-47 in his hands. The whole concept of telling jokes is mind-boggling to them. |
| My parents gave me a massive understanding of my culture and my identity. I’m aware that, even without wanting to, I will always be seen as a representative of Kurdish people via my work. I can’t hide from that. For a lot of people, I’m probably one of their first encounters with a Kurdish person. So I have a responsibility not to mock my culture just for laughs. | My parents gave me a massive understanding of my culture and my identity. I’m aware that, even without wanting to, I will always be seen as a representative of Kurdish people via my work. I can’t hide from that. For a lot of people, I’m probably one of their first encounters with a Kurdish person. So I have a responsibility not to mock my culture just for laughs. |
| This year I took my debut solo show to the Edinburgh fringe, and I thought it was important to share my experiences. I had routines about why refugees come to the UK, the stigma they face and why that’s nonsensical. I also had routines about activism shaped from my parents’ experiences. | This year I took my debut solo show to the Edinburgh fringe, and I thought it was important to share my experiences. I had routines about why refugees come to the UK, the stigma they face and why that’s nonsensical. I also had routines about activism shaped from my parents’ experiences. |
| You get a lot of white comedians saying, ‘Oh, ethnic minority comedians, they only bang on about being an ethnic minority,’ without realising that they’re talking about being a white person. I’ve had a different upbringing, and I have to allude to that all the time. But it also makes my standup unique, and means I have a refreshing perspective – or at least I hope it does. | You get a lot of white comedians saying, ‘Oh, ethnic minority comedians, they only bang on about being an ethnic minority,’ without realising that they’re talking about being a white person. I’ve had a different upbringing, and I have to allude to that all the time. But it also makes my standup unique, and means I have a refreshing perspective – or at least I hope it does. |
| Aisha Alfa | Aisha Alfa |
| My mum is from a farming community of 190 people in Manitoba, Canada. My father is from Nigeria. They got married six months after they met in Manitoba, finished university there and moved to Nigeria. My mum is a very pale white woman with blond hair. When she went to Nigeria in the 70s, kids would follow her to the market because they thought she was a ghost. I was born in Nigeria and when I was two we moved back to Canada. | My mum is from a farming community of 190 people in Manitoba, Canada. My father is from Nigeria. They got married six months after they met in Manitoba, finished university there and moved to Nigeria. My mum is a very pale white woman with blond hair. When she went to Nigeria in the 70s, kids would follow her to the market because they thought she was a ghost. I was born in Nigeria and when I was two we moved back to Canada. |
| Everywhere I’ve been I’ve felt like an outsider. To be a mixed kid from an immigrant family, a biracial family, and a woman … it’s an interesting mix. As performers, our job is to bring a unique perspective to the stage. When I came to the States, people went, “Oh, you’re black, you have a black perspective.” I don’t really think that I do. In Canada they go, “Oh, you have an immigrant family perspective.” But I don’t even have that, because my mum is Canadian. I’m at an interesting moment in my career where I’m really looking at it: what is my real perspective? What is my point of view? What’s different about me that I can bring and make relatable to everyone? | Everywhere I’ve been I’ve felt like an outsider. To be a mixed kid from an immigrant family, a biracial family, and a woman … it’s an interesting mix. As performers, our job is to bring a unique perspective to the stage. When I came to the States, people went, “Oh, you’re black, you have a black perspective.” I don’t really think that I do. In Canada they go, “Oh, you have an immigrant family perspective.” But I don’t even have that, because my mum is Canadian. I’m at an interesting moment in my career where I’m really looking at it: what is my real perspective? What is my point of view? What’s different about me that I can bring and make relatable to everyone? |
| Recently on stage I’ve been talking about being considered a black woman in the US. In Canada I’d be considered “mixed”, but in America it’s: “You’re black, that’s the team you’re on, you’re part of team black.” I’ve instantly joined this new identity but I don’t have the background or know the struggle – I feel like an impostor. Even things like hair – I’m learning so much about my own hair. I started going natural a couple of years ago. People say: “Oh you just have to wrap it at night and go to sleep”. And I’m like: “Right, yeah, wrap your hair!” But really I’m thinking: what the hell does that mean? I’m researching stuff because I’m too embarrassed to say I don’t know these things. | Recently on stage I’ve been talking about being considered a black woman in the US. In Canada I’d be considered “mixed”, but in America it’s: “You’re black, that’s the team you’re on, you’re part of team black.” I’ve instantly joined this new identity but I don’t have the background or know the struggle – I feel like an impostor. Even things like hair – I’m learning so much about my own hair. I started going natural a couple of years ago. People say: “Oh you just have to wrap it at night and go to sleep”. And I’m like: “Right, yeah, wrap your hair!” But really I’m thinking: what the hell does that mean? I’m researching stuff because I’m too embarrassed to say I don’t know these things. |
| My parents sacrificed so much and my brother and I have reaped the rewards of that. I joke about them being disappointed, but really they’re very supportive of the choices I’ve made. My dad is a quiet, pensive man – he’s like Morgan Freeman’s cousin. He came to one of my shows, and I did a joke about when someone asked me about his dick – which is ridiculous. He laughed out loud, and was turning around to people saying: “I’m her father! That’s me! I’m the penis she’s talking about!” | My parents sacrificed so much and my brother and I have reaped the rewards of that. I joke about them being disappointed, but really they’re very supportive of the choices I’ve made. My dad is a quiet, pensive man – he’s like Morgan Freeman’s cousin. He came to one of my shows, and I did a joke about when someone asked me about his dick – which is ridiculous. He laughed out loud, and was turning around to people saying: “I’m her father! That’s me! I’m the penis she’s talking about!” |
| • Phil Wang is on a UK tour until 11 March. Evelyn Mok is at Soho theatre, London W1D, 5-7 February. Follow Kae Kurd on Twitter @KaeKurd. Aisha Alfa stars in The Beaverton on the Comedy Network in Canada. | • Phil Wang is on a UK tour until 11 March. Evelyn Mok is at Soho theatre, London W1D, 5-7 February. Follow Kae Kurd on Twitter @KaeKurd. Aisha Alfa stars in The Beaverton on the Comedy Network in Canada. |
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| Immigration and asylum | |
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