This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/can-the-forsdick-family-and-britain-unite-after-the-brexit-saga
The article has changed 6 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 2 | Version 3 |
|---|---|
| Can the Forsdick family and Britain unite after the Brexit saga? | Can the Forsdick family and Britain unite after the Brexit saga? |
| (about 20 hours later) | |
| Letters | |
| Tue 14 Nov 2017 18.25 GMT | |
| Last modified on Mon 27 Nov 2017 13.46 GMT | |
| Share on Facebook | |
| Share on Twitter | |
| Share via Email | |
| View more sharing options | |
| Share on LinkedIn | |
| Share on Pinterest | |
| Share on Google+ | |
| Share on WhatsApp | |
| Share on Messenger | |
| Close | |
| We are pleased to see that our grandad, like many, has finally woken up to the logical impossibility of Brexit (Letters, 13 November). He is right to highlight the failings of our economics and politics of the last 25 years, the consequences of which our generation will have to live with; and his belated recognition of the impossibility of a good Brexit is welcome. But it is not remainers who need to apologise – it is the rightwing ideologues and their friends in the press who have vilified Europe and championed neoliberalism, and who have led this country down the disastrous path it is now on. | We are pleased to see that our grandad, like many, has finally woken up to the logical impossibility of Brexit (Letters, 13 November). He is right to highlight the failings of our economics and politics of the last 25 years, the consequences of which our generation will have to live with; and his belated recognition of the impossibility of a good Brexit is welcome. But it is not remainers who need to apologise – it is the rightwing ideologues and their friends in the press who have vilified Europe and championed neoliberalism, and who have led this country down the disastrous path it is now on. |
| Those who voted for Brexit are not to blame as they were misinformed or believed it was for the best, but it’s time they realised their mistakes and acted accordingly. The need for an apology should not be put on remain politicians’ shoulders. While the last government did leave the poor behind in their policies and actions, in opposing Brexit they were acting for the safety and prosperity of the future generation. Our generation do not want a hard Brexit, or any Brexit. Maybe this is a chance to learn and as a country become more united, informed and equal.Elspeth (16) and Tom (14) ForsdickSevenoaks, Kent | Those who voted for Brexit are not to blame as they were misinformed or believed it was for the best, but it’s time they realised their mistakes and acted accordingly. The need for an apology should not be put on remain politicians’ shoulders. While the last government did leave the poor behind in their policies and actions, in opposing Brexit they were acting for the safety and prosperity of the future generation. Our generation do not want a hard Brexit, or any Brexit. Maybe this is a chance to learn and as a country become more united, informed and equal.Elspeth (16) and Tom (14) ForsdickSevenoaks, Kent |
| • The response (Letters, 14 November) to my letter on Monday from pure remainers has been predictably contemptuous and superior. But if you really want “exit from Brexit” to succeed you need a clear 55/45 lead in opinion polls, and soon. To do this you need to build a coalition of the 48% remainers plus a seventh of the 52% leave voters. That’s a big ask. So a change of tone is not an option; it’s essential.Brian ForsdickWalton on Thames, Surrey | • The response (Letters, 14 November) to my letter on Monday from pure remainers has been predictably contemptuous and superior. But if you really want “exit from Brexit” to succeed you need a clear 55/45 lead in opinion polls, and soon. To do this you need to build a coalition of the 48% remainers plus a seventh of the 52% leave voters. That’s a big ask. So a change of tone is not an option; it’s essential.Brian ForsdickWalton on Thames, Surrey |
| • Brian Forsdick confuses two issues, just as many leavers did in the referendum. Our membership of the EU has been democratically moderated since its inception, through the structure of the EU, which allows both governments and individuals (through MEPs) to influence decisions. We have not been dragged into anything we could not influence democratically. | • Brian Forsdick confuses two issues, just as many leavers did in the referendum. Our membership of the EU has been democratically moderated since its inception, through the structure of the EU, which allows both governments and individuals (through MEPs) to influence decisions. We have not been dragged into anything we could not influence democratically. |
| The havoc that austerity has wreaked in our social fabric and among our most deprived communities and individuals was the choice of a Conservative government and has nothing to do with the EU. The leave campaign deliberately confused the two issues, threw in a rich dash of xenophobia (“70 million coming soon” was the message in Shropshire) and targeted the uncertain with mendacious messages. Now who should apologise?Andrew BannermanShrewsbury | The havoc that austerity has wreaked in our social fabric and among our most deprived communities and individuals was the choice of a Conservative government and has nothing to do with the EU. The leave campaign deliberately confused the two issues, threw in a rich dash of xenophobia (“70 million coming soon” was the message in Shropshire) and targeted the uncertain with mendacious messages. Now who should apologise?Andrew BannermanShrewsbury |
| • Guill Gil (Letters, 14 November) needs to learn that you do not change people’s minds by insulting them. To suggest that Brexiters are uniformly xenophobic, isolationist and exceptionalist without a scintilla of evidence is to indulge in the very behaviour that he ascribes to them. As it happens, there were people who voted leave due to a loss of confidence in the EU’s ability to deliver a just and prosperous society for all – among examples of this are the shameful treatment of the government and people of Greece, global trade deals effectively removing citizens’ protections from the worst excesses of global capitalism, the effective outlawing of public ownership, and the refusal to engage with a refugee problem that is only likely to worsen. I fail to see any xenophobia, isolationism or exceptionalism in such concerns; more a calling of the EU and its supporters to examine their record more closely. By the way, I was a reluctant remainer.Ian MacKillopIlminster, Somerset | • Guill Gil (Letters, 14 November) needs to learn that you do not change people’s minds by insulting them. To suggest that Brexiters are uniformly xenophobic, isolationist and exceptionalist without a scintilla of evidence is to indulge in the very behaviour that he ascribes to them. As it happens, there were people who voted leave due to a loss of confidence in the EU’s ability to deliver a just and prosperous society for all – among examples of this are the shameful treatment of the government and people of Greece, global trade deals effectively removing citizens’ protections from the worst excesses of global capitalism, the effective outlawing of public ownership, and the refusal to engage with a refugee problem that is only likely to worsen. I fail to see any xenophobia, isolationism or exceptionalism in such concerns; more a calling of the EU and its supporters to examine their record more closely. By the way, I was a reluctant remainer.Ian MacKillopIlminster, Somerset |
| • As an angry remainer I have no intention of apologising to Brian Forsdick or any other angry leaver. Good jobs and more equal incomes did not disappear on account of Europe. The rot was hatched in Chicago, not Brussels. Germany is in the EU and the euro. It knocks spots off us in things like balance of payments, productivity, equality and social security. Mr Forsdick and his leaver friends owe us an apology for believing everything they read in the rightwing press and being too lazy to bother to inform themselves.David RedshawGravesend, Kent | • As an angry remainer I have no intention of apologising to Brian Forsdick or any other angry leaver. Good jobs and more equal incomes did not disappear on account of Europe. The rot was hatched in Chicago, not Brussels. Germany is in the EU and the euro. It knocks spots off us in things like balance of payments, productivity, equality and social security. Mr Forsdick and his leaver friends owe us an apology for believing everything they read in the rightwing press and being too lazy to bother to inform themselves.David RedshawGravesend, Kent |
| • Brian Forsdick’s argument that remainers need to apologise to Brexit supporters like him appears to be: “I shot myself in the foot by voting for Brexit and unless you say sorry I’m going to shoot myself in the head next, so there.” He and those like him need to get over their anger, recognise that by lashing out and voting for Brexit they have done untold harm to themselves and others, and try to do something positive to repair the damage.Ian SimpsonLondon | • Brian Forsdick’s argument that remainers need to apologise to Brexit supporters like him appears to be: “I shot myself in the foot by voting for Brexit and unless you say sorry I’m going to shoot myself in the head next, so there.” He and those like him need to get over their anger, recognise that by lashing out and voting for Brexit they have done untold harm to themselves and others, and try to do something positive to repair the damage.Ian SimpsonLondon |
| • It wasn’t the poor who voted leave, because the poor rarely vote; it was those disenchanted with the modern world and how it had passed them by. They were in essence nostalgic for past times and their comforting reassurances. They wished to turn their backs on the 21st century and the way in which it was unfolding. They rejected the social, cultural and economic changes that the “liberal elite” had engineered. They became silent luddites waiting for their chance to throw a spanner in the works. And it came. | • It wasn’t the poor who voted leave, because the poor rarely vote; it was those disenchanted with the modern world and how it had passed them by. They were in essence nostalgic for past times and their comforting reassurances. They wished to turn their backs on the 21st century and the way in which it was unfolding. They rejected the social, cultural and economic changes that the “liberal elite” had engineered. They became silent luddites waiting for their chance to throw a spanner in the works. And it came. |
| Unlike Mr Forsdick, I see no reason why a remainer should pander to the angry, self-righteous indignation of these so-called bloody-minded Brexiters. Like the luddites of old, those who wish to smash the machinery of the future need to be dragged into the modern age, with all its warts and worries. If this does not happen then our nation’s decline will be hastened, and it will be the young and the poor who will suffer most.Nigel GriffinTaunton, Somerset | Unlike Mr Forsdick, I see no reason why a remainer should pander to the angry, self-righteous indignation of these so-called bloody-minded Brexiters. Like the luddites of old, those who wish to smash the machinery of the future need to be dragged into the modern age, with all its warts and worries. If this does not happen then our nation’s decline will be hastened, and it will be the young and the poor who will suffer most.Nigel GriffinTaunton, Somerset |
| • Only one apology is required: “I am sorry to have been so intolerant of views I do not share. Yes, remainers have the right to be apprehensive about our economic future, and dismayed that we are leaving a project that has brought peace to Europe over many decades. Yes, leavers have the right to worry about the structure and direction of the EU, and to resent the huge democratic distance between its institutions and its citizens. Yes, the UK is culturally and ideologically unsuited to a closer union. Yes, there is no right answer. In essence, we have a choice between ideology taking us out of the EU, and pragmatic economics keeping us in. If I try really hard, I can almost see the viewpoint of all the people I oppose. And yes, I agree that somehow, sometime soon, we must learn to live with each other, once again.”Adrian BaskervilleSoberton, Hampshire | • Only one apology is required: “I am sorry to have been so intolerant of views I do not share. Yes, remainers have the right to be apprehensive about our economic future, and dismayed that we are leaving a project that has brought peace to Europe over many decades. Yes, leavers have the right to worry about the structure and direction of the EU, and to resent the huge democratic distance between its institutions and its citizens. Yes, the UK is culturally and ideologically unsuited to a closer union. Yes, there is no right answer. In essence, we have a choice between ideology taking us out of the EU, and pragmatic economics keeping us in. If I try really hard, I can almost see the viewpoint of all the people I oppose. And yes, I agree that somehow, sometime soon, we must learn to live with each other, once again.”Adrian BaskervilleSoberton, Hampshire |
| • Mr Forsdick’s suggested apology and climbdown by opponents to Brexit is no more likely to happen than a similar climbdown from Brexiteers. Whatever else it hadn’t planned for, the government should have thought about how they would hold the country together if the referendum delivered a small majority.Mike BrownNewcastle upon Tyne | • Mr Forsdick’s suggested apology and climbdown by opponents to Brexit is no more likely to happen than a similar climbdown from Brexiteers. Whatever else it hadn’t planned for, the government should have thought about how they would hold the country together if the referendum delivered a small majority.Mike BrownNewcastle upon Tyne |
| More letters from today’s Brexit special: | More letters from today’s Brexit special: |
| • Time for parliament to take back control of hamstrung Brexit negotiations | • Time for parliament to take back control of hamstrung Brexit negotiations |
| • Free movement of people raises real concerns | • Free movement of people raises real concerns |
| • Chris Haskins: Let’s have a cabinet of all the Brexiteer talents | • Chris Haskins: Let’s have a cabinet of all the Brexiteer talents |
| • Peaceful coexistence is better than punching above our weight | • Peaceful coexistence is better than punching above our weight |
| • Hold ministers’ feet to the fire over final Brexit deal | • Hold ministers’ feet to the fire over final Brexit deal |
| • Join the debate – email guardian.letters@theguardian.com | • Join the debate – email guardian.letters@theguardian.com |
| Brexit | |
| European Union | |
| Foreign policy | |
| letters | |
| Share on Facebook | |
| Share on Twitter | |
| Share via Email | |
| Share on LinkedIn | |
| Share on Pinterest | |
| Share on Google+ | |
| Share on WhatsApp | |
| Share on Messenger | |
| Reuse this content |