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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/06/economically-illiterate-readers-on-proposals-to-deter-eu-immigrants
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| Version 1 | Version 2 |
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| 'Economically illiterate': readers on proposals to deter EU immigrants | 'Economically illiterate': readers on proposals to deter EU immigrants |
| (2 days later) | |
| A leaked Home Office document passed to the Guardian gives some official thinking on how Theresa May’s government might “take back control” of EU immigration. | A leaked Home Office document passed to the Guardian gives some official thinking on how Theresa May’s government might “take back control” of EU immigration. |
| May told PMQs that the UK would still welcome “the brightest and best”, but the detailed proposals, if implimented, would see all but high-skilled EU workers lose their right to free movement. | May told PMQs that the UK would still welcome “the brightest and best”, but the detailed proposals, if implimented, would see all but high-skilled EU workers lose their right to free movement. |
| Our readers share their reactions to the proposals below. | Our readers share their reactions to the proposals below. |
| It will take years to build up a skilled workforce | It will take years to build up a skilled workforce |
| The same applies to me: classed as highly skilled, been here since 1993 and married to a British citizen. Working on a plan to move to Germany: we won't rush things. Planning to test the waters for 3 months to see what it is like these days. | The same applies to me: classed as highly skilled, been here since 1993 and married to a British citizen. Working on a plan to move to Germany: we won't rush things. Planning to test the waters for 3 months to see what it is like these days. |
| The elephant in the room with this proposal is whether any high-skilled workers will still want to come to the UK and that it will take years to build up a local skilled workforce. | The elephant in the room with this proposal is whether any high-skilled workers will still want to come to the UK and that it will take years to build up a local skilled workforce. |
| The UK cannot be trusted | The UK cannot be trusted |
| Good morning. | Good morning. |
| So now we know why the government wanted trade talks in parallel with A50 talks. | So now we know why the government wanted trade talks in parallel with A50 talks. |
| They hoped to secure the basis of a trade deal and in conjunction, difficult for EU to renege once plans were revealed to manage immigration of EU citizens. | They hoped to secure the basis of a trade deal and in conjunction, difficult for EU to renege once plans were revealed to manage immigration of EU citizens. |
| This will raise the stakes even higher for Theresa May's planned speech on 21st September. I think we can make a guess at its contents. | This will raise the stakes even higher for Theresa May's planned speech on 21st September. I think we can make a guess at its contents. |
| One thing worth mentioning is that Japan's PM requested UK take necessary steps to ensure the nation's investments in UK were protected - i.e. please stay in single market. | One thing worth mentioning is that Japan's PM requested UK take necessary steps to ensure the nation's investments in UK were protected - i.e. please stay in single market. |
| So despite her eagerness to obtain a 'copy and paste' agreement. The Home Office document makes it clear that May had no intention of doing so. I wonder what the Japanese think of this now. | So despite her eagerness to obtain a 'copy and paste' agreement. The Home Office document makes it clear that May had no intention of doing so. I wonder what the Japanese think of this now. |
| The lesson here is whether you're Japan, EU-27, or Iceland and EFTA, the UK cannot be trusted at face value. | The lesson here is whether you're Japan, EU-27, or Iceland and EFTA, the UK cannot be trusted at face value. |
| ‘The mindset is making me feel so sad’ | ‘The mindset is making me feel so sad’ |
| As a EU citizen who has been living and working here as a scientist since 2003, who is married to an English woman with two children born here, the mindset of the country and the current government is making me feeling so sad. | As a EU citizen who has been living and working here as a scientist since 2003, who is married to an English woman with two children born here, the mindset of the country and the current government is making me feeling so sad. |
| The paper could be difficult for Labour | The paper could be difficult for Labour |
| Home Office Government leak might be another case of how to flush out Labour Party as not respecting the result of EU Referendum by jumping up & down in reaction to what, at first glance, appears to be a pretty mean spirited approach to EU citizens wanting to come to UK to work. I am sure most of them have got the message they are not welcome, including those who have already settled here under existing rules. This preliminary document merely confirms it. Labour would be wise to study closely & defer judgement for time being. EU negotiators might have more pertinent reaction at this time.This approach will play well with Brexiters & May hopes it will revive her political fortunes as she is seen to be addressing issue of immigration in uncompromising way. It will take some time to judge how this restrictive immigration policy affects UK economy, particularly sectors like NHS, Social Care, Agriculture , food processing, construction, & not least cleaning - an army of invisible workers keeping office blocks, hospitals, hotels, restaurants, schools, clean for very low pay. | Home Office Government leak might be another case of how to flush out Labour Party as not respecting the result of EU Referendum by jumping up & down in reaction to what, at first glance, appears to be a pretty mean spirited approach to EU citizens wanting to come to UK to work. I am sure most of them have got the message they are not welcome, including those who have already settled here under existing rules. This preliminary document merely confirms it. Labour would be wise to study closely & defer judgement for time being. EU negotiators might have more pertinent reaction at this time.This approach will play well with Brexiters & May hopes it will revive her political fortunes as she is seen to be addressing issue of immigration in uncompromising way. It will take some time to judge how this restrictive immigration policy affects UK economy, particularly sectors like NHS, Social Care, Agriculture , food processing, construction, & not least cleaning - an army of invisible workers keeping office blocks, hospitals, hotels, restaurants, schools, clean for very low pay. |
| No-one is standing up for low-skilled workers | No-one is standing up for low-skilled workers |
| Slashing low-skilled labour is the easiest way for Tories to gain political capital as there's no political force to speak up/defend the interests of low skilled foreign workers. If you smash austerity on the English working class, Lab (for better or worse) will stand up. Hurt the better-off middle class, Lib Dem and some Tory will stand up. Even the Greens can put up a cheerful, yet limited fight when needed. However, given that that the 'low skill' have no cultural capital in the UK, there's no political arm to do the fighting for them. Most can't vote, some can't speak the language and so on. And they won't fight back, rather just leave or accept whatever restrictions will be forced on them as it's better than nothing. | Slashing low-skilled labour is the easiest way for Tories to gain political capital as there's no political force to speak up/defend the interests of low skilled foreign workers. If you smash austerity on the English working class, Lab (for better or worse) will stand up. Hurt the better-off middle class, Lib Dem and some Tory will stand up. Even the Greens can put up a cheerful, yet limited fight when needed. However, given that that the 'low skill' have no cultural capital in the UK, there's no political arm to do the fighting for them. Most can't vote, some can't speak the language and so on. And they won't fight back, rather just leave or accept whatever restrictions will be forced on them as it's better than nothing. |
| This will kill our tourism industry | This will kill our tourism industry |
| Anyone understand the thinking behind this proposal that EU nationals will not be allowed to enter the UK with identity cards and will be obliged to present a passport ? | Anyone understand the thinking behind this proposal that EU nationals will not be allowed to enter the UK with identity cards and will be obliged to present a passport ? |
| Sounds like a sure way of killing off the UK tourist industry ! So my French children willneed to buy passports to visit their English grandmother ? | Sounds like a sure way of killing off the UK tourist industry ! So my French children willneed to buy passports to visit their English grandmother ? |
| I don't know for other European countries but here in France most people never bother getting a passport (cost 86 euros) unless they are planning on travelling outside the EU. An identity card is free. | I don't know for other European countries but here in France most people never bother getting a passport (cost 86 euros) unless they are planning on travelling outside the EU. An identity card is free. |
| These proposals disgrace the country | These proposals disgrace the country |
| These proposals disgrace the country and will also unnecessarily antagonise our partners. Part of the Brexit policy to make us all individually and through the bankrupting of the tax funded public services, poorer. And what will be the practical impact. Have they told us which categories of workers will be excluded? In reality we are crippling ourselves economically and morally to exclude the hand wash people currently working in car parks. Yes immigration will go down, but because nurses, care workers etc will choose not to come....they are already leaving. And its democracy....innit! | These proposals disgrace the country and will also unnecessarily antagonise our partners. Part of the Brexit policy to make us all individually and through the bankrupting of the tax funded public services, poorer. And what will be the practical impact. Have they told us which categories of workers will be excluded? In reality we are crippling ourselves economically and morally to exclude the hand wash people currently working in car parks. Yes immigration will go down, but because nurses, care workers etc will choose not to come....they are already leaving. And its democracy....innit! |
| Public perception is more important than facts | Public perception is more important than facts |
| The very first page of the document is extremely telling, in my view: it focuses on the *public perception of* the downsides of immigration -- it's very, very careful not to mention any actual disadvantages that would have the inconvenient feature of being subject to critical scrutiny and fact-checking. | The very first page of the document is extremely telling, in my view: it focuses on the *public perception of* the downsides of immigration -- it's very, very careful not to mention any actual disadvantages that would have the inconvenient feature of being subject to critical scrutiny and fact-checking. |
| EU citizens are not some generic ‘other’ | EU citizens are not some generic ‘other’ |
| It is now a thing for me to get culture shock by being in my own country - I don't recognise England anymore. Nostalgia for a green and pleasant land is one thing, but the land remembered by those is long gone; a quaint picture postcard from the pre-1950 era now built over, fracked, urbanised and gentrified for the rich and the foreign owners and the fatcat landlords. | It is now a thing for me to get culture shock by being in my own country - I don't recognise England anymore. Nostalgia for a green and pleasant land is one thing, but the land remembered by those is long gone; a quaint picture postcard from the pre-1950 era now built over, fracked, urbanised and gentrified for the rich and the foreign owners and the fatcat landlords. |
| What we have now is reliant on EU workers (ie: European people who we know, are friends, have children in schools, and who shouldn't be reduced to some generic 'other'), in the NHS, in the public sector, as scientists, in every sector of our economy. To raise a drawbridge to them now and deny them rights will only rebound against us ten fold. This is quite simply xenophobia masquerading as Little Englander Nationalism. | What we have now is reliant on EU workers (ie: European people who we know, are friends, have children in schools, and who shouldn't be reduced to some generic 'other'), in the NHS, in the public sector, as scientists, in every sector of our economy. To raise a drawbridge to them now and deny them rights will only rebound against us ten fold. This is quite simply xenophobia masquerading as Little Englander Nationalism. |
| This is economically illiterate | This is economically illiterate |
| It's as if these so called low skilled jobs are not offered to British nationals. The simple fact is that they are not applying for them, a good example is in social care, British people just do not want to do vast amount of caring jobs, so who will do them if eu nationals are forced out? Who will care for your parents and grandparents etc? It is, as has been stated, economically illiterate. Madness and mindless. We absolute need to encourage migrants as we have not the requisite workforce. | It's as if these so called low skilled jobs are not offered to British nationals. The simple fact is that they are not applying for them, a good example is in social care, British people just do not want to do vast amount of caring jobs, so who will do them if eu nationals are forced out? Who will care for your parents and grandparents etc? It is, as has been stated, economically illiterate. Madness and mindless. We absolute need to encourage migrants as we have not the requisite workforce. |